'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Yep, smithfield, she is, and your understanding is vastly appreciated! Thank you. x

LOL, the toddler stalking! My goodness, can't remember the last time I had a dignified toilet break, just me and radio 4! It is intensely irritating. I just thought that's what toddlers do, It's never occurred to me that DD might have an underlying anxiety, which I'm possibly making worse by trying to shoo her away or getting annoyed with her. Food for thought, thank you.

Vanilla I'm a SAHM too and can really relate to what you're saying; I think it's the lack of balance, the DC babble can be bearable if there's some "me" time to balance it, be that an adult conversation, a job that has at least some rewards, something. I think my PND with DD stemmed from this, because looking after my DD felt like all one way traffic, I felt like I had to give so much of myself and sometimes just wanted something back - something just for me - which is where the mourning for the unconditional love of a parent kicked in for me after years of feeling numb/immune to my upbringing and their continued behaviour. I, like you, have struggled to make new friends (although I am blessed with a lovely Dsis and DH and some good friends so it's not all terrible). In many ways I've become like my childhood self, fairly quiet and isolated, finding company in books or TV. But I live in hope that once the DCs are old enough, I will go out and actively seek a life just for me, either kick start my old career or retrain. Now you have a bit of time, is there anything you can go and do for you? Perhaps a course or something where you can meet adults and have a common ground to talk about. Trite suggestion, I know, but it might help.

Smithfield I am increasingly coming to realise how important the inner child work is. Have not attempted to go any further with Bradshaw's Homecoming, I want to do it properly with a counsellor, which will not be for a while, but I am determined I will do it.

One thing I need to remember is that my inner child is not my DD. Because the danger with my determination that she misses out on nothing is the danger that I push her to do the things I wanted to do when I was a child but never got a chance to do. DD likes music and dancing. I'd love for her to have piano and dancing lessons. But I will have to stop myself getting exasperated/angry if she tries this and hates it, because she is not me and she is living her own life, not the one I didn't have. I have already noticed a creeping tendency in myself to get annoyed with DD if she's not enjoyed certain activities, a horrible voice in my head mentally shouting at her "do you know how bloody lucky you are I take you to these things and give you encouragement. I got nothing from my parents!!" I'm really beginning to understand what Bradshaw said about not being a good parent just because you are doing the opposite of what your parents did - that that method of parenting can be just as messed up as our parents' methods. When I first read that it really pissed me off and made me feel down and a failure, but I've really started to understand the wisdom of that notion.

If we do get a piano for DD, I think I'll take lessons myself! Yay me!

What a fabulously perceptive, insightful and LOVING post, refreshers! Go buy yourself ... a bag of refreshers, you deserve a reward

Diving I too hope you're OK, your posts always mean a lot to me.

Grace thank you for the lovely compliment. I really understand where you're coming from, my mother was/is like a stroppy toddler and there was no room for any other children in our family either. You may not have had your own children, but it certainly sounds like you had to learn the art of mothering from an early age. And like all mothers, your needs had to take a back seat, or indeed, no seat, in favour of the child. Your small self must have felt terribly lonely, I am so sorry.

I've sometimes wondered whether I find my DD's tantrums and less desirable behaviour so difficult to deal with because it takes me back to childhood and the helplessness of dealing with someone who gets angered at seemingly nothing, is completely irrational and can't be reasoned with at any cost.

We need a giant dolls house. We can lock our mothers in there and let them play with some sharp instruments.....sorry evil thought....

refreshers Great post. Loved the way you described it as feeling like 'one way traffic'. I definately felt this too in retrospect.
When I had ds I felt jealous of dh going to work every day. I literally felt 'how unfair' that he could go and interact with the world while I sat at home pinned to the sofa.
I find the feelings of wanting dcs to enjoy things tough too/. I end up thinking or feeling ds is being 'ungrateful'. He is not, he is just being a child.
Argggh Its a blinkin minefield isnt.
Which is why rose your post has pulled me back to what needs to be my neutral zone. My safe zone.
This has to be for me to focus on being 'good enough'.
Its interesting to note that when I had just had dd I 'lurked' (too depressed to post) on the p.natal threads on here and it kept me sane to know other mums felt the same as me, except it wasnt seen as one extreme or another to them. Just normal insanity if that makes sense.
A lot of what any of us 'feel' is just normal.

lol at evil thought

Diving, I hear from your latest post that you are very angry, and that Vanilla's posts remind you of your own sister, that was very perseptive of you to realise that. I am sorry that you felt angry to the point of your last sentence.

Diving, do you want to discuss without discussing Vanilla, what is upsetting you so much?

Vanilla, I read Diving's post that upset you earlier, that has now been removed, I have a feeling that the post she has made above mine just now will also be removed due to the last sentence.

I am quite anxious myself, I was going to post regarding my issues, I have to say I am a bit put off now, as I really am not in the frame of mind that if I say something, I will get negative responses as a result, as it will not be helpful to me.

take care all and I will catch up with you all soon x

Diving, I was thinking more on this particular part of your message:

I am allowed an opinion. I was being constructive, not offensive. I will not apologise. And for asking me to do so when I was simply expressing my observations, which were accurate for others independently concurred with them, well, now I really am angry

What is it about apologies that is upsetting you so much? What is it about someone not liking your observations that is making you angry? I wonder if you can tackle what is behind that, it may help you understand the anger, and perhaps sadness that you are feeling right now?

take care x

I am sorry but whilst I can be understanding about someone's anger I think telling someone to 'fuck right off' is not the way this thread operates

This does indeed seem out of character with Diving's previous posts so I will assume the best, that she is in a lot of pain and sadness right now and she has been triggered massively by Vanilla.

I thought we went through all this, that yes people are entitled to their opinion but this is somewhere to be listened to and validated not verbally abused. If something upsets one about a particular post it can be expressed in an appropiate way or ignored

refreshers, what a relief to know I'm not alone. It is about achieving a balance as you say, balancing my needs and those of the DC's. My needs for adult company/conversation are not being met and therefore I am finding it hard to meet DD's need to be heard and listened to. Your suggestion about doing a course is not trite at all, it's very good advice and something I definately intend to do once DS starts full time school next year. My life is on hold until then it seems, there is just the time to do much in the short snatches of time I have in between 4 school/nursery runs every day.

diving you were not matter of fact or forthright in your post. What you said was not fact but merely your own opinion. You were personally insulting to me and you don't seem to give a hoot that you upset me. And as I suspected my posts were merely a trigger for you, not the real source or cause of your anger, which in actual fact is your sister. I suggest you direct your anger and insults and swearing at her, not me. You clearly have huge unresolved issues that you need to address, and instead of wasting your time reading my posts, I would strongly suggest that you work on your own issues. And I definately think I deserve an apology for being sworn at by you but I know I won't get one.

That's fine, I don't need or indeed want to be liked by you, diving, you are clearly a rude and nasty piece of work.

What's up? This thread is normally lovely to the max, no idea of what I've missed, will go catch up, took a couple of days out to try to feel 'normal' for a bit if you see what i mean

Something very similar happened between me & Rose on the last thread. Smithfield mediated wonderfully, and so did some others, but in the end I felt misunderstood, attacked, etc, and scooted off for a while - as did Rose.

Every so often, one of us remarks on the 'group therapy' nature of Stately Homes. Whilst it is obviously not the same as sitting face-to-face with each other, there are similarities: the ways in which we learn from one another's thoughts & feelings ... and the ways in we trigger one another.

Triggered negative feelings are educational in an environment like this, where the focus is on learning to understand our own nature and others. But the learning isn't always easy, or done in the most constructive way - as in everyday life.

Dare I suggest this sort of thing is inevitable sometimes? There's no real need for us all to be best mates here, we're simply negotiating a rocky, uphill path together. We all started out on this path at different times, for varying reasons, and with assorted equipment. We try to help each other. We can't always get it right.

I'm glad you're both back here, though - for purely selfish reasons. You both help me!

Diving why have all your posts gone? They were really helpful to me and I had been rereading

Can't remember if I said this before but I was 'Hesdoneitagain' when posting on this thread and I remember Whispy and TooMany, nice to see you

Hope everyone is ok

forstately
Dont be afraid to write about your stuff here now. That is still what the thread is for. You dont have to be polite and wait in the wings .
It will all be fine I promise.
Diving has probably deleted some posts in order to feel safe in RL, as in retain her anonymity.

I understand that we don't have to be best mates but we don't need to tell each other to 'fuck off' either.

So I am going to set healthy boundaries having had them violated all my life by my adoptive parents

I will not partake in this thread if verbal abuse is tolerated for whatever reason. It is not about taking sides, black aand white thinking etc

It is purely that I don't feel comfortable on a thread where being told to fuck right off seems justifiable

To quote the title thread 'one thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experiences were not that bad'

When Diving told Vanilla that she was whining on about being left out, that is exactly what happened. To Vanilla it was not just being left out or normal sibling squabbles. In her mind she was singled out for abuse.

To quote again 'you will never have your feelings minimised the way they were as a child' - being told you are whining, talk drivel etc is exactly that.

And to finish 'the insights and advice given will always be delivered with warmth and support' - Fuck right off doesn't really adhere to this does it

This is not a personal rant against Diving or anyone (I have found her posts very insightful and I am sure she is hurting) but this very thread has become Narcissistic if it tolerates such verbal abuse under the hypocritical veil of support and respect outlined above

For those reasons as it were I shall fuck right off

Rose, I might be being 'oversensitive' but did that hypocritical veil comment refer to my post?

'..but this very thread has become Narcissistic if it tolerates such verbal abuse under the hypocritical veil of support and respect outlined above'

I dont think anyone here has condoned what just happened rose. Im sorry if you feel they have. I really am.

We have been down this road before and there is no way that you can control what all people write on here all of the time.
99.9% of the time it does keep to its promise of being a judgement free zone.

I know I've not been on this thread long, and I ducked out too when I felt upset posting here, but I really hope none of you stop posting or that you at least come back soon. Your sharing of your experiences has been brave and given tremendous comfort to loads of people who thought they were alone and freaks, people like me. In addition, your insights and shared knowledge from books, therapy, RL has been invaluable. But the best part is that you all - and I'm beginning to feel like I belong here and so I'll say WE all - bounce our experiences off each other, really relate to each other and yes, get triggered by each other, which surely is a good thing because isn't that the path to personal insight? I know it's spilled over today into something darker, but surely we can deal with this. Sorry, I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say, just that I hate this sort of conflict, people on here have shared and supported each other so much, if people do walk away I just feel like it's handing a victory to our abusers because who else sufferers other than ourselves and each other?

refreshers Thankyou for that. It means a lot that you are beginning to feel that way here. I really thought I might have triggered you before, when you left .
Too wrapped up in my on doings. Im so glad you came back.

Well said in your last sentence there, refreshers

When I 'walk away' from this thread, it will because I no longer need it - not for any abuse, inverted or direct.