Counting, Whenwill, Happy, AF and all of you?

[gonnabehappy]

I am spending a lot of time online at the moment. It is this weekend, the second anniversary of me finding out and just over a year that husband returned home.

The advice, especially that given to Cat, is fantastic. I have read and reread your posts.

What I am fighting with is this; I still don't really know from him why he had an affair. The most I get from him is an "I don't know".

It is an uphill battle here (mainly in me!). You may recall he only returned home when OW rejected him; he choose her. He also lied about lots for months.

Should I say to him; 'why?'. Have I left it too late. I feel like I need to know. I know some stuff, he found me unattractive, sex with her was fantastic, he hated(s) our life. You know, the financial grind and hard work boys. We have little in common other than the boys now. Over the last couple of years our relationship has turned into what he told the OW it was. We are usually friends and rarely lovers. Before OW I adored him. I still love him...I think.

Counselling - tried and have not found that right counselor and money is a real problem.

Please help if you can. He has this next week off work and I am on tenterhooks.

Counting I've been thinking about you a lot this weekend and I'm so pleased at the progress you've made. It's pretty impossible to move on when things really don't make sense and you were right to keep plugging away trying to prick your H's denials. I would always advise people in recovery now to trust the betrayer's actions, not what he says was in his head. I am so glad I had phone bills, E mails and the contents/dates of texts I had seen, to prove my point - but on other issues where I had no proof, just what my H did and said with/to OW proved the truth, as opposed to what he said he was feeling at the time. Actions always speak louder than words.

Scorps please don't go there.

Gonna you don't believe he is being genuine because he isn't. What ever he says about being sorry, he isn't really. He was trying to contact OW a few months ago and was thinking of ringing her, wasn't he? He constantly tells you that you are weak to need ADs, cigarettes and no doubt comments about your weight too. He was hopelessly half-hearted about the counselling. In addition to the OW, he got off with your friend - a friend who he's been more than happy to see on his own from time to time.

From his point of view, he has got back his comfortable life where he can go to his sporting activities, go to work and live more or less as before. It's a bit irritating when you have a meltdown occasionally and won't have sex, but there's never been much of a penalty for being so cruel to you.

And you wonder why you can't move on?

It is pointless and impossible trying to forgive someone who isn't genuinely sorry.

Thankyou all for your support

he has further text me and rang to ask about his bank... I almost think he wanted me to get him a form or borrow money ( he still has a bank card to my account you see, doesn't and wouldn't touch the money but can see what I have....)

I don't know what to do. I'm really sorry but I want my marriage to work. He knows this. I don know if he's having thinking time, or just hanging me on in the hope of sex etc.

I don't even want to be divorced from him. But I think it's going to have to be me who starts it.

I'm so scared of my future, I can't imagine even fancying another man let alone loving one.

scorps, of course you will not be able to imagine fancying another man while you are still so enmeshed with this (bad for you) one

cut him free...and set yourseelf free to move on

who cares what his feelings/motives are ?

don't you dare borrow money on his behalf...if you do that you will sincerely regret it

Oh no, I think maybe he wanted to borrow some of my money lol

I care what his motives are

sorry, stick, wrong end of

but don't lend him money either

if he has money troubles they are his own concern the feckless idiot

Scorps - do read that thread again - you know the one I mean. And...yes this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black or as my mum would say do as I say not as I do. Stay away form him. He needs to do a whole load of growing up before he is anywhere near man enough for your and the children.

As for me, I am sad but smiling. Thanks for all your support and thoughts. I think the advice to be more selfish in terms of getting a life is the way forward.

PS I have not had a cigarette for four days - now that is a small triumph!

"PS I have not had a cigarette for four days - now that is a small triumph!"

It is if it's for you Gonna - just hope you aren't doing this for him.

gonna - try looking at a different way.

How would you feel if he just said what you have?
'still smiling but sad' Would you think he was being fair to you?? No you want him to be with you because you make him happy. By not telling him EXACTLY how you feel you are in fact being dishonest with him arent you?

I think you then have your answer - you know that it is wrong to 'just pretend' - you are scared of what any change means for you.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but i do feel as if both you and your h are 'scared' to really say how you feel for fear of hurting the other.

He is scared to open up to you about the affair and you are scared to tell him how you feel now.

The trouble is this is just festering away and will keep coming back to haunt you. You dont trust him and his motives because actually you dont know your own reasons for staying with him.

I think you both have to really face the fact that there is a problem and if you are both willing to do the work together you will find a way of doing that.

Scorps - i dont know the whole story - but i think maybe you should seperate your money - can you get a different card to your account?

Have had small chat with him. We are definitely split up.

I think alot of it is fear of my future, and naturally missing him, feeling stuck with dc etc.

you will be ok, scorps, seriously

I will meet you back here in 12 months time and we will see about that !

He knows. I told him last week that I thought we had no real future. He was unable to talk then, boys around and I was a little tearful. He said we would talk. He has not been to work for 5 days but no talk. This is not the first time he does not take me seriously just ignores and hopes it will go away.

Will be does not tell me I am fat etc now. I just can see it in his face. He would say I imagine it and he might be right.

Why do you have to wait for him to initiate a conversation? Gonna, I don't know your H but even I know from all you've said over the past year that it'll be a cold day in hell when he comes to you for a chat....which is of course part of the problem, isn't it?

If you don't see a future and you mean it, stop dropping bombshells like this and then doing nothing about it. Of course he thinks it will go away, it always has before, hasn't it?

Yep I never follow through.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 06-Apr-10 13:03:50

Great, great post.

There's such a thing as persistence that works against your own best interests, GBH, or call it pride, or the desire to finish what you started, or get it 'right'. Or malignant optimism. And there's also the fear of the unknown making the known seem more palatable.

Your H's demeanour shows that he considers that the ball is now firmly in your court, and that he has washed his hands of further responsibility in the future of your marriage. While you twist in the wind, he plays games with your mind and your heart. Anyone who tells you that you are imagining things after all that you've been through at his hands, is downright incapable of 'getting it' and is not thinking in terms of 'relationship'. Trust your instincts about where his heart lies (and it's not in your marriage) -- they're trying to save you.

Please do some research on counsellors and try to find someone who takes a different approach; there's absolutely no need to reinvent the wheel and rake over your entire childhood. Something that will help you form a different perspective on the present and on your own strengths might be in order.

Scorps, fear of the future is the kind of thing that dissipates day by day.

Gonna - that is so sad and i feel so for you.
He knows you want to talk and he still can not find the time to do that? .
Sorry for sounding harsh but which of your needs is he meeting?

None of really know if our h will be there in our hour of need but we have a pretty good idea when we can rely on them - that is the reason we invest in our marriage.

I know i joke about it but i could rely on my h to look after the children (yes can order a take-away - and find a laundry to do the washing). Couldnt cook anything more than beans on toast and certainly wouldnt know which buttons to press on the washing machine.

Gonna i feel you have invested so much of you into this marriage that you getting zero interest for your efforts and that is even with this recession!

Why does it matter to you if he thinks you fat or not. I am overweight (the numbers on the scales tell me that). But I do think i am fit - I can run and i am flexible. My h would not dream of calling me fat - he does sometimes comment when i wear cothes that dont flatter as much and i respect his opinion when we are going out.

Gonna - I think you have been 'trained' like a dog to think this is the way a marriage works.
But it doesnt - really it doesnt.

I dont know for what reason he is staying there - is he being cruel - he may say he wants it to work but is not doing anything about it.
A bit like my h staring at the washing machine and wondering why it is not working.

Tell him today - tell him you need more - you need him to talk and if it meant anything to him he would find a way to make that happen.

Good luck - and please do keep talking to us.

We have talked I have cried. Nothing said really. Oh he says he loves me and wants to be with me. He saud bread scared of being on his own but nothing changes. What next. He says he wants me to be happy. I feel as though he is being belatedly honourable and is doing the right thing. He obvously thinks it I'd impossible go get through to me. And maybe he is right. I told him I did not move him buti think I was lying. Not sure now. I just don't know. We talked but did not talk. Maybe I did not listen.

gonna - its not that it is impossible to get through to you - but why should you just believe him now??

He has to prove to you again and again and again - and if he cant then i think you must both accept that it is not working.

I also feel that he is saying he is doing everything and thereby putting the ball back in your court - ie it is not able to do more so it must be you that is lacking.

Gonna - i am going to say it again - you are not happy are you? - you have given this marriage a long time to make you happy and i fear that very soon you are going to have to face that maybe it is never going to make you happy. It dosent really matter what happened in the past now - RIGHT NOW you are not happy.
I have vowed myself to not stay in my marriage if i do not feel happy again.
Or course there will times when there are lows or i feel a bit low - but i can honestly say that i can look at my marriage and say it makes me happy.
I just wish you could do the same - you seem like such a lovely person and dont deserve this.

Have you looked outside the marriage to make you happy?

Of course you are scared and so is he - but is it not better than thinking that this is what your life could be like from now on.?

Take care and i really do hope you find the strength within yourself to be honest with yourself and your h.

I was thinking today - how do you think your dc will react if in a few years time you confess to not being happy? Will they not think their childhood was a lie?
Who are you putting on the happy face for - your children - is it a lie you are going to carry on forever?

and gonna - its ok to not know if you love him or not.
At least you are questioning it now.

I think you are scared he will blame you for not being able to be happy. Is that correct? He probably will - the men i know who have 'lost' their wives will often find blame. You cannot control that you know.
If you search your soul and find you really cannot forgive him that is ok - it does not make you a bad person - you have given it your best shot and tried your hardest.
Let him rant and rave and call you a miserable *.
Hold your head high knowing that you are a good person. If he does get angry - shame on him too.

Keep talking it through and writing it down it may all click into place soon.

I second that post of yours, HappyWoman. It's no reflection on your character, GBH, or your personality, to need something that millions of women take for granted, the certainty that they are with a man who loves them to bits and wouldn't do anything behind their backs, and has every intention of living up to their promises.

I don't think this is a matter of will, or mind over matter. Something has been taken from you GBH, and if you're not happy with what you have got instead, you don't have to accept it. It's up to the person who did the taking to make sure the new thing is what you want. You don't have to accommodate yourself to whatever he feels you should accept.

Yes there is not 'should do' in these situations.
I could not say how i would react in any given situation.

We all like to think we would do what we think to be the 'right' thing - but really who knows?? I know i am very different to who i thought i was.

Gonna - this is a chance you have been given to find out more about who you are. Grab it and enjoy whoever you are.

I want to sleep for ever. Thanks HW. You are stalwart. X

I am ok. Promise I will think. Thanks for being nice.

gonna
please email me again - not sure i still have your address.

You sound so worn down and tired by it all - life should not be like that for anyone.

Take out your h affair from the equation and ask yourself if you are happy?

I know i wasnt before my h affair. I was ok - had nothing to complain about. He was a good provider of material things - we had a fantastic life. But with hindsight i can see that it was just a 'pretence'. At that time i did not question myself about much - i could do what i wanted when i wanted. we had holidays that we wanted. From the outside the perfect family unit.
But there was something missing - i had lost myself in the family.

H affair - shock my world to the core - everything i believed i suddenly had to question.

I want to somehow make you break free from your marriage (which is not the same as giving up on it or leaving it). But to see that what you have NOW is no good for you, and that only YOU have the power to change that.

My day to day life is pretty much as it was (except i think a lot less about how h is feeling).
He is still a good provider and we still have a good life.
But what i do feel now is that we are a team - we both want the same things. How do i know that? We talked and listened to each other. we dont always agree - but now are more tolerant of each other.
We have also stated our needs to each other. Not in a tit for tat way.
H knows i need him to be honest with me and i have to show my appriciation for him. I think i used to take him for granted a lot and would not greet him when he came in from work.

I can honestly say there is no resentment - i dont feel tied to this marriage anymore either. My old beliefs of for better for worse - richer poorer........ dont count anymore.
Only one rule now - do we make each other happy and do we enhance each others lives?

I know you feel stuck - and i too have had depression and what that black tunnel feels like. But you can do it and i have faith in you that you can find yourself again - just being able to tell us your feelings shows you can do it.

Anyway - please do contact me if you feel up to it. x

I have never posted previously however have often read the threads.

3 years ago I had an affair which devastated my wife. She found out when a friend saw us together.

The first year was dreadful as for a long time I was still in love with this woman and found it so difficult to not talk to her. Looking back it was infactuation and not love but at the time I really thought she was the love of my life.

The affair started because my marriage at that stage was in a dreadful place. We never talked about anything other than the children, we were in serious problems financially, I felt unsupported and as though I worked 12 hours a day just to be nagged and made to work at home both in the evenings and weekends. I understand a marriage is a partnership however was constantly exhausted. There was no let up and I was permanently stressed and miserable.

Looking back, I am horrified at what I did and can't actually believe it happened.

My wife and I are now very happy and there have been some really positive changes. it took us a long time to get to this stage. For the first year I was numb and almost didn't care what happened, the second year I was filled with horror and desperate to make amends. In the last year we have worked together to ensure we are both happy. We talk, we each have our own time (she joined a spa and I a golf club), we have some 'us' time at least once a week - even if it's only going for a walk. We talk and text daily and I can honestly say that we are now both happy and secure again.

I am now in a marriage I want to be in and would never put our marriage in the position where it is vulnerable to an affair again.

Good luck - it sounds as though you both really want things to work and that's the most important thing.

henry thats a really lovely post - It is lovely to hear it from the other side too. That is what we all really hope for when we discover our h is having an affair - sadly many men just leave it too late and see what they are losing.

thanks for sharing that with us.

What you describe is pretty much what we went through too and now we have a much better marriage

I think too many of us just accept the crap marriages for too long because we think that is the 'norm'.