How we respond to threads about abuse + troll paranoia

[dizietsma]

I have noticed that often in threads where a poster is discussing abuse they are experiencing there is a lot of troll paranoia.

I think that this often happens because people who are lucky enough to never have experienced any abuse find it hard to believe how bad things can get.

I also think it happens because people get frustrated with the way abuse victims find it hard to take advice on how to improve their situations.

Frustration and disbelief are natural reactions, but they are something that really needs to stop on abuse threads.

Victims of abuse are often extremely isolated. If they reach out and are treated with suspicion and disbelief it could condemn them to further isolation and prolong abuse, this is unacceptable.

Furthermore, whether or not a poster disclosing abuse is genuine is irrelevant. I believe that all posters disclosing abuse should be treated as genuine so that other victims reading those threads will see that they can receive support, advice and encouragement should they brave reaching out.

For these reasons I believe that there should be a policy here that those people who have suspicions should hide the thread, and hold their tongues.

Can we agree on this?

those are mn guidelines already...

but,i have been in an extremely abusive relationship myself,i was almost killed by my ex. wasnt on mn tho. i was in a refuge with my dc....

so if a troll posts about their alleged abuse and turns out to be trolling,then i am outraged that they could use this scenario for attention or whatever they get from it!!

and wont hold my tongue either!!

Thats certainly what I do.

If I really suspect troll I would report the post, I guess.

I think the people who are voicing their concerns about trolls simply do not like to see other people being taken for a ride.

it doesn't take much to report and/or ignore a thread if you suspect a troll.

some people just can't resist that fucking smiley.

If I don't believe an OP I will say so.

I'm sure you mean well Diz.

Good post dizietsma.

Don't imagine people will take any notice though .

Agree with OP. It's too risky to alienate someone who needs help. If a troll gets a thread in well so what? And if someone gets a light bulb moment from a troll thread then good.

The problem is prettylegsgreatbigknockers (lovely username btw) is that some of us don't like trolls and think they do untold damage. Its not just a case of "so what?".

ThreeBlondeBoys and catinthehat2- I grew up in an abusive household, and share your outrage at people attention seeking through posting bogus abuse threads, but considering what's at stake I think your stubborn refusal to walk away from suspected troll threads is pretty selfish.

It's not about your outrage, it's about helping people flee from abuse. Just because you escaped abuse doesn't give you the right to deny that to others because you're angry about suspected trolls.

bibbitybobbityhat- you don't like trolls, fair enough. What damage exactly do you think treating a suspected abuse thread as genuine is going to do? How can it be worse than further isolating victims of abuse?

Sorry, that last part should be "a suspected troll abuse thread".

Yes, what harm do troll threads actually do, apart from wind people up?

Are you joking Janos?

I don't see what harm there is in being led down the garden path by a troll. Ultimately the worst a troll can do to you is waste your time.

Are you joking dizietsma?

Are you playing devil's advocate?

No, not at all. Tell me, what harm can a troll do to you? I'm utterly sincere.

You have obviously not read the posts from Psychomum after she was deceived by CVQ, or Kormachameleon and the Dizzymare saga. Both of them were traumatised by their experiences. Many others who wasted a lot of time and worry on both of these trolls would disagree with you that no harm was done.

Are you saying you don't mind if Mumsnet becomes riddled with trolls?

not selfish at all....

free forum we can post as we wish,as do trolls!!

you are seriously telling us to hide the thread and hold our tongues if we cant post as YOU wish us to?? seriously?

Really, bibbity? That's awful

I honestly thought people just got wound up by trolls..you know, they post an outlandish/offensive scenario, people pile in.

If people are getting actually hurt, that's more serious and yes, I can understand why you wouldn't think of them as a benign annoyance.

It's all very well telling people to say nothing, report the thread and then hide it, but the problem is that there are a lot of kind-hearted and, dare I say it, easily led people on mn who get more involved than just posting on the thread.

And the reality is that reporting the thread achieves nothing because mn hq are powerless to do anything. Unless an op has form i.e. has trolled before and their details match up, it is not possible for mn hq to prove or disprove, and they will always give the benefit of the doubt.

Remember Dizzymare? she'd been reported to mn hq weeks before anyone dared say anything on the boards, and in the meantime she'd aledgedly lost twins and no-one felt they dared voice their suspicions. If shiny hadn't started a thread voicing her suspicions (which quickly filled up with posters saying they'd felt the same but didn't want to be the first to say it), the threads would have continued, and before too long there would have been posters organizing collections for her and God knows what else.

What about that poster who claimed her dh had hit her child and who somehow ended up in a&e, giving a statement to the police and then in a travellodge with a laptop all within the space of about an hour. Again people reported, and mn hq had no way of knowing whether she was a troll. And yet there were people on that thread giving out their mobile numbers to her and some even saying they would offer her a bed for the night (none of them knew her).

If we could be sure that posters wouldn't get more deeply involved in some of these threads and would merely post on them giving advice it would be easy enough to say "don't say anything and just hide the thread." But they don't. People get far more involved than that. And I really do wonder how long it is before one of these trolls ends up doing some serious physical harm to a poster who gets so involved..

So while I do understand the sentiment, I'm afraid I disagree, and that people should be able to voice their suspicions.

I'm saying that the damage done by people disbelieving and further isolating victims of abuse is far greater than the damage done to some people posting to a thread they thought was genuine but wasn't.

I don't know anything about Psychomum's experiences with trolls, but if she was traumatised by the experience then she was probably too involved and not following sensible internet precautions.

I don't hand out my email, phone number or any personal information like FB accounts or messenger names to random folk on the internet. Particularly not people from message boards, no matter how bad their story seems.

If I find a thread upsetting I will walk away from it because I have realised it is affecting me too much.

What I can offer is support on threads, links to appropriate agencies, a clear headed perspective. That's all we can offer because getting more involved than that is dangerous and will result bad experiences like Psychomums.

But I got caught out on a troll-thread and spent a couple of nights worrying about the poster.

And was mightily pissed off to hear I'd been duped.

So, think it is right to question posters when their experiences seem questionable.

"People get far more involved than that."

That is the problem, clearly lots of posters need a brush up on internet safety.

I'm afraid I haven't really got a grip on what you are saying then op.

"I don't know anything about Psychomum's experiences with trolls, but if she was traumatised by the experience then she was probably too involved and not
following sensible internet precautions." Yes you're probably right but the thing is that a lot of trolls trade off peoples' personal experiences. So if for instance you've been the victim of rape (as cvq claimed to be) or suffered a bereavement (as dizzymare claimed to) then you might relate to that person on a more personal level and feel you want to help them, and before you realize it you've got more involved than you intended.

I've never got that involved either and have always been totally horrified at the levels some people go to to help complete strangers over the net, esp with giving money etc, but I've seen it happen often enough to realize that not everyone is as guarded, and that it's easy to be misled over the net by someone who pushes the right buttons.

"I don't hand out my email, phone number or any personal information like FB accounts or messenger names to random folk on the internet. Particularly not
people from message boards, no matter how bad their story seems." No neither do I, well I give out my email but that's it, but again, a lot of people are a lot more open than we are, and sometimes by the time they realize that being that open isn't necessarily the best way it's too late and the damage has been done. And a lot of people are generally trusting, and can't see that the internet is the perfect place for frauds to play.