Playfighting going too far

[secunda]

DP has always said that he would stop if he was doing something sex-wise that I didn't like, and this is generally true. However, he doesn't seem to realise that it's just as important with playfighting. A few times now, he has got carried away playfighting (wrestling, tickling, biting) and not stopped despite me yelling at him. He only stops when I burst into tears out of frustration. But then he feels so bad afterwards that it really casts a shadow, sometimes for days, and I end up being the one feeling guilty. Recently he criticised me for 'having a go' about it, I think he felt I was overreacting, even though I tried to explain patiently that he probably didn't realise his own strength, etc. It feels like I am being 'punished' for saying something.

It really bothered me for a couple of weeks afterwards, and brought back the anxiety I suffer from sometimes. I also wondered a bit whether it was my fault, as I have let him know that I quite like him to take control in sex, although I NEVER say no when I don't mean it, so I don't see the need for a safe word or anything.

He always says it won't happen again, but sooner or later it does. He is very lovely in all other ways.

Grace, that's unbelievably vile, especially as my DD is very petite .

How does your friend know this?

I am a size 6 and little

I don't think he feels like that, I think my size makes him feel protective. I hope. That's horrible though

It is vile. He's a sporty, rugby type (and so is his wife!) who has a phD in psychology. I did once run this past a therapist, who said she wouldn't have put it quite the same way but he's right in that physical & sexual cruelty are powerful drivers for sadistic men. Of course, when she said that I went "oh, well, I know that ..." Ed's imagery certainly made the more impactful point.

Mal, I should imagine your DD will be able to spot an abuser before he's got the first round in!

Amy, im horrified at your other post on parenting. He pinches her bottom and gets into bed with her ? She complains yet he takes no notice and you sit idly by wondering if you should let her deal with it ?

NOBODY has the right to touch her in a way that she doesnt like, and that includes your husband. Your family needs serious help, and worse i think you know whats going on really.

Amy and Secunda, I am very worried about you both.

Please don't sweep any of this under the carpet, please do something to stop it in it's tracks now, today.

What can we do to help either of you?

I'm wondering if amy has retreated to think about things. She might be in a state of shock or denial, although the nature of her posts on the other thread - a bit of revealing by stealth, really, as people initially said things sounded OK, made me wonder if she has been wondering about this for some time.

I imagine you could wonder about it for a long, long time before actually facing it. I know some mothers are just brilliant at spotting the signs & taking instant action - but, for most, it's thinking the unthinkable isn't it? If she's already trying not to believe her partner abuses her, it must take a heck of a lot of courage to look at the facts objectively.

My mother's asked me, quite a few times, if Dad sexually abused me. Each time, she's added: "Because I couldn't stand it if you said yes!" Amy is already a better woman than my mum, because she's listening.

I am going to try and be clearer about things. But it gets to the point where I don't want to object because if I do and he doesn't listen it makes me feel weaker than if I had just said nothing, because at least then I can pretend that he would have stopped. I think it is my issues more than his tbh. I don't think he is a sadist, certainly nowhere near the level of amylyons' husband. But it is something I will be on the lookout for more in future. Going to try being completely vanilla for a bit and see how it goes.

"But it gets to the point where I don't want to object because if I do and he doesn't listen it makes me feel weaker than if I had just said nothing, because at least then I can pretend that he would have stopped"

Secunda, please re-read this and take on board that this is just not ok.

If he doesn't stop when you ask him to then you have to accept that he is abusing you.

I agree with 1foot, that's really not healthy or safe for you.

Im literally horrified at some of these posts .And all this bollocks about playfighting is actually physical violence dressed up as playing.

The excuses are ridiculous, hes bigger than me so he doesnt realise, he doesnt know his own strength ect, bollocks.

Are any of these men playfighting like this with other men ? No, cos they would get a beating for it.

I once dated someone who i thought to be a nice guy. There was an attempt at tickling that i really dont like , and i said so, quite clearly.
Que 2 more attempts to tickle and he was old news within minuites. If someone cant respect my boundaries they can fuck off , im not going to sit for hours explaing why i dont like it, i just dont.

Ive noticed this sort of crap often starts off as playfull tickling or poking , its a pushing of physical limits and comfort.
Twats.

Secunda, lovely, what issues of yours do you think are creating this problem?

Playfighting is supposed to be funny for both people, yes? Like pulling a flipflop off and yelling "Hooray, you brought me a spanky tool, thank you honey!" then chasing them around with it? Or pretending their pores are sprouting tiny chickens which need to be caught with pinchy/tickly fingers? Or to throw cake in their hair or catch them and put it in their pants - only in a showerable situation, of course...(Is it only me and my boyfriend who are this childish?)

My point is, it's supposed to induce much joy and mirth and fake outrage And "Ohhhh how dare you!"

When play fighting has to be stopped with crying, shouting or serious talks, it's not playful, it's bullying.

oh you were the woman who has had boundry issues between your daughter and her horrible father... I see.

In ALL seriousness, I would have a big talk with your daughter, assuring her that nothing bad will come of anything she tells you.

Ugh, both these threads are dredging up horrible things for me.

My father 'playfought' with my mother, all the things you said, like tickling, squeezing, etc goiung too far, and then it being her fault that she made him feel like a bastard.
He did it with us as well.

Little did my mum know that he was also beating us up regularly whenever she went out and the playfights were him covering the bruises. We were so scared of him we didn't ever tell her as children.

Both of you need to get tf out of these relationships.

"what issues of yours do you think are creating this problem?"

I don't know. It's rare that it happens, only 4 times in 2 years. He is always really sorry afterwards. He treats me really really well the rest of the time, no other markers of abuse at all. I don't know if it's my issues or not. Surely if I say stop or no, he should accept that. Maybe it is just that there is a few seconds between me saying no, stop, and him actually stopping and it just feels like longer. Something just snaps and I feel like it's not him. But it's probably just my mind doing it. Except the time when he did it twice in about 20 mins, that made me really angry because it was OBVIOUSLY a stupid thing to do. I think he was trying to make a joke out of it. It was after that that I got anxious for a couple of weeks, and had the dreams.

I put up with things I'm not really into because I don't want to be boring. He always says he doesn't want me to do anything I don't want to, but seems to find it hard to remember in the heat of the moment.

Grace , I would hope my DD wouldn't fall for a bastard and his tricks, she kicked her boyfriend into touch when he became whiney and jealous over her going off to Uni.

Secunda, you don't have to prove you're not boring by doing things you'd really rather not do, that's a great way to destroy your self esteem - if he says he won't do things but then goes ahead anyway, he's not the person for you.

He should accept your boundaries without question, I bet you wouldn't dream of doing something he doesn't like, would you?

Secunda: thing is, abusers of this type don't abuse you all the time because they know they don't have to. Just every now and again, just enough to keep you constantly on edge, questioning yourself, in a hurry to monitor the abuser's state of mind and comply with his wishes.

They often boohoo and apologise afterwards, as well. But then it happens again. And again. And a bit more each time.

Real playfighting (which is not compulsory, not everyone likes it, but nor it it unhealthy in healthy relationships) ends with both parties giggling and hugging or indeed having an enjoyable sex session. If, for instance, somebody accidentally bumps someone else's nose or inadvertently scratches them during a playfight, as can happen with no wicked intent, everything stops for apologies and first aid.
This isn't what's happenign with you, is it? Your H is beating you up and saying 'Can't you take a joke?'

I feel utterly sick

secunda...your husband is terrorising and belittling you

amy...you are standing by and condoning abuse of a child

there are no other words

Please take a few quiet minutes soon, Secunda, to consider the fact that you're questioning yourself and are afraid to challenge him. I believe, and so do the others here, that this has happened because he's succeeded in frightening you. It only takes a few displays of power to subdue entire nations ... could it be that this tactic has worked on you, too?

My ex did a rough, unwanted sex thing with me that has left me with some small, but permanent and unpleasant internal injuries. I'll never forget crying into the pillow, after I'd gone "STOP" and he carried on. That was rape but, even though I called it rape to myself, I never told anyone else and didn't use that word to him. He wasn't violent to me - yours is far more violent, with his 'playfighting' - but, all the same, his put-downs and gaslighting had successfully broken my spirit. And I had a lot of spirit!

This can happen, you know. We think it's happening to you. Please take those few minutes. We care about your spirit; we'd like to see you get it back

But he's not violent. He's just missed the signals a few times. We mess around/playfight a fair bit and he only goes too far about 1 time in 10. He is such a softie in all other ways, it just doesn't fit to call him an abuser, I just can't square it in my mind. I'm not scared of him. But I'm glad I'm not overreacting, next time I will definitely be stronger and stop him as soon as he starts playfighting. Also going to cut out all non-vanilla activities and see what happens.

Secunda have a look at Womans Aid website.

This is not a 'sign' of abuse, it is abuse. He's hurting you, disempowering you, making you fearful and upset.

It is bewildering and strange when you are with an abusive man. You often think 'he's not usually like this' or 'I must have wound him up' or 'he's just playing and I got the wrong end of the stick' or some other excuse on his behalf. This is because you think differently to him.

He's enjoying it and knows full well what he's doing.

"missed the signals"

more like...he pushes the boundaries so far he has you crying

a man like this would only make me cry once denial....I expect all abused women don't like to think they are being abused

secunda...I have seen you on other threads...why can you not apply your moral compass to your own relationship, when you seem to be perfectly capable of doing it for others ?

I wasn't scared of my x but that didn't stop 4 years of low level abuse going on which I am still coming to terms with. It's a bigger picture.

Like in my case he wasn't violent often. It was more throwing things at me, tipping a table at me, grabbing my arm, kicking my legs.

It was a gradually demoralising process. It was him not paying rent or staying out all night and when I asked him where he'd been or if he was going to help out he would call me a 'fucking idiot' or sometimes 'f-ing C u next tuesday' and then literally laugh in my face.

Sorry, rambling a bit, but the point is his reaction to whatever he did was to tell me it was my fault. In the end I would have to go into the bathromm and shut the door and cry whilst he played with our DD after he had had an outburst.

Even now I'm wondering why the hell I put up with it. It didn't take him long to find another girlfriend a month after he threatened to 'murder you both in your beds if you don't shut up'. For once I believed what he said and changed the locks the next morning.

Get out before it takes over your life. I've been living like a zombie walking on eggshells for 4 years, don't you do the same.

Life is too short.

wtf is this thread about? playfighting? are you 12?

amy - you are failing your daughter in the most hideous of ways. pull your head our of your arse and do something to protect her. i am the product of a mother who was abused in this way,the cycle of abuse continued as she married an absolute bastard of a man who went on to abuse me.

the cycle stopped with me. i left home at 15. i dont speak to my so called mother and im glad to say stepfather died young. karma.

amy, stop your husband abusing your daughter now, what kind of mother are you?