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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help a very sad and confused new dad

475 replies

LostBoy · 21/02/2010 11:25

Hello all
I am writing this post out of shher desperation in the hope that someone will be able to offer me some helpful advice.
I have been with my wife for 8 years and we have had what i would consider a normal healthy loving relationship, Of course we have had ups and downs and rows and disagreements but no more so than any other couple I know.
We have recently become parents (9 months ago) to a beautiful baby girl and things at first were fine we were a very happy little family and were getting along really great working as a team learning how to be a family.
Our daughter had slept in her cot from the day we come home from the hospital and would wake on average 3 times a night for feeds.
we both shared all responsibilites and were supporting one another really well and really enjoying being parents.
However when the baby was around 6 months old she got a bad cold and was very poorly and upset and would not sleep without being cuddled so we had her in bed with us which was fine and we both discussed that we would not let her get used to this and as soon as she was better she would go back to her cot as our bed is not big enough for all three of us and both me and my wife were not sleeping as well as a result.
However when the baby was well agian my wife refused to put her back in to her cot and insisted the baby sleep in with us saying that the baby would no longer sleep in the cot which was untrue as I had been putting her down to sleep in the cot but my wife was then getting her out of the cot and bringing her in to bed with us.
I tried to explain to her that I thought this was not a good thing to be doing as it was a big step backwards for the baby and none of us were sleeping as well anymore.
She accused me of not wanting the baby in our bed so because I wanted sex which was totally not the case as I love my wife very much and would like nothing more than to be able to make love to her but she has told me that she dosent feel ready too and that is fine with me and I would never ever try to pressure her in to something she did not want and I told her this and that I was more than happy to wait as long as she needed.
ut then she started to accuse me of only doing stuff for her helping her and being nice to her so that she would have sex with me, she also began to accuse me of thinking things and would make her mind up what my intentions were and what i was going to say before I had had a chance to say anything choosing always to see the bad side of whatever I said or twst my words and actions in to something really ugly,
I love my wife with all my heart and it is deeply upsetting for me to hear the spiteful and nasty stuff she says about me and accuses me of.
It got so bad thet she would not let me even hug kiss or touch her and whenever I showed any sign of affection towards her she would get angry,
She is seeing a CBT councellor for post natal depression and we have been going to relate together but she is unwilling to try to make it work and it has now come to the stage where she is saying she dosent love me and has made me move out of our flat and I an now staying with friends.
I have continued to tell her I love her and that I will always be there for her and tried to make her feel better about herself but all i get in return is anger and spitefull comments.
She is almost unrecognosible as the woman I Love and behaves so completely irratonally and unreasonably but refuses to see this and blames me for everything and gets angry over nothing and will use anything to try to start a fight with me. I am at a total loss as to what to do now.
I love my wife so much and she has given me the most amazing thing in the world all I want is to be able to love them both care for them be there and be a family. But she has got so hostile and aggressive towards me now that I am scared for her and cannot stand to be around her and see her this way.
Our daughter is upset that I am not around and although I try to be ther as much as I can my wife is making it impossible for me to vist and refuses to let me be alone with the baby.
please please help me I have never felt so sad and desperate.

OP posts:
DorotheaPlenticlew · 22/02/2010 15:44

When was all this Henley business? Just curious, never heard of him before this thread.

hatwoman · 22/02/2010 15:49

we all do what sprogger?

equisetum · 22/02/2010 15:49

can you give a roundabout idea of what the alleged mil said? Am trying to work it out and the thread has given me brainfreeze as it is!

hatwoman · 22/02/2010 15:50

tbh alleged mil said nothing - just made her presence be known

FioFio · 22/02/2010 15:50

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LilyBolero · 22/02/2010 15:54

I am at this thread. Some of the statements are really quite horrifying. Suggesting that a dad doesn't have the same rights in decision making as a mum because 'he didn't 'grow the baby'.

So does an adoptive mum have fewer rights than a natural mum? Or in cases of adoption, does the father have more of an equal say?

I always thought of marriage and parenting as a partnership. An equal partnership. But that's not the way it's portrayed here.

I think the OP has had a real bashing on here, and it does seem to me that he is genuinely seeking advice to help his wife. And also, we keep our changing mat on the floor of the bathroom, with the wipes next to it. If someone moved them I could well find myself in the same position, and I have 3 kids, 1 more on the way, and have changed what must be THOUSANDS of nappies.

equisetum · 22/02/2010 15:55

oh i see, thanks hat and fio

giveitago · 22/02/2010 16:38

Well, if the mil has raised her head - it kind of gives me the impression that there is more to it than just an unreasonable wife with pnd v. lovely kind considerate guy.

IF, this is the real deal - could mean more to it than meets the eye in terms of op and dw situation - it could also mean family interference (and boy, I know what that is!!!!).

So if real, just hoping that everyone in this situation is OK.

It's very common that that when a little baby comes on the scene the adults cannot cope with the drastic change in dynamics- sad but common - very much depends on how everything is handled and I hope that there is a happy outcome.

bluetits · 22/02/2010 16:42

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noassociation · 22/02/2010 17:07

Wow so depressing ...
..and so fustrating!

Am I right in thinking that if a man asks for help, advice and insights in regards to his wife as a new mun with depression ...on a site called mumsnet ...that if the said women there actually then give him their own personal advice and insights ..from their new mum with PND perspectives...all those women are then man-haters?!!!

Are we man-haters because we want him to get his wife back? Because we want to help him save his marriage, because we want to help him see ways in which he could potentially reach his wife?

Whether it's right, wrong, fair or equal... the poor man wants his family back together and regardless of whether she is being reasonable (in her present state) or not, explaining and describing her possible state of mind and presenting the often unfair realities of his situation, is in HIS best interest, for what HE wants to achieve. I am baffled as to how that's man-hating or man-bashing....

mathanxiety · 22/02/2010 17:07

"I have never forced my will on my wife of daughter and would never overrule any of her descisions on the basis that I didnt agree." Well, yes, you say she 'refused' (an order from a superior officer?) to put the baby back in the cot, and got up and put her back yourself, then she got up and brought the baby back to bed. You tried to overrule her on the basis that you didn't agree (what other basis could there be?).

"I have been nothing but loving and supportive of her..." This sounds extremely defensive to me, not the statement of a man who has learned anything from this thread, not the statement of a man who has any intention of learning anything or taking any advice on board from women whose insights he asked for, and with the stated aim of improving the relationship with his wife and child.

"...as well as being very positive and encouraging." This comes across as quite patronising. You may have thought your wife needed encouragement as a mother, and it was nice of you, but encouragement can come across as something else entirely.

Your wife is not the only one experiencing the chaos of the first year of parenthood. You are too. Often, men will deal with this situation of chaos by adopting an "I'm in charge" posture (telling her what's best for the child, deciding what sort of sleep she's getting, removing the baby back to the cot after a feeding despite his wife's 'refusal', dishing out compliments) trying to fix things, as many have pointed out, when in fact, nothing needs fixing. The Mr. FixIt position is a coping mechanism for the new father just as much as the co-sleeping, go with the flow approach of many new mothers.

A vastly changed and very difficult family situation where sleep deprivation and the enormous physical demands on both partners (but especially the mother) is hard for a father to cope with just the same as it is for the mother. Adopting the role of Captain of the family ship gives a new father the illusion of control despite all the change, and the fact that pretty much everything you do this first year is in fact dictated by the baby.

A man can convince himself that everything is going along fine with the control that exists in his mind, except when it comes to a wife not responding to him sexually. That is hard to deal with, partly because it is a rejection of him as a man, and also because it is a reminder that he is not in charge. When I say 'control' here I am talking about a coping mechanism. We all have coping mechanisms. New fathers are doing this for the first time too, but this particular new father seems very unwilling to face his contribution to the impasse, bin his illusion of control and start again. This is not man-bashing, just an attempt to explore a dynamic. The attempt to control the situation is frequently a cause of resentment and even serious misunderstanding between husbands and wives in a baby's first year. It can also contribute to PND in a mother.

"For the record..." What record? I noticed inthe OP that friends recommended Lostboy should go on MN. Is MN some sort of jury that gets to cast a vote as to who is 'right' in the case of Mr. L vs. Mrs. L? Have the friends been regaled with Lostboy's list of how she done him wrong?

Lostboy, I (and many others) have advised you before on this thread to tear up your list of unreasonable things your wife has done and start listening to her. You seem unable to wrap your head around this idea.

You have a list of things you do and say that make you a fabulous husband and father, and every time you post and ask how you can help your wife you trot out another example of your wife's unreasonableness and another example of what a fab dad you are, how supportive you are, etc. But not once have you shown, in any post, that you have a clue about PND. You recount examples of her anger and her 'unreasonableness' and her attitude to you and seem completely unable to join the dots and get a picture of PND. I recommend you google PND and do your darndest to really absorb the information you find.

mathanxiety · 22/02/2010 17:13

Good post, Noassociation.

dittany · 22/02/2010 17:24

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FioFio · 22/02/2010 17:25

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mathanxiety · 22/02/2010 17:27

I missed the Nonno post -- anyone care to fill me in?

FioFio · 22/02/2010 17:28

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2010aQuintessentialOdyssey · 22/02/2010 17:29

She basically said something along the lines of "dont you ever talk on the internet like this again about my daughter and grandchild Ian."

Much confusion as to whether it is is missing a comma between grandchild and Ian, if Ian is Mil, or the babys name, or meant to be the OPs name.

mathanxiety · 22/02/2010 17:32

Thank you, Quintessential. I would say Ian is the OP's name from what you say.

I wondered if the wife had any support in RL or any family helping her out, and asked the OP in an early post of mine, but he didn't respond.

sungirltan · 22/02/2010 17:32

ecomouse -ohhhhhhh. how complicated.

think i might wait a while to respond to op - see what comes to light this evening

2010aQuintessentialOdyssey · 22/02/2010 17:33

It has possibly been hard for the op to answer ALL the questions, there has been many.

FioFio · 22/02/2010 17:33

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noassociation · 22/02/2010 17:40

The control issue makes lots of sense and think really looking into PND is the best advice given for LB so far

hatwoman · 22/02/2010 18:39

the mil or fil asked his/her post to be deleted. presumably because of the name. I think it's a bit unfair to repeat it.

sprogger · 22/02/2010 18:40

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ItsGraceAgain · 22/02/2010 18:49

Funnily enough, I've been amazed at just how similar people's situations are. I don't think you could identify many individuals from their posts, even with names and locations (excepting very unusual ones).

Not adding anything to this thread, as I think Math's post above is close to perfect.

Hope this is all starting to make sense to you, OP.