How we respond to threads about abuse + troll paranoia

[dizietsma]

I have noticed that often in threads where a poster is discussing abuse they are experiencing there is a lot of troll paranoia.

I think that this often happens because people who are lucky enough to never have experienced any abuse find it hard to believe how bad things can get.

I also think it happens because people get frustrated with the way abuse victims find it hard to take advice on how to improve their situations.

Frustration and disbelief are natural reactions, but they are something that really needs to stop on abuse threads.

Victims of abuse are often extremely isolated. If they reach out and are treated with suspicion and disbelief it could condemn them to further isolation and prolong abuse, this is unacceptable.

Furthermore, whether or not a poster disclosing abuse is genuine is irrelevant. I believe that all posters disclosing abuse should be treated as genuine so that other victims reading those threads will see that they can receive support, advice and encouragement should they brave reaching out.

For these reasons I believe that there should be a policy here that those people who have suspicions should hide the thread, and hold their tongues.

Can we agree on this?

whats internet safety got to do with it?

dizietsma,
I agree with every single word you say.

Internet safety, threeblonde, means:

You don't give out your phone number, email, home address, send money, post photos, give personal or family information...etc. etc.. to anyone on the internet, no matter WHO they claim to be.

I think dizietsma is saying - there is a middle ground in these abuse threads, which means not sending the op money/phone numbers/addresses, and equally.......

not telling the op that she's a liar, fraud and troll.

most of us dont give out this info....doesnt mean we should still be feeding the bleeding troll tho does it?!

Oops, just realised threeblondeboys, that you asked what internet safety has to do with it (not what it is).

And I suppose the answer to that is that if those posters had not sent money,etc. they would have been a lot less traumatised.

Also, you say........"so if a troll posts about their alleged abuse and turns out to be trolling,then i am outraged" well if the op TURNS OUT TO BE TROLLING then of course we are all enraged. Trouble is we don't know initially do we?

Innocent until proven guilty.

i dont know of anyone sending money to those in abusive relationships,it seems the sending of cash is reserved for regular MNers who post alot of problems and are well known....who usually frequent 'chat'

No you're right, it was beds for the night and stuff.

The sending of cash, for whatever reason, abuse, death, divorce seems very odd - when you don't know the person. But in this case I would just NOT send the cash and leave the thread if I thought it was a troll.

I agree 100% with mumonthenet. Very well said, all if it. And OP.

As much as people need to stop troll calling, people also need to be more wary of internet safety and getting too involved with posters - it's a chat forum... anyone could be posting. Equally, posters should treat as genuine so genuine victims reading those threads will know they can find real support here.

I know if anything ever happened to me like that I'd be too afraid to post here because I would inevitably get a and "troll" and wouldn't be able to bear that on top of everything else going on.

Diz -

you say about me:
"stubborn refusal to walk away from suspected troll threads is pretty selfish."

Actually, you are projecting a lot of emotional stuff that is solely in your imagination.

I post my comment. I walk away and post on a thread about runner beans or cats. That is all.

I think you have to accept that there is a fair old group of people who aren't gullible and who don't get emotionally involved with this stuff.

It's not selfish or unselfish, stubborn or whatever the opposite to stubborn is. It's just me, whoever I may be, one of thousands, posting on an interweb board. Unfortunately, the rest is, as I said, in your head.

Wannabe is one of a number of people who have made some good practical and unemotional points about this.

You however have started to raise the temperature once you realised that you haven't had immediate 100% unquestioning agreement, so I think on balance I withdraw my earlier comment that you meant well.

Totally agree Dizi

The right help can change a life and that can start on here: my god friend recently escaped the absuing abstard who has had her as virtual prisoner for years (he was sent to priosn for crimes not related to his abuse) and within months she has managed to move, get a first ever job..... incredible and as she has severe anorexia quite ossibly life saving

Cat it is not all. Poeple reaching out as a last stand, no matter how unbeleivable their story, deserve advice. if you can't give that walk away but don't even take the risk of alientaing someone. My freind's story was compeltely and ridiculously unbeleivable- her H is in fact in prison now for sex trafficking, threatening behaviour with his band of heavies and fraud (other charges pensing). She woudl have sounded lilke a pure fantasist on MN, but I wish she could ahve posted years ago and diodn't have the legacy of fifteen yeras of the twat hanging over her.

When I started a thread, I was asking people to give me advice on how I could balance out the unfair work-load in my marriage - not for one second did I think or realise that what I was going through, was abuse. Only once I started responding to some very wise Mnetters' searching questions, did I realise the truth of the situation I found myself in.

I started to recall events that happened in my 15 year marriage - I have always kept it to myself, as I was embarrassed about it and I always thought that it was my fault, as my dh liked to remind me - I decided to tell about my experiences here on MN and was completely overwhelmed by the kindness and understanding shown to me - I received some very helpful advice (including relevant links), which helped me to see the reality of my situation.

The first time someone suggested that I was a troll, I was surprised and a little hurt, but I decided not to respond - the next time it happened, I responded by saying that I am not a troll and that I wish that it was all made up, because that would mean that what I was experiencing is not real and that would be great - the next time it happened, I got angry and crapped on some poor woman called Orange(something), she was putting all her money on the fact that I was gathering info for a novel and that my posts were too descriptive to be true - I told her that my post are descriptive, because I was there when all that shit happened and that I don't know how to tell what happened without being descriptive - I gave the powers that be in MN the authority to have Orange(something) write a book about my life - I feel bad about my response to her, but how exactly am I supposed to prove that I am not a troll?

I think it is disgusting that previous trolls have lied about things as devastating as losing their children and rape - it is sick and I completely understand people's wariness, because of that - it is unforgivable, but where does that leave me and others who are telling the truth?

Sancti, I think there's a way of looking at posts for believability which doesn't entirely depend on the storyline. Really, all posts are just words on a screen, but there is an element of emotional manipulation which detracts from some posts.

For instance, I've stopped believing in Diz's goodwill because taken as a whole on this thread she seems intent on making people do things they don't agree with. Again, I'm describing my belief, based on evidence. I can't get into D's head to confirm the truth of this.

Likewise, I would have certainly believed your friend's outlandish story if it came across as real with no extra troll agenda ie the need over & above her genuine need to discuss her unpleasant situation. (I wouldn't have posted on her thread though).

(Got to go now so if you reply I won't acknowledfg)

At the risk of getting a mouthful in return, I would say it's ironic that many of you who have been in an abusive relationship somehow feel you have the moral high ground when it comes to judging whether or not someone is trolling.

Why so arrogant?

Surely your own experiences must show you how desperately abused women need help?

How can you deny that help to someone based on a few lines of typing?

Or based on your gut feeling?

Why can't you take the lines of typing at face value?

Why should you care if the OP is a troll and thinks you are gullible?

You are not defined by what some attention-seeking troll thinks.

To paraphrase an old saying...tis better that 9 trolls go undetected than that 1 genuine abused and isolated woman is denied support.

I agree with Diz. Victims of abuse are disbelieved over and over again. They're asked to prove their stories, they're cross examined, they're asked why, if it's so horrible, they didn't leave, and they end up feeling like they're the ones in the wrong. This on top of the guilt and shame, and on top of the actual abuse.

There's a regular poster around here who escaped an abusive relationship a while back, who is still being asked, by CAFCASS guardians, who are supposed to be trained professionals, what she did to provoke the 'so-called' violence.

Maybe we don't want to believe that horrendous abuse actually happens. Maybe it's like believing that rape victims must have asked for it; it's magical thinking to hope that all the women who post horrific stories about their children being beaten up are lying. I don't know, really.

But I can't help seeing some similaries. The few proven trolls are dragged out as examples again and again, as a reason why we shouldn't trust anyone posting about abuse. It's like the 'some women do make false rape allegations' thing.

So if you're Over, and you're coming to terms with this stuff for the first time, and you know that there'll be people shouting troll and trying to trip you up and making you prove every step, where does that leave you?

Usually, it leaves you back in your abusive household, with one more avenue of help closed off to you.

I'm sorry people got 'traumatised' by offering help to fakes before. But they didn't get trapped in a house with a violent man for the rest of their lives because no-one would offer help and sympathy, did they? So on the whole, I think maybe those people should adhere to the Mumsnet policy on trolls and stay out of it so that those of us so inclined can try and help.

great post OTSBH

I agree with you Diz

There's far too much time spent on MN hunting for trolls. Some users are really quite vicious with their remarks. And it's made much worse when there's more than one troll hunter. It's really quite disgusting to witness, even if you are not the OP. Hunting trolls is very different to simply disagreeing or voicing your own opinion, after all, that's what the OP obviously wants.

I've quite often ended up feeling that Mumsnet is a pretty nasty website. Not because of the Trolls, but actually because of the Troll hunters! More a prison camp mentality than a support group for women. I would suggest that anyone who shouts 'Troll' is banned from MN! If they are so vulnerable at the hands of the trolls, they should steer well clear from any form of chat/talk that uses aliases.

If you don't believe the post ignore it, hide it, don't get drawn in.

And what about SpookyCharlotte and OJ?
I was one of the people who invested heavily (emotionally) in CVQ and I'm still wondering about her, because I think she was a very needy young woman, but when she was exposed as a 'troll' I didn't feen 'wounded' or 'cross', just very sad that here was a young woman we couldn't help.
So I agree with MOTN that it is better that 9 trolls go undetected than that 1 real abuse victim should be denied support.

(And threads like these also attract trolls like flies to a corpse.)

is this why you just can't keep away? I thought you said you had to go out? lol!

The problem is, that people who do "troll call" aren't going to be convinced by any argument... even the facts listed on here of it being a way of isolating and preventing abuse victims from being helped. Ah well, only so much you can do.

Posters in delicate situations should be aware that there are people out there who won't believe them and who are not very nice. C'est la vie. It's horrible and I wish it weren't so... but it looks like that's the only way to go forward. Maybe "troll callers" should have their posts reported to mnhq to be deleted.

Hi Joanna, or should I say bzzz?

i believe that often it's a case of ego.

much kudos is given the posters who shout troll and suddenly the thread becomes more about them than he OP.

Good post, StarExpat.

catinthehat. sorry...am on pmt and bored this morning

Hi there
Just another reminder of the MN troll policy

MN Towers

I agree with StarExpat that ?"troll callers" should have their posts reported to mnhq to be deleted.? The trouble is, at least in my experience, MNHQ will not do this.

I also agree with JoannaLewis ?There's far too much time spent on MN hunting for trolls. Some users are really quite vicious with their remarks?

And I agree with tortoiseonthehalfshell ?I think maybe those people should adhere to the Mumsnet policy on trolls and stay out of it so that those of us so inclined can try and help?

And finally I agree with mumonthenet ?To paraphrase an old saying...tis better that 9 trolls go undetected than that 1 genuine abused and isolated woman is denied support.?