Counting, Whenwill, Happy, AF and all of you?

[gonnabehappy]

I am spending a lot of time online at the moment. It is this weekend, the second anniversary of me finding out and just over a year that husband returned home.

The advice, especially that given to Cat, is fantastic. I have read and reread your posts.

What I am fighting with is this; I still don't really know from him why he had an affair. The most I get from him is an "I don't know".

It is an uphill battle here (mainly in me!). You may recall he only returned home when OW rejected him; he choose her. He also lied about lots for months.

Should I say to him; 'why?'. Have I left it too late. I feel like I need to know. I know some stuff, he found me unattractive, sex with her was fantastic, he hated(s) our life. You know, the financial grind and hard work boys. We have little in common other than the boys now. Over the last couple of years our relationship has turned into what he told the OW it was. We are usually friends and rarely lovers. Before OW I adored him. I still love him...I think.

Counselling - tried and have not found that right counselor and money is a real problem.

Please help if you can. He has this next week off work and I am on tenterhooks.

Gonna, I feel for you. I will try to help in any way I can, but you well know that I think you have a problem that only you can overcome and rationalise. Your H has never really dug deep and examined himself. He has failed you terribly, not just by having his affair, but in his approach to your recovery as a couple and as individuals.

I'm saddened, but not surprised by what your relationship has become. A few of us said to you last summer that the spirit in you was kicking back. You might have wanted to be the forgiving spouse, but in the absence of real contrition from your H and understanding about his affair, the sane rational woman in you couldn't do it. I understand that woman and think she is right.

Why was the counsellor not the right one? You seemed to have high hopes of her at the start of the year.

How much have you really thought about being on your own? Can you see any positives to that?

The counselor was a nice woman. She indicated she was going to go down the route of my childhood, my alcoholic father etc. At £50 a session this had to be something we both wanted...and even then we still do not have the money now to pay for 6 sessions in advance. I was going to ask my father but he was taken ill and I have lost the momentum. Some of this is that I just do not want to face being told it is all my fault and who can blame him fir trying to find happiness elsewhere.

Over the past few months he has been brilliant. He tries hard never misses a kiss or a text and is very very constant. The battle is within me now. The boys are far more settled as the atmosphere here is pretty good. Do I settle? Do I push for more from him? I am very lethargic (tried and failed to give up smoking again and weight creeping up). As for work - I am back where I was in the concentration stakes. I just don't want to live like this.

I can't face returning to Dr to ask for ADs to be increased again. This is all new over past two years - I was really competent strong and funny. Honest!

I believe you Gonna, I believe totally that before this happened, you had a very different outlook on life.

I do think however that the approach to counselling in your case was flawed. I think your H needs psychotherapy to get to the bottom of why he did this - and all the other very selfish things he has done to you throughout your long relationship.

I think you need some help asserting what you need from him and although perhaps there are clues in your childhood about why you put up with so much for so long, the counselling you should get should be the opposite of being told it was your fault and that he had no choice but to seek happiness from elsewhere. Rather, it should explore why you have accepted so much selfishness for so long.

A catalyst needs to happen - and it is not too late. It doesn't matter that he has been "brilliant and constant" - he still isn't emotionally intelligent enough to give you what you need.

Bloomin heck! Wish you were my counselor. You have turned it on its head. Need to think before replying. Thanks

The "I don't knows" are so frustrating aren't they? That's what I got for a while and when I mentioned it to my counsellor he said that it was most likely the truth - he doesn't know why!

It's all the more difficult for you at the moment because the anniversary is looming but it is never too late to ask questions.

I don't think your counsellor took the right route for you - I made it clear to mine that I didn't want or need to revisit my childhood - I wanted to be able to deal with this particular issue in the here and now.

Can you write yourself a list of the questions you want answered leaving out the 'why?' question? It all forms part of a larger jigsaw and maybe the 'why?' question is too general.

I agree - I never wanted to go back over my childhood - or in fact over his.
However over the months i think we have both learned to look to ourselves for the answers that ARE within us.

I believe he does not know why he did it - My h said the same and it is a difficult thing to do.

I also think gonna - you do need to find what it is YOU WANT and NEED now.
Just because he is being husband of the year NOW does not mean it is what you want anymore.

It is ok to feel the way you do - why do you think it is your failing to now not want him?

And it is never too late to question that either. If you need answers now then you deserve them - the question is though what are the consequences for him if he is unable or unwilling to give you them???

Good luck - and please do email me if you want to.

Take heart in the fact that i too still have days when i feel down and not sure of the future - but actually now i dont care anywhere near as much. I feel my h loves me and i can be who i am - and if that is unhappy for a while that ok.

Another thought is I wonder if you want to be 'proved right'.
You dont believe he is with you for the right reason and so a part of you wants him to leave you so you can be 'right' be the victim and get the sympathy.

I too think i had thoughts like this - and it is because i never felt i was good enough for him.

I wasnt good enough therefore he had an affair and so why am i now good enough??..... it goes around and around. He wants me to trust him i cant and so on and so on.

Our counsellor said I needed to trust myself to not allow myself to be used again - i did not have to trust my h until i was ready. That helped.

I am not a bad person to not fully trust - and you are not either.
Also your marriage can survive without trust for a while - it will take a long time to recover and just because you doubt and question yourself does not mean you are not commited to it. And actually does it matter if you are not???
My h wants to re-do our vows - i dont think i do - i know they will not mean the same to me now as they once did. But i do not think my marriage is worth any less - it is just different.

find the different relationship you want now.

Have read and thought and thought again.

No I am not hoping for a way out that makes me the good guy, but yes Happy I have felt like that at times. I am now absolutely certain I want our family to stay together.

I want to feel loved, and to feel safe to love/ I want back that never crossing the kitchen without a hug, eyes meeting etc etc.

Karmann, I think you might well be right on the "I don't know". Struggling to think of the 'smaller' questions though.

When, yes I think there is a good deal of truth in your comments. I think the question is what I have been happy to put up with, and why. Clearly this also leads to the conclusion that no wonder husband thinks it is Ok to be like he is. I adored him (with some silent resentment) despite some of the things he has done/said.

All in all I just don't know what to do or think. He is here now and will be here for the whole of next week. We are acting (being?) good friends and this is th ideal recipe for a good family week.

so he is there - it is 'normal' - so what is wrong??

Do you doubt yourself that this is what you want? Do you feel you are 'only acting' and therefore he probably is?

Do you feel he has been punished for his crime (or punished enough)? My counsellor asked this and actually i think she was right - i felt he had not really been punished enough - he had always got what he wanted - even the coming back on his terms.
I dont know what it was i really wanted - to slap him, shout and scream, cut off parts of his anatomy! But i knew i needed something - justice needed to be done.

And i suppose him wanting to find out why he acted the way he did was enough - seeing him face some of his demons in order to 'better' himself was enough.

I hope that makes sense to you.

I think also i felt i had failed myself in someway too. Could i honestly look back on that woman i was and admire her?? No she was weak and certainly not the strong woman i am today - it was/is hard to love yourself when think like that. I needed to forgive the person i was then too.

For me (and i think whenwill has this too) having to explain to my teenagers my actions really helped. I am not sure i would advice my daughter to do what i did iyswim - but because i have to justify it to her it helps.

Of course the past shapes who you are today but I truely feel i am not a prisoner of it anymore.

I often wonder about how a conversation between me and ow would go now.
I suspect she would say i was a fool - for having him back.
But i really dont feel a fool - i have now had 3 more happy years, i now have the h i always wanted. i have been given the chance to change my life also.
If she said that now i think i would smile to myself and not feel i have to justify myself to her.

And if it all comes crashing down or he does have another affair i will cope - and if ow wants to call me a fool she can. None of us know what the future brings after all.

Gonna - try and enjoy the week - no-one can take those good times from you - find some things that make you smile inside - you are the only one that matters.

Hi

I think he has been punished enough; and think I am being honest when I write this. It did strike a chord and I thought long and hard whilst walking the dog in the rain. No, I do not want to punish him anymore.

Acting was another thought I picked up on. I think that I feel as though he is acting, I feel as though he is doing the right thing etc I don't feel as though he loves me. So, following your train of thought (and picking up on Whenwill's) the next question was what would make me feel as though everything was genuine? What would make me feel loved? And maybe even why do I want to feel loved? Have got stuck here.

He is walking with me later - if it is not too wet maybe we can talk a little.

PS Good news - I have new boots and did not get wet feet this morning! Just wanted to add something that was not moany.

Why wouldnt you want to feel loved? - lots of people do.

Why question your needs?

And dont feel bad that now you have identified one of your needs (to feel loved). Why is it so bad to be 'stuck' here? This is not the way you used to feel but maybe you have to accept that you will never feel that way again - and its ok.

You have for a long time taken for granted that he loved you but his actions at the time of the affair showed you that he didnt - and now you cant rely on him 100% for that 'loved' feeling. Thats ok too you know. I used to be very scared of being alone - but i am the only person who is with me all the time and it is only me that has to like who i am. If for any reason i am left alone i know i will be ok.

I am going to guess that more than needing his love you need your own, and you now need to make that adjustment in yourself.
It is not easy and you will not be the same person - and maybe your h will not actually like the 'new' you!! Do you think you are worried about this?

Always here for you - and you know where i am if you need to email more.

I am so tired, just can't see how to change myself. I don''t like me (you are right) but stuck. Vivid dreams of returning to the career I had pre-children. Perhaps a clue? Who knows. Feeling pretty despairing - Easter Sunday 2008 my whole life changed. No seems to have noticed, maybe a good thing.

Fuck fuck fuck feeling desperate - desperate to kick myself into a new life. Want to opt out of this one. HW you have been fab thanks and sorry - an a bit of an arse really.

You are allowed to have days feeling down and it's best to go with them - Easter is obviously a time for a man to dump DW for OW . Been discussing DH's affair alot over weekend to get a "joint" understanding of it - basically come up with the fact that he is/was a monogamus (sp?) infidel ie couldn't compartmentalize and fancied himself in love with OW so had to leave me. Also he had demonised me and wanted to hurt me as well for all the problems I had caused in his life (obviously it was mostly in his head). What he did at the time was appalling and it is hard to get past but what is the alternative ?

DH is doing everything he can to make amends, we are making time for each other and having more "fun". Maybe you should do little things like go out for a meal just the two of you and build from there.

They say dreams are our sub-conscious talking so maybe you are right about your pre-children career, maybe worth looking into if it made you happy then. They also say you should do whatever made you happy in your childhood as well. What did you like doing in your childhood ?

I had a dream last week whereby I was chased by an ugly, spanish speaking vampire !!!! Any ideas ??? I can't get over the fact he was so ugly - not like all the current TV programs !!!!

gonna
Your younger (happy) self - would she have put up with your life?
What would she have done?

I feel you are afraid to even think about leaving because you are not happy (not because of the affair) but because you are not enjoying life.

Think about a lovely man that for whatever reason you just cannot 'connect with' - just because he is a good man does not sentence you to a life of misery with him does it.

Are you scared that he will blame you for the break-up now if it happened? Are you scared that actaully you still wont be happy? That he being a lovely man will find happiness with someone else?

I can really relate to all those feelings too. But you know you are not being true to yourself if you supress those now are you.

Wanting more than you have now is not a bad or evil thing. - It is not the same as him having an affair is it? You dont want to lie to him or anyone but in fact i feel you are lying because you are trying to be 'happy' and content with your life when you so clearly are not.

What is the worst that can happen? I think you are scared you will more miserable than you are now?? Am i right?

Do you think you can be?

It is hard to admit to ourselves that sometimes we just cant do it anymore.

What do you want to tell your boys later? How do you want them to see you?

I think you need a bit of time without the worry of the marriage to 'find' yourself - if he loves you he will still be there for you.

I really feel for you and wish i could come for a walk with you and talk.

I now have some parts of my life very seperate from h - something i found hard (so does he actually).
I have some frineds now that are mine and do not involve him. At first i felt very selfish about this - i would never have done anything like this before.
Some are my internet friends and some are old friends i have looked up again.

My h has always been a bit selfish and he really does not like it too much when i dress up to go out with them - he was an only child and wants everything his way.
At first i really felt as if i was betraying him in some way - silly i know but that is how i felt,

But i really do feel so much more in control of my life for forging my own little piece of it.
I know i have said before but i will say it again.
I keep h in my life because i want to - he makes it better in lots of ways.
But if i felt it was not working for any reason i would not be scared to end it for my own happiness. I could hold my head high - say i had not lied/cheated - but that i was just not happy.
It is also why i can defend my postition to others who say they could not stay - actually i am happy to be where i am - i would never have dreamed that before but i am.

And just because you cannot get over this does not make you a bad person in any way - you are the way you are and should love that about you - and if your h loves you he will understand and let you go and find yourself.

I know you will struggle next week so do keep in touch.

counting - i think you are very brave to be able to forgive the fact that he wanted to hurt you.
I really dont think my h wanted to hurt any of us - which is why the lies continued - to protect me and of course himslef.
He was selfish but not a nasty man - in fact knowing what i do about the ow i dont think she woudl have liked him if he had made me out to be horrible anyway.

When you say 'what can i do? - he is doing all he can' - you can still be angry and want to punish him.

I really dont agree with the fact that after a certain amount of time you have to move on. some days you feel fine and then out of the blue something hits you and it is understandable to want to punish again. I know my h takes it all - just because i want to discuss it does not mean i want to hurt him again and again it is because i am hurting and want to 'share' that with him. He never makes me feel bad about talking about it now. It takes a long time to get to that place though. But suffering alone i dont believe is the answer.

I think what I was trying to say Happywoman is that I want him in my life with the pain rather than not in my life but still with the pain IYSWIM. It's only a year down the line so can be difficult still. If I'm honest he is probably struggling more than me, the DC only have to do something "funny" or "sweet" and he thinks back and realises how different things could have been if he had continued down his self-destruct path.

As I said he has only recently acknowledged things that he had denied or "didn't know" or "couldn't remember" before so he is only now willing to discuss more openly. I think I knew what he was denying so for him to now acknowledge is a relief.

FWIW the worse part/most hurtful part of his behaviour was in the first two weeks he left and was with OW 24/7 and only listening to her. One of the things he struggles with is that he allowed himself to be manipulated by her and was too weak/caught up in the affair to see what was happening. When she told him to call the police on me and have me arrested, he began to realise the type of woman she was and he had hooked up with. She tried to convince him he was a victim of DV because I had hit when he said something particularly vile to me (and bearing in mind the traumatic state I was in at the time). Our therapist has told him in no uncertain terms that he was not a victim of DV and I was more the victim of EA !!!!! What type of woman would be happy to deprive DC of their father and mother in the space of two weeks - as I said to DH she wanted to replace me totally, she wanted him to go for custody and move into the house.

Every affair is different, I actually think I have quite a lot to forgive although I haven't told DH that. He knows what he did was vile and has so much respect for me now because I am/was willing to repair the marriage. We are going away much more as a couple (not easy with 4DSs) but the family seem more willing to babysit now funnily enough after everything that happened .

My DH has also changed completely which would not have happened if he hadn't hit rock bottom and boy, was she rock bottom . He admitted that he has probably lied throughout our relationship, little things to begin with.

We are beginning to get to the stage where we can have little (black) jokes about the affair. I feel I have turned a corner just by getting him to acknowledge what he didn't want to. I feel lighter because what he was saying before didn't add up/make sense IYSWIM.

He has behaved like a 5yr old all his life (complicated childhood) which explains all the childish behaviour eg wanting to hurt me for his perceived "hurts" etc.

Like you, he knows I will not tolerate anymore bad behaviour at any level. He doesn't even like seeing certain friends any more because they do have the same outlook as him any more IYSWIM.

The last year, I think, will turn out to be the most important to both of us. Yes there are days when I feel very sad/pained but those are becoming less and the pain not so painful. He knows when I am feeling bad and is getting better at handling it - as he says it reminds him of what he did at that time and that is what he finds difficult to cope with.

Sorry for the waffle.

Gonna, I had a friend who decided she couldn't get past her H's infidelity, she just said I couldn't bear to look at him and asked him to leave. They get on well now, strict joint custody of the DC (literally each have the DC half the week) so you do have a choice even a temporary separation, to give you some space to find out what you really want.

Can I please hijack? I could do with some advice from the ladies here, I think you all know my story.

Well 2 weeks ago I told H I missed him. Last Friday he asked for a chat; we discussed emotions. He knows I want him back. We ended up stopping just short of having sex. We both miss each other, parts of put relationship, both fancy each other.

Ten minutes after he left, he text saying he's sorry but can offer any more than friendship. Then Saturday night he asked if swing each other wasstill up for consideration - I said I want someone who wants ME.

Yesterday he said he feels more positive and I asked what's happening now, he said lets see how it goes.

Now I have issues.

Is this the start of a reconciliation? Am I just a sex thing?

On one hand he's saying his life is uncomplicated now, wants his own house for dc to stay, how it's getting easier etc. On other hand he's saying he misses me, thinks of how we were, doesn't think the grass is greener, can't bear the thought of dcs one day living
with another man. Said he wants to come over and watch a film soon, be nice to spend time with me.

He text me alot yday and again today, sometimes
about dcs and sometimes about me.

I don't know what to do he's not saying about long term goal of marriage working, but I mentioned divorce last week and he totally dismissed it/got cross. I don't want to hang on but I don't want to say no to anything that could lead to a reconciliation.

I don't even think it's time yet to attend relate as that implies a commitment and he very much wants to see how it goes. I'm not even sure if I am too fearful of a single life and it's clouding my judgement.

What on earth is going on?!

GBH....am late to respond to your shout-out

have read the thread and would feel a fraud to add any more to the fantastic replies you have had

I wanted to say I always follow your posts and wish you well

and the other thing I would say around all the wonderfully supportive posts you have had...it is ok to decide you cannot forgive

you have tried...he has not given you what you need

all the time you have spent would not be wasted, were you to decide you cannot get past this devastating bombshell

that is all...but then you will know I am from the school of "leave the bastard" thought

scorps, my love

anything I could say to you...you will not want to hear

Anyfucker I love you - I already know, you know. It's so hard to let go and I feel so stupid on so many levels.

Thankyou and I'm sorry for thread hijack

don't you run away, scorps

GBH would not mind the hijack, I am sure

I think it significant though, love, that you didn't start your own thread

are you hoping to go "under the radar" at all ?? < peers over bi-focals > < hitches up boobies >

you are not stupid...don't ever believe that

go back and read your old epic thread...what would be very, very self-destructive is to put yourself through all that again

you love this man with all your heart and all your being

so does he

there is nothing more to say after that...some things are just not meant to be xxx

scorps...I so wish I was near to you, I mean that so very much.

it is a year today that my H left- me having asked him to go.

Its been the hardest year. H went for OW instead of me when I said I could forgive him.

Hes now talking about reconciliation.

Im going to sort it out once and for all in the next few weeks as Im not going to take this situation any more. Hes still f'ed up by his family background and not fully contrite or working on himself.

Dont want to hijack but finding this thread so useful

Waves to Scorps

counting - i know what you mean.

Do you know the ow also tried to persuade h to go for custody and encouraged him to fight me for the dc. It took him a long time to see but when he did he was horrifed that he could even like a woman who would try to take our dc away from their mother. My only crime was i was heartbroken and very low and so it appeared i was not coping - i had lots of lovely friends who helped.

Interesting we too have more time for us now - and also have 4dc and family are very good too.

Scorps - I know it is hard but try and 'just enjoy' this time. You have set yourself some boundaries - such as starting the divorce. dont let YOUR boundaries be eroded. The divorce is for YOU not to hurt him. I fear he is trying to make it about him and just give you enough to keep you where you are.

Stay strong - it hasnt frightened him off yet so dont doubt yourself and the strength and power you have now.
Personally i would still start the divorce process - it is not final for a long time. It will show him that you do mean what you say even if he doesnt. Good luck.

gbh my h had an affair in 2007/2008. We are still together. These are the things that helped me:

1. H owning the fact he'd fucked up (no pun intended!)and being active in wanting to work on repairing the relationship. He went to the clap clinic, went for counselling, gave me his passwords for email/phone etc., starting looking for another job immediately, told me everything (this took a few days - bit of a drip feed unfortunately), gave me time to mull over whether I would actually stay with him (did not put pressure on me), helped ++ with ds (I was incapable tbh - too distressed to function adequately). Even then, it was quite a long time before I was sure I wanted to give it a go. 2 years on I still have wobbles (sometimes daily). I don't know how to get rid of these so I have to learn to accept them.
2. Being more selfish. Going to the gym, buying new clothes, going out with friends more often, doing less housework. No longer feeling guilty for being tired from work/childcare.
3. Couple counselling. We had rogerian/humanist counselling. It was very helpful. I don't find psychodynamic counselling at all helpful (sounds like the type you had) - imho you really need to choose your counsellor carefully)

It sounds like your h has not done enough work on himself and I am not surprised that you feel dissatisfied with your relationship as it stands. Also not surprised that your self-esteem is low. What do you think you need from h?

Scorps - I agree completely with AF so will refrain from saying anything, other than I feel for you