'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Oh Diving you don't need to apologize to me. I thought for ages about how to word that post as I didn't want to dredge it up again and I certainly didn't want it to come across as attacking you. I'm sorry if it has, I was just trying to explain why I started posting and then disappeared. I really admire you for coming back on and apologizing to people about it, that takes courage. And I'm glad you're back as I found your posts really helpful and insightful. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time at the moment- as others have said you are not being self indulgent, you are grieving and you need to let yourself go through it. You WILL come out the other side.

Mampam It is definately not you. She is so desperate for all the limelight to herself. I know the tactics so well.
In fact when I was pg with dd my mother called me 'fatty'. When I asked her to stop she said Ok 'shorty'. Its just nasty and undermining/diminishing.
Diving is right you are entitled to put yourself and this baby first. You are entitled to have the birth you want.
It is a hot topic for me as my mother rode roughshod over my feelings and needs just so she could hijack the limelight and in so doing sabotaged the birth and special bonding time with ds (my first).
Do not feel guilty! DH told my mother she was to stay away from me until after dd's birth.
I felt guilty yes but the difference it made to my birthing experience and to my bonding with dd was phenomenal.
If people choose to believe your mothers rubbish is it worth your worry what they think? Once again this should be about you and not your crazy making mother, and anyone with a level of normality about them would think that way too.
Can you tell I want to protect you from your mother .
[gets down from rant box and shuffles off stage left }

MH I dont think I was being brave to be honest. I didnt plan things the way they turned out. I just had a set of friends who turned out to be like my family. Wanting me to meet their needs.
I had to be party girl. Vodka downing, drug taking party girl. They weren't intersted in the festering sadness underneath. So when the sadness began to spill out. They left.
The loneliness was hard, depressing...but I guess in the long run I came out stronger.
It's hard to trust people but you have to eventually because as humans we are not built to be isolated and thats how abuse works. That's why the childhood for most SHomers is so beguilingly awful, it was the sheer loneliness of it.

rose any more thoughts on work?

PM you wrote something really insightful (I think it was you?) about having to take the abuse to recieve the love.
Thankyou for that because you really nailed it for me.
This is how it was for me with past BF's and my family. Anything rather than be abandoned.
I think it takes being abondoned as an adult child and getting through it and realising actually abondonment no longer means death as it would have as a kid. You wake up and think hell Im still here, you look your biggest fear in the eye by doing that and come out fighting.

thisis I loved your post about the scarf. I related to this a lot. I never wear anything different because I dont want to draw attention to myself.
Getting married for me was incredibly tough. All those people looking at me and all I wanted to do was shrivel up or run away.

grace I saw myself (still do) as the fat girl...the short fat girl actually. My mother never actually said it. Just implied it. All the time. It got worse the more I moved into womanhood.
I was the odd one out the outsider. My siblings are all blond haired, blue eyed (like my mother) I am dark like my father.
the insane thing is, when I look at pictures of me in my late 30's (only ones I have..taken after the 'Great escape overseas') I am actually (yikes) attractive. there is other evidence of my being attractive but I still cant feel attractive ever. I always feel like the odd one out, just like I did in my family.
I hate this projections of theirs dont you grrrr. x

And actually in those pictures taken during the great escape I look really bloody happy. Probably similar to your experience Grace getting away set you free for a time to be you.

And after two whole years Ive found out how to do italics hooray for me

oh dear, I have looked on bro's fiance's fb wall at her old posts, it seems she is a major drinker and smokes weed, she made several references to giving it up for the pregnancy. My bro was well into weed, thing is I know that it can cause paranoia and all kinds of issues long term use... also I was concerned for the kids, she has two from her marriage that ended, she met my bro very quickly and got preg quickly after her marriage ended... she seemed focused on the fact he had a porche, he was allways into status cars, and that he was sexy, loving and british... what was really sad is that she is saying he is a great father for her kids and has been great with the baby... I know him well I knew him up to our early twenties and I have know some of him since, he not lived in uk much, and he has been abusive to me so many times in our adult hood, only a year and a bit ago, when he was seeing her, so I know that nasty abusive streak is there inside of him still, i suppose the newness and honeymoon period nad the fact he was recovering from an accident, was not working, was bringing in money and is due a big payout helped things for them, the strain will start now, with a baby, so no more weekends child free as they had when her ex had the other two, back to weed smoking, his lazy ways will return, he will have to go back to work, the poor baby nearly died due to heart problems and had an op, lots and lots of problems and the strain will start to show, I am just glad I got in contact via fb for when things disintergrate for them which I think they will, how his last marriage lasted as long as it did I will never know, I am so sorry for those three kids, I know what he is like and what my parents were like, and he unlike me was always the entitled one, the golden child, the one in control and he was cruel, told lies, sneaky etc, kind of makes me feel sick and there is damm all I can do about it but block it all out, I am not going to give it too much thought or look too much at her fb page, ignorance is sometimes bliss!

I agree that you should definatly have the birth you want!

the real smith field, well done re the italics

Funny how the mothers are jealous of us as girls, I thought the same thing ladies, I think she enjoyed the game of making me fat, and i played along so nicely, i suppose it was to make her look better, like she was in competition with me, how sad... also she lied to us as kids, I remember being 13 and i found her passport, she had knocked eight years off her age, that was the first time I knew her to be a liar, she went nuts at me, I was so scared of her I didn't question it all, she was always going on about people lying about thier age, obsessed with it, i mean she would go on about it most days, she was also obsessed with bowl movements, she really enjoyed each meal time talking about it, she was a nurse, I hated meal times, she was going on about poo, father going on about someone who annoyed him, mugs flying, plates flying, always someone angry and never nice!

Apologies for being self-centred just now ...
... this post would sit equally well here or in NPD; I'm not sure if I just need to dump or want advice.

I feel that, maybe, I'm just beginning to grieve - for the lies I was told; for the values that taught me I don't matter and the truth is not my truth; for the fact that I sincerely do not care about myself. I want so much to do what (I imagine) others would prefer: to turn away from my fresh discoveries; to accept the self who runs on auto-abuse-pilot. I know that doing so has almost destroyed me before, and could do the job more thoroughly next time. Even worse, I suspect the difficulties I'm now suffering are inflicted by my abused self, if that makes sense to anybody? I am paralysed by sadness.

I don't know what the future looks like.
[sobs loudly]
Thanks for this thread; it means the world to know someone will read this and be bothered.

Message withdrawn

Grace, Maybe the fact that it is grief, is a good thing? That you have come so far that you recognise and acknowledge, and now can actually GRIEVE!?

There is no healing without grief...it is the outpouring of that pent up anger and stress. Maybe you are now in a place where you have the strength and the inner security to allow yourself to grieve. If that is so, it's actually an amazing thing.

You have said yourself, and it has been acknowledged by your therapist, that you have made giant strides recently.....and maybe this is that big "clearance" to get it out once and for all.

Same as what DIVING said really I suppose.

You can kind of enjoy the grieving process in a way. With art and music and melancholy at the beauty of a sunset and such like. Do you know what I mean?

Grief has such energy, it can be remarkably creative in it's power. Do you paint, write, play, sing....any of those things? Make a collage, play trashy songs that are guaranteed to MAKE you cry.

That energy can be captured to create what you DO want.

This isn't coming out right....I'll click post anyway

Oh, god, thank you SO much for your posts! Diving, that's beautiful and I shall refer to it often ...

Nothing I can do about my circumstances (44p until Thursday: rules out the seaside - and booze!) or, really, the birthday - and thanks for remembering it

I'm not a cryer but my eyes are stinging all the time, you know. Have just had a nap and am about to make a huge pan of pasta with TONS of garlic. Nobody around to smell me, anyway

I'll view this as a constructive period. Not sure if I feel able to 'yield' but it's nice to know my psyche thinks I'm up to it (I know my psyche likes garlic!)

I do love you

The thing that keeps astounding me, is the way that we are, where we are supposed to be. Trust that the universe, God, Gaia, whatever that THING is, seems to work.

I don't know how or why, but that sense of being connected to "the whole" seems to be an important part of this healing. It's the opposite of the disconnected, outwardly defined nature of abuse and co dependence and everything in between.

I would normally think of that as utter bunkum, but even the psychology books talk about our interconnectedness as something good and healthy.

Grief connects us doesn't it? It's something we all know and share. Especially if we really FEEL it. We are not being defined by others then are we? It is true and real, and it is who we are in that moment.

grace Try not to destract yourself away from it. Easier said I know. I am so tooled up when it comes to destracting myself from the rush of uncomfortable thoughts and emotions.
You may even if you dare intentionally think about something really painful and sad, and then sit back while it all comes up.
You do need to open the floodgates, you will be ok if you do, you can handle it.

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I love this thread.

Me, too, thisis.

I have just been thinking about exactly that - though (pax, Smiffy) I'm watching telly, smoking, wondering whether to take a sleeping pill AND switched the PC back on to see if any new posts. I'm having more than a bit of trouble "sitting with my feelings" this time ...

Yes, it is an authentic emotion of mine and I don't know what to do with it. One of my self-made 'therapy' posters says "All feelings are real, all emotions are valid." Largely thanks to you guys, I'm appreciating the worth of what's trying to happen in me. Honestly.

But I am lost. Have I never felt any real feelings, other than fear? What I thought was love turned out to be yearning, so that was an error or a lie. I have never really felt hatred. My only experience of safety was my moth in the loony bin, 7 years ago. I'm not sure I've ever done, or felt, anything at all without constantly evaluating it. Is this normal?

I cry in despair, sometimes, but very rarely cry like most people do. Of course, this is because I was thumped for crying and "you're horribke when you cry."

My creative outlets are writing and making things. I'm writing to you instead of "Writing", since I currently have no internal dialogue - or even monologue. I did just make a fabulous ratatouille, so that was creative if not expressive ... aarrgh!!

I am kind of interested in what's occurring, though: is that a detachment trick, do you think?

Okay, I'm now thinking about how some of you have been through this ... and about how much more fully (=better) you seem to have done it! Oh, bollocks.

Okay. I'm going back to the telly, and may well take a pill after this film. I'm knackered. I've asked my self to absorb that idea about developing inspiration from this sadness. It might even work

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Iknow!!! Waaah Thank you for the hugs; I need them. What keeps me going round the damn spiral is the realisation that I don't care about myself. A GP, having about my smoking, said "If I told you had heart disease and would die if you carried on smoking, you'd stop wouldn't you?" I said yes, because that's what he expected, but knew the real answer was no.

I have had a life-threatening illness so I know the urgency of the will to live. The desire to live is something different, though - and I don't really care, not like any healthy creature does & should. I am learning to care about myself, I think, but it's a minefield.

I'm off to a family barbecue inaminnit. I'll be using it as an exercise in staying Adult - and to get some sunshine, which has to do me good right now. I shall also be rebutting any scapegoat-style digs. Wish me luck, please, and have a nice afternoon! xx

Message withdrawn

As usual I got so much from your insightfull posts ladies, hugs to us all x

Thank you ,everyone.
So much wisdom,insight and compassion.
I am so self absorbed by sadness,tiredness, loneliness and so much I have to do all the time - no more than 3 hours sleep in last 48 hours.Can't add anything to what has been so beautifully said .

Grace hugs.You are lovely Listen to Diving,that last post has moved me deeply.I need to listen ,too.
thisis that was beautiful and moving ,too.I am reading a lot of books about spirituality,I believe that connection to the universal whole/love is the way forward.I am blocked for now,but maybe that's because of lack of sleep.

The lovely weather has made me sad,grieving for my baby girls Daddy,who we all thought was wonderful last summer.My best friend and soulmate,the only true love I 've had.
Only ,it wasn't true.

I know it is a Mummyshaped grief ,too.

Maybe surviving this will help me to move on from that somehow.I would not have found out about NPD if not for posting about him.That insight has cast different light on my understanding of the relationship with my parents.I thought I had got all that taped years ago....but I realise I've been acting out as a child with them all these years.Feeding mother,even when I kept away for 18 months. I will start a new journey as my baby starts hers.

The barbie was nice. Mum didn't go but sent some bits & bobs for me via Sis - good ones for a change!?!

A couple of weirdnesses happened, which acted as powerful reminders of how Sis is still acting out our family script. The polarisation between her kids is now so ingrained, she doesn't need to scapegoat the 'bad' child - the golden one does it for her. Golden Boy only spoke one word to me: not making assumptions here, lots of teenage boys are grumpy around their aunts, but I wonder if he's begun to resent my refusal to play along? Sis had a very peculiar go at me - I was, arguably, being a bit of a prat but her tirade at me was more of a character assassination than the gentle rebuke I deserved. I'm satisfied I remained Adult and open all afternoon, and caught a bit of sun. So that's all good!

Diving, are you mixing me up with someone else? I hope I'm not turning my back on my inner child, and certainly have no resistance to working with her - she still has some to working with me, perhaps, but we are in touch

Hope the week starts well for everyone at the Stately Home. xx

Hi all, sorry I haven't had time to catch up with everyones posts. Am going in for my CS tomorrow and just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who has replyed to my posts and reassured me that I'm not going crazy!

It seems like my mother is still up to her attention seeking ways. On saturday she told someone she was really worried how she was going to cope with working so much this week and having my DC's.......I'd already told her she isn't looking after them!!!! Nothing changes then. The bloody woman is deluded.

I'm looking forward to having my baby and that's what I'm going to concentrate on for now.

Catch up with you all again soon xxx

Oh good luck mampam xx

All the best mampam. New babies....yummy!

Grace I'm glad the bbq was better than expected.

I had a therapy session today. I was asked to write down ten good qualities that I posessed. That was ok. BUT then I had to read them out with he prefix: "I am".

I physically could not do it! In the end, the therapist acually held the door open and asked my parents, sisters and all those detractors in my head, to LEAVE!

I felt physically sick saying those words. I could hear them, the detractors/dementors in my head, telling me why I wasn't any of those things, and overwhelming GUILT at the fact that any of it might be true. I felt terror.

It was exhausting.

My husband has made an appointment at the doctors, I believe to ask for a referral to MH services. It's a long tall ladder, but maybe he has noticed that there might just be a first rung to walk towards...we shall see. I have dealt with him as an adult this weekend. I have been, and it has been very, very hard. But I look at my dc's...and there is no choice.