'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I don't know how to start so I'll just dive right in.

In my family negative emotions are not allowed to be expressed. Even now when I try to express anger or frustration my mother takes it personally and my father laughs at me. I remember being fourteen and injuring myself to get rid of some feelings. I wrote my anger down in my diary and wrote about what I'd done to my arms. My mother read my diary (betrayal #1) and her response was to scream and me and ask me "how dare you do that in my house?" (betrayal #2).

I see myself repeating a lot of my mother's behaviour every day. This is NOT OKAY. I do not want my own children to have the same experiences as I did. I am so scared of becoming my mother. I have spent years avoiding and denying the problem and trying to blame it on mental illness (should it be other other way round???). I need to take responsibility and work through this rather than seeking to be "saved" by my doctor and my partner.

I have reservations. Do I have a right to talk about this? Is talking about it and telling people Okay? Am I just seeking attention? Do I have a right to have my experiences validated? Should I just delete this message and forget about it? Do I deserve to be heard when others have had it much worse?

I don't know where to start.

kerching Of course this is ok. You are questioning wether it is or not because when you were a child you were punished for 'speaking' out about your emotional pain.
Shame on your mother for screaming at you when she should have held you, supported you .
Her reaction was all about her denial, her not being able to face up to the bad parenting techniques which had made you so unhappy. The same ones that left you without any tools to deal with that unahppyness and so you cut instead.
You will not turn into your mother, because you have just taken the first step to facing up to all of this. You have the strength of character to walk out into the light, instead of hiding in the shadows as she did.
Have you done much reading? 'Toxic parents' by susan forward is a good place to start.

bagofrefreshers So so glad to hear from you. I have been thinking of you and hoping you were ok.
Well done on dealing with dd by yourself. It isn't easy being heavily pg with a small child all alone FOR ANYONE. You have done it plus having to deal with the difficult work of processing this stuff from your childhood.
Yes, I understand what you mean at times we all I guess identify with our abusers, especially at times of great stress. The important thing is to forgive yourself and move on from it. The kinder and more loving you are to yourself right now, the more you will be wrapping yourself in a protective layer which will help you withstand the stress and anxiety the next few weeks may throw your way.
All you need to be is 'good enough' mum right now, dont expect anymore from yourself than that.

mampam- It's hard when most of the progress emotionally happens whilst heavily pg. Damn biology and damn those hormones.
I know exactly where you are coming from because this is exactly how it went for me. When I was pg with dd (second dc) my mother stepped everything up too. She had been barely visible when I needed her help. While I was ill and trying to juggle full time work, a bad pg and ds.
But as the due date fast approached She began (I reaslise now) her preparation to feed off of the limelight of my second birth.
Something snapped inside of me, all those phonecalls. The control element of 'I will call you when I want to call you' (yes my mother did this too). Ringing my Dh's phone, witholding her number.
It wasnt maternal concern...it was all about her. Her need for supply.
You must forgt about your mothers needs entirely now and focus on yourself.
You do have every right to do just that.
I ended up putting my mother in a 'holding pattern' of NC during that time. I too found the whole prospect of an eternal NC plan too much to bare.
So in my mind I wanted a peaceful stress free birth. The kind of birth she robbed me of the first time around. My boundary became that I did not want her around me at all until after the birth.
You are about to do something really and truly amazing mampam. You are about to bring a new life into the world. This is not about your mother, tis about you.

This thread means so much to me, I thought I was the only person and feel so isolated. I am the eldest of 3 girls now, in my late 30s. I lost my father when i was six and my mother was all i had. She came from a large family and isolated us all from them and moved us to a new town far from them all. One of my sisters left and is living far from home with little or no contact and my other sister still lives at home not working an eternal student with her 2 dogs and is my mothers golden child.

I got married young just to get away from her and her mood swings i married an alcoholic and i have a gorgeous child of 12 from that marriage, i left my husband when she was 6 months old and went back to live with my mother. We lived in rented accom with my mother and sister for many years and moved house once every year. I work and always have and my mother looks/ed after my dd and i bought/buy groceries utilities and got into a lot of debt with movin house etc over the years. I met someone who i still love very much - its over a year now - when my dd was 5 and eventually moved in together. My mother liked him until that happened and - my dd stayed with my mum 3 nights per week, i am not a bad mum now i was just made to feel bad as i was leaving and having a relationship and i am sure you all know how you are made to feel. after a while within a month of moving in my mother started to say i wasnt looking after dd and my sister agreed and said her fingernails etc were dirty and that i would have to move back home with her if i was to be a proper mum, and if not - me movin back- i was not allowed to take my dd to her home. this went on a while i was so frightened of them until evenually i snapped and called social services and they said she cant do that that it is illegal etc and i was to get my child back. to no avail. i had a huge row with her and social services told me to ring the police to get my dd back and i did. I do not have to say how that made me feel and how it was. within an hour of getting her back to my partners house and mine (by the way my partner was supportive and thought that i should stand up more to them but it is so hard letting people know how weak and scared you are all the time) my sister called and said they dont want to see me again and i nearly killed mum and she is in such a state and i should let them see dd again for 3 nights a week i caved in. Much to everyones horror.

I was so happy living with my partner and dd and so free it was the happiest time of my life but with my family in the background i felt dreadful and constantly undermined, so my long term relationship ended with a terrible row and him telling me he could not take it anymore etc,and to leave his home. i took this really badly my sister rang and he took the phone of me i fell hurt myself and cried the next thing police were at the door saying domestic violence, my partner is and was always gentle but just had enough of my family situation.

My dd and i had nowhere to go the police couldnt find anywhere for us so my sister said to me to go back home to mums - that was horrific- so we went back to mums and she ignored me when i came in and said to my dd you will need a lot of help after what she did to you. I lay in my bed that night and my mother in the next room said to my dd that i was an evil horrible person. i got up walked out and got a taxi to my partners house, which was miles away he told me to go away i told him i had nowhere else to go and said that my mum had got me by the hair and threw me out (she didnt, i was so desperate to never go back) so i just went and walked and walked and got a taxi miles back to my mothers home.

My partner had called the police - apparently he went out looking for me and then he called my sister. I was then back at mums and i just lay on that bed all night in fear and couldnt go to my dd - its sounds mad but i was so frightened and eventually my mother came into me and said to me to get washed and to get a drink. I did and she said that this was my home and i was to stay until my dd was 18 and that she had spoken to the appropriate people and that if i wanted my dd that is what i had to do.

So life continued, we eventually got a permanent home, a new beginning, within a month it wasnt my home, my dd and i share a box room with my sister and dogs in large room and my mother with a room. Life was and is horrific, until a point came in august after looking online, asking my gp etc who was helpful getting a referrel to womens aid which i thought was only for battered women.

They took my dd and i in as apparently i was suffering from emotional abuse and told me to never contact them again they would help us get a new life and when i see them again on my terms etc.

I also contacted my mothers sisters who were good and told me a lot about mum and that apparently she had told her mother who is dead now that she had manic depression and that my mother was always hard to deal with etc with her black moods. They also said that they way mum spoke to me was awful and that my sister is the golden one, and thank god my other sister moved away. They hoped i would be strong and find my own life.

Within a month of being in womens aid i received a court summons as they wanted to take my dd off me, the summons ran into 2 pages it was awful and i am telling the truth completely untrue they also said i had mental illness etc which is an awful thing to say. so it started again i was terrified again and went to court and no they didnt get my dd and were allowed a little contact once a week.

I caved in my sister rang so upset and loving and i seen my mum who was so upset at what she did to us and said she loved us etc and i fell for it. that was six months ago.

Today, I am looking for somewhere for my dd and i to live - she allows us to have our own home- i work it is part-time and i am saving so hard for a rental deposit for a house but its going to take a while and i am so so upset (i cant get a loan due to the debt from years ago, my family lost contact with me when i went back) i seem to be getting nowhere and because i work i cant get social security benefits and i wouldnt stop working as i cant sit in that house all day. One day it is great my mother is loving and like the blink of an eye she starts again.

My life is sheer hell, secure and loved one minute - which i fall for and tormented the next. I have my dd, but i am so lonely and isolated and people dont understand my situation, i know it is abnormal and i havent the money or friends to help me get out.

This thread has been a lifeline to me, my only horror is it continues.

Therealsmithfield, Hi, just caught up with the thread again, not had much time to spend on computer lately.

I loved the post, that was put on here regarding the poem about children growing up with various things.... what a good reminder... some of the things sadly we as parents do not have control over, but for those we do, it is a good reminder to us as parents x

I am thinking at the moment about the drama triangle, and how the victim, poor me role, and rescuer roles that I have mainly taken on need to change in me.

I was thinking about how the drama triangle can change and how a have a go hero, starts off as a rescuer of a victim, can become a persecutor of the origional persecutor or a victim of the origional persecutor, depending on the rescuer's life script, as to weather of not they are scripted to be a victim themselves.... if this is making any sensce...

I am just trying to live a life as drama free as possible, enjoying the dramas of general life rather than, my own drama's of watching from the sidelines like a soap opera and judging others dramas to keep me from boredom, there are so many better things to do with my percious life!

So what I mean is to enjoy being, something that is in western culture, for example just sit in the garden, and look at the sky, feel the grass, that sort of thing and enjoy that drama, rather than engage in negative drama's...

I really do find this thread usefull, it brings to me so many things that I had not thought of, it brings to me, observations others that have been abused noted and then I look at my past and see if that is relevant to me also, and question it all.

I just want to keep myself and my children safe. I want to have knowledge and wisedom to stop anyone hurting us again.

I am trying really hard to get out of the victim, poor me syndrome and feeling like I am ok, and treating others even the one's who have hurt me like they are ok, knowing they will continue to treat me like I am not ok... no pity, no hatred etc for them... it is not easy... forgive, only a fool forgets...

enjoying being is from the older eastern cultures... not western culture... oops...

mummiehunnie The hardest part about the drama trianglr is that you can only leave it as 'persecutor'. This is why N mums play victim when we try and break away. mampam you are currently a case in point arent you.

alisara Your post made me so sad. I thought here is a woman who wants to live her life and cant because of the fear and guilt that are constantly driven into her by her mother.
She is using your sister just as much..one day you will realise she is a victim here as well. You are lucky in a way because as her scapegoat you are more likely to break away. I doubt your sister ever will.
How is your daughter coping being in this environment?
Have you read many books on the topic? Sorry if you said that you had.
All I can say is you must try and find the strength within you to break away, for your daughters sake. You know well enough that she will disable your daughter and steal her life too if this cycle continues. Could you go back to WA? I think there is a course mentioned by grace on here that WA do that may be of use too.
You are an adult now you do have the power. Even if it feels as though you have none.

alisara the freedom Programme- grace would this be something alisara could do?

The Freedom programme is a rolling programme that you can come and go to as you please. It outlines all the fifferent guises that abusers take on, and their methods. It's funny (?) to find out just how very limited their repertoire can be.

I have found it extremely useful in dealing with my h and my mother too.

Google it and there is a page where you put in your postcode to find the nearest. There is a book that goes with it call "Living with the dominator".

Therealsmithfield, I had not heard that the only way to leave the drama triangle was to leave as the persecutor before?

My understanding, though limited, is that anyone can leave the drama triangle and reach centre.

This can include no communication, this can include communication with those that have abused you, when you have built yourself up with strong boundaries, or limited contact with those that abused you. All the time checking that you and your children are safe! It is almost like having a new puppy, a learning curve for you and for your former abusers!

The freedom programme, sounds really interesting

Hunniemummie- I think it's more about how you are percieved than something you actively do. Other people in the triangle wont want you to alter your position so they will portray you as a persecutor. Does that make sense? It's more about them 'reacting' to you.

I see therealsmithfield, that makes sense, if you cut off contact, that can be perceived as you being passive agressive, hence perpretrator, stopping the relationship and drama!

oh my word, if someone wants to look at a classic case of projection, ie someone falsley accusing someoneelse of something they have not done, as the poster was wanting to rescue and persecute another poster,please look at another thread on here, called, is it possible to make a fresh start. Just for the record, I don't post a huge amount on this website! although why I should have to defend myself, I am still working out!

Can't hang around today - I've just been reading this article and thought you might welcome the following:

"Research on early attachment, both in humans and in nonhuman primates, shows that we are hard-wired for bonding ? even to those who aren?t very nice to us.

We also know that although prolonged childhood trauma can be toxic to the brain, adults retain the ability later in life to rewire their brains by new experience, including therapy and psychotropic medication."

alisara I am shocked by your mum's hijacking your life and practically kidnapping your child! Please, please continue to talk to Women's Aid as I'm sure they will be able to help you again.

Hi

I used to be on this thread a long time ago and you helped me enormously. I have namechanged as my normal name is now known by some RL friends. Grace spoke to me on a recent thread and suggested I come back to the fold

Am typing this while baby is sleeping (rarity) and will try to read whole thread from start tonight. Please excuse me being 'rude' in this sense but wanted to get thoughts out while in head.

Background - I was bullied badly when younger for excess hair. I self harmed from age of about 9, never ate, hid when at school, made myself sick every morning to avoid school, wouldn't tell my parents as too ashamed.

I feel that my parents didn't do enough to help me. It was bloody obvious I would get bullied they should have helped me and they should have realised (through me going to bed at 4pm every day and never eating, constantly avoiding school etc) that there was something wrong.

My parents are also extremely controlling I would say. I talked to you lot on here about this, went to counselling, cut contact with my parents for a bit, wrote them a long letter eventually and then spoke to them. They were hard times but my parents were very good, accepted what I said, said how sorry they were, told me how much they loved me etc. All good. And it has helped enormously with me 'getting over' my school days.

However, my parents are still very controlling and also belittling towards me. I'll link the thread I met Grace on recently:

think this 'outs' me never mind

If you can read that you can understand maybe. So my urgent question is, parents came back from cruise yesterday and in conversation mentioned that exh and exfil had been showing them the garden when they dropped my dd off. I bet they had a cup of tea and everything but I want to kill them.

Please can someone help me, am i being stupid over this? Is it normal for parents to still speak to exh? I really want to tell them how hurt I am but know I'll just rake everything up again and get told I'm sensitive or silly or I dont know, stupid I think.

Sorry for the ultra long post. Off to deal with baby but if anyone has any ideas I would be very grateful. And sorry for not reading through all before posting.

Hello all, sorry I have been away for a while, was struck down with (another) virus, but am better now. I'm sure my immune system is closely connected with my issues. The virus 'got' me as soon as I 'let go' of the situation with my parents and the money. I was totally stressed out about it for quite a while, and like many of you said on here, it was all about power and control and not really about the money.

I did kind of know that, but couldn't see the picture clearly for myself until a few days ago and as soon as I saw the picture, it was as if I 'relaxed' about it all, and bang, the virus struck.

Anyway, I, think, and hope, I have taken back the control, after my dad temporarily took it from me as was always his (subconscious) intention when 'offerring' me the money, supposedly with no strings attached, and doing it all via my sister, thus making sure she sister knew about his 'kindness' and 'generosity' to me, despite my 'meanness' and 'nastiness' in cutting ties with him when he had done nothing wrong. Thus reinforcing his role as victim, mine as persecutor and my sister's as rescuer.

I think the offer of the money threw me back into helpless, dependent child mode again. As a child, even though inside I hated and despised my dad, I had to be nice to him, because I was totally dependant on him financially. And he exploited his position of power shamelessly. And he was trying to re-create that set up again with his recent offer. He was never willing to just hand over the money, I could only have it if I agreed to some form of contact with him, supposedly to discuss the money/investment. But I knew that once I opened the door to any sort of communication, he would use that and try and worm his way back into other areas of my life, not just money related.

It just proves to me how as a child, he did actually 'need' me to vent on and exploit and use for his own purposes. As a parent, he was supposed to ensure my needs as a child were met, but instead he used me to meet his needs. And he is trying to get me back into my old role by dangling the money like a carrot. It makes me think that perhaps he has not been able to find somebody else to use, or at least not somebody else who is as easy to use as I was, somebody who puts up no resistance as I didn't.

I have realised that even as a child, he used money as a way of controlling me, ensuring I stayed dependent on him so he could abuse me when he 'needed' to. The money was not his way of saying sorry as I thought before. That was just me desperately wanting to believe that he did care about me, even a tiny bit. He didn't care about me at all, he never has, and the money was always and only a method of gaining and retaining control over me.

I am sure the money given to my sisters is being used for the same purpose, although my sisters will be unaware of this.

Another thing I have realised, which I am a bit to say is that I am a loveable person! DH loves me because I am loveable. For so long DH has told me he loves me and whilst I have believed he is geniune when he says it, I have never been able to understand how or why he loves me. Because, I have had a subconscious belief about myself that I am unloveable, and deep seated feelings of self hatred, self loathing; the belief that I am repulsive and ugly. These feelings and belief were so deeply ingrained, they were a part of me and I have only just become aware of them and am slowly learning to seperate them from the real me and cast them away. Of course all the ingrained feelings and beliefs were those that I grew up with; I must be repulsive and ugly if my own parents don't love me, if my parents hate me. It must be me, not them, is what I thought as a child.

Thanks everyone for wishing me luck yesterday. It went as well as could be expected, there were no flashpoints, though she is in fullblown victim mode again. I just do not facilitate it any more (Sample conversation - her "We're going away again next weekend". Me - "Oh nice, are you looking forward to it?" Her - "No". Me - "Well dont go then". Her -"It means I dont need to worry about what to make for dinner at least " Me - "Lovely ")

Was ironing last night when I turned to dh and said, is it just me or is it abnormal that the two questions I got asked about work were, is it very stressful, and, have you not been made redundant yet?

She was in a terrible mood when we arrived, we were ten minutes late which we apologised for (had gone to cinema and film ran on longer than we thought. Turns out though that she had phoned the night before, when MIL was babysitting. Strongly suspect she was in a mood about MIL being there. For reasons I stated in an earlier post, my mother wont ever be asked to babysit again.

Was a nice meal and I felt quite in control which was good. I dont even feel hurt by it any more - its obvious when you look in that she isnt happy, while I am, and I wont be made to feel guilty about that because I firmly believe you cant make someone else happy. You do that yourself.

Smithfield thanks for your comments. You have obviously come a very long way. Its not easy is it?

Alisara - believe in yourself.

Vanilla - its so hard to believe you are lovable for yourself isnt it? I think I spent years trying to sabotage my marriage because I thought, better I end it before he gets the chance to realise how awful I am and leave me. Thank heavens dh is the persistent type.

Was reading over your post again after I posted last and it rang so many bells. Im still scared to show weakness or emotion pretty much to anyone because Im still not liking myself all that much. I would never have this conversation with anyone in RL.

Im glad you realised what your father was doing. Its not a carrot hes got, its a fish hook to reel you back in.

Sorry me again - just read your other thread ForStately, and good lord that could be me!! Im not 34 for a few months though....

Stop making excuses for their bad behaviour. Its tough to realise that actually they arent that great people at all, and it took a few blowouts with my family for me to realise it. I think like me you actively avoid confrontation?

And anyone who comments on the state of your house should in my opinion eff off and get a life. I live in my house, I use my house, and I am too busy living life to have the time to spend making the house which my family live in look like a showhome 24/7!!!

rj, yes, it is very hard. I have also been trying to sabotage my marriage, almost forcing DH to leave me when he didn't actually want to, because I thought it was bound to happen at some point anyway as how could somebody like me have someone who genuinely loves me for me? He must have only got married to me for some other reason and as soon as that has run it's course, he'll go. I was always asking DH, when he told me he loved me, "But why?", over and over again. I simply could not comprehend that he loved me because I was/am loveable.

I went out a few nights ago with some mums from DD's school. The other mums all know each other well, but I don't as I have not been very sociable the last few years because of all my 'stuff'. Anyway, we were all sitting there, they were funny, confidently telling anecdotes and chatting away, clearly not feeling awkward or shy or unconfident like I was. Usually I'd come away from an evening like that feeling awful, useless, inferior and rubbish compared to all the others mums. But this time, I just thought to myself that perhaps that is how one would be if you had had the good fortune to have had a loving set of parents, but I was not so lucky, but that does not mean I am inferior to those other mums. I am as good as any of them and I was proud of myself for even going to the night out when I know many didn't because they felt too nervous and lacking in confidence. I was nervous and lacking in confidence, but I still went and made the best of it and I am so proud of myself for doing that; only I know how hard it was for me to go.

Loving, liking and looking after yourself is so important for all of us. We have been so lacking in all three things for most, if not all of our lives.

Grace, thank you for your post. I am always heartened to read studies that show that the damage done in childhood is not permanent and the brain can be 're-wired'. New experiences are important, new positive and loving experiences can replace the old programming, but it is a slow and gradual process and I realise i have to let go of the old beliefs in order to create space for the new ones.

Another relationship sabotager (sp) here.
i do 'feel' although dh says not that he is reaching his limits with me. Whats more I dont blame him. He wants to be a husband not a nurse maid/counsellor.

vanilla so glad you feel clearer, you deserve a huge pat on the back you really do. You have just stood up to them in such a healthy way. It is there view of you that is skewed because of your father. Never loose sight of that.
He has tried the illness card, the money card...what comes next? Anyone know?
I would bet my life on the fact eventually one of your sisters will cop some of what you have endured at some point in the future.
He clearly can not function without his supply.
I really relate to what you say about the night out with the mums. I am realising that I am carrying all this shame which renders me mute at time in the presence of others.
All the not good enough feelings surface. I am good enough, I do feel shame but I shouldnt because it's their projection of shame on to me. It doesnt really belong to me. Yet I still own it.

Am feeling very sad today. Find it too hard to write when I feel like this or even pinpoint why. Some of it is possibly hormonal but realisations are coming thick and fast currently and frankly I am finding it really tricky to deal with it all.

Hang in there, smithfield

I went to see my psychologist today - almost cancelled, as I was feeling terribly overwhelmed & hopeless. Of course, that's why I have a psychologist but you know ...

Once I'd started talking, I realised just how much ground I've covered in the past three weeks. I've been soul-baring here, mulling over other people's observations, reading enough to write a dissertation on abusive relationships, digging around in my 'therapeutic toolbox' and doing my meditations. I thought I was going to disappear down my own psyche, never to be seen again

I have resolved a huge chunk of my ishoos! And I'm very confident, all of a sudden, that I'm going to get the rest sorted (well, sorted enough anyway) before long. Psychologist summed my ramblings up for me and I almost kissed her! The best thing was when she said "You must be exhausted." I was! And now I'm not!! Hurrah

Do you know how to meditate? You know, that thing where you just gently observe your thoughts ... I swear it does a world of good.

I'm trying to install a kitchen so please excuse me for not being here much this week. Just wanted to give you a friendly shoulder squeeze and a little encouragement.

install a kitchen? Grace!

This thread and others I feel are powering me through circumstances that probably take much longer on their own.

People I speak to, therapist, womens aid, police, family safety unit etc, appear to be impressed. (doubt of my own ability, confidence, personality showing there!)

Maybe I should...you should Grace....we all should...take a bit of a break....buy cake or love hearts for those poor little abused children inside us.

Love hearts ...proud of that idea, they are ace...(feels uncomfortable with pride but typing it anyway... gulp)

Stately, the difficulty I have with my mum is her construction of "loveliness". She's girly and sweet, does gardening and arty stuff, and offers a sort of smilingly brave face when life is difficult. She does nice things for me sometimes. She is poison.

I honestly don't think she realises how hypocritical & manipulative she is. What she has is a careful facade of loveliness: she can't bear to be disliked and, yes, she justifies her hypocrisies with credible protestations of honesty & civility.

If you listen to her carefully, you notice that all her conversation is geared to cast herelf in a flattering light - while everyone else (except her current favourite/s) looks difficult, confused or otherwise problematic. She is a Narcissistic Mother. If I hadn't had my breakdown, I would never have seen the vicious hatred, fury and fear boiling underneath the embroidery. God knows why she felt it was safe to reveal herself to me like that, but it's proved constructive (if painful) for me. The woman underneath is ugly - hideous, in fact.

Try really listening to what your parents say - not what they think mean, or what your family habits dictate you should hear. Listen to their words. How many words of contempt, dislike & rejection do they use ... ?

Love hearts Excellent! xx

grace Thanks for the shoulder squeeze. And wow...go Grace .
Lol at '..disapear down my own psych'..
Dont feel bad for not being around much. Those that aren't around much are 'generally' doing very well.
I might google mediataion. Know what it is but not really sure how to get going with it.
Its never really quiet or zen enough to mediate anywhere in this house

stately YANBU, in the context of having the right to express your opinion/feeling or to assert your needs.
Your parents are using put downs to stop you from expressing those feelings. They have done this for a long long time and so of course your self esteem has suffered.
imagine your best friend in the world has had an abusive relationship with an ex partner. Would you a) be supportive and respect her wishes if she requested you not visit ex whilst looking after her dd.
b) Would you agree (or not agree) not to visit ex H with her dd but do it anyway after all, she is has always been a bit silly .
This is a quiz that helps to highlight when the other persons behaviour is unreasonable which many of us on here often need help with because we've been gaslighted to within an inch of our lives.
Im sure they are lovely people stately...but they 'are' hurting you...they are bullying you and you have a right to say stop, wether they are your parents or not.