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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is an emotional affair as bad

107 replies

stradivarious · 08/02/2010 14:08

as a physical one? Can it ever be ok, even when it doesn't seem wrong?

OP posts:
sincitylover · 08/02/2010 17:40

Mal out of interest how do you know that your dh does not discuss anything personal with his female friends?

Bobbiewickham · 08/02/2010 17:42

Oh, Mal, it's you and your perfect relationship on an infidelity thread again.

I could set my watch...

sincitylover · 08/02/2010 17:42

my exh had close female friends and I have no idea what they talked about - it coudl have been personal stuff.

But I doubt it because he appears to have aspergers. But I don't know for sure.

What about if you discuss personal stuff with a gay best friend. Is that a betrayal? I certainly discussed my marriage with my gbfs.

lilyofvalley · 08/02/2010 17:52

Strad
I have a close male friend called "a" with whom I have long chats, we have no romantic interest at all. I share some of the humorous e mail content with dh. I wouldn't be worried about dh Reading any messages. However I do feel guilty that I can have such close relationship with someone other than dh. I rationalise that I have several female friends that ful fill diffrent needs so this is no different.
Recently I got in touch with an ex (from 17yrs ago), "calked b"and we have had very flirty e mail chats. We have no intention of going any further but the contact brightens the daily tedium of nappies/feeds etc. I love dh and have happy marriage so am overcome withguilt but can't bring myself to give up.

So if your friend is like "a" then tell husband and don't worry, enjoy. We all need variety of friends. If it's like "b" then steer clear because along with shortterm hit it' just brings heartache.

stradivarious · 08/02/2010 20:39

lilyofvalley - it is like b . He too brightens my otherwise mundane life so I enjoy our exchanges and thats all there is to it. How long have you been 'talking' to other one? We decided today to stop the idle chats, as we both know its not really 'fair' but god, how I miss him already, its rediculous. I am really quite sad.

OP posts:
heQet · 08/02/2010 20:45

I think as a rule of thumb, any relationship / friendship you actively work to hide from your partner is wrong. So if you are open and invite your husband to join you for drinks and chats, or at least tell him about the chats then fine, if you lie to your husband - it's an affair

lilyofvalley · 08/02/2010 21:05

Hi strad
I know exactly how you feel. We started talking about 18 months ago, he found me through facebook. It was quiet intense for a few weeks then we cooled things after I became pregnant. Then I had difficult birth and dd became main focus. I didn't have much contact with him other than few innocent "how are you messages". Last week we started talking again and I may have been too forward because he told me to not get too carried away in fantasy. Although looking back at messages he did reciprocate and I didn't imagine it. He lives in Europe and does visit uk frequently. He has girlfriend. Last year he said he'd wished he'd tried harder with me years ago, so now I don't know if he's finding it hard to see me with husband & child.
Anyway he was my 1st romance and I have very happy memories so maybe I'm just living out an old fantasy.
I miss him terribly and can't stop thinking about him. Feel like a silly school girl. It's not like I want to leave husband for him or anything.
What's the answer hey,
well if you do stop talking then all I can say is that it is hard at first but gets easier with time. Immerse yourself in other things. Reward yourself if you reach milestones like getting to end of day/week without messaging.
It is awful I know.

lilyofvalley · 08/02/2010 21:33

Oh I just wanted to say that people shouldn't be too hasty to judge or condemn. No one knows the situation/emotions unless they're in a similar position. I didn't intend to feel/behave this way about an ex and I'm guessing neither did strad.

Geckle05 · 08/02/2010 21:53

In short, no, it's not as bad. It's far, far WORSE. Sorry to be blunt but you're kidding yourself. It is a steep slippery slope to misery and I know because I'm there, in love with another man with whom I have no physical contact but who I "just talk" to and think about all the time. Unless you're happy to risk your marriage and the happiness of you child, don't do it. Just stop now before the pain of stopping turns you into a coward.

MrsForgetful · 08/02/2010 22:01

OP.....

how about if it were the other way round and your DH did it to you????

infact.... would he do it to you?

I am a real prude...I have been with my husband for 22 years...and have have not kissed or danced with another man at all.

for me...any AFFAIR would hurt me.

(my mum had affairs...and used my bed...so that's why i am a prude )

my husband has behaved 'suspiciously' over the years...and once when i asked him if he'd kissed anyone else since we met- he replied "that depends what you call a kiss"... and my instant reaction was to recoil- as that felt like addmision of full blown affairs...

however- i have since spoken to many people who 'understand' him...and not me... ao maybe all this comes down to one thing...and that is what your DH is like.

If it were me...and my husband was 'emotionally' attatched to anyone...it would be ok as long as i NEVER found out.

fortyplus · 08/02/2010 23:17

Malificence how very patronising to assume that your relationship with your dh is 'closer' than mine. After 25 yers we can practically read each other's minds, actually. But that doesn't alter the fact that I am independent of mind and spirit, I have close friends of both sexes and I don't feel the need to share every conversation I ever have with someone else - whether of the same or the opposite sex. In fact if I felt 'uncomfortable' with something that another man said to me then I would feel it would show a lack of security in my own relationship to go bleating to dh about it. I would pass comment to dh if I thought it would vaguely interest him. For example - a close male friend recently tacked on to the bottom of an e mail that he had been meaning to ask if I had a morning or afternoon free some time (ie when his own wife was out) to talk to him as a friend and confidante. But he wouldn't say what it was about. When I got home I told dh because I knew that - like me - he would be intrigued. Equally - neither of us - knowing eachother and this friend - would have the slightest qualms about me going round to talk to him. As it turned out, he and his wife were splitting up, but the only time I could find was over the school hilidays when his wife and children were at his house. So my dh took my children out so that my make friend could come to our house to talk to me alone. Dh felt no need to ask about the conversation, nor did I tell him very much of it. Now that is what I call confidence in a relationship.

pottybutnice · 08/02/2010 23:46

I don't know - am I the only person who finds this whole mentality about telling your partner everything/feeling guilty about even talking to another man really - 1950s??

It's so - neurotic and insecure. Just chill out and talk to whoever you want to. And also - why ask a bunch of strangers on the internet about what you should do. What has it got to do with anyone else?? The point about all these situations is that, in the end, the law of natural consequences will come into play.

It makes no difference what anyone else says or thinks - in the end, whatever course of action people take, there will be a consequence. So each and every person weighs up the situation, and decides whether they are willing to take the possible consequences of the action.

fortyplus · 09/02/2010 00:01

'I don't know - am I the only person who finds this whole mentality about telling your partner everything/feeling guilty about even talking to another man really - 1950s??'

That sums it up nicely for me, pottybutnice

jasper · 09/02/2010 00:11

potty, you are not the only one. Me too

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 09/02/2010 10:15

But is anyone saying that "they tell their partner everything and feel guilty even speaking to another man"? I don't think that's what posters are saying at all.

As far as I can see, people urging caution in this situation are making a huge distinction between the life enhancing male friendships they have with men who are also friends of their marriages - and those that actually want to harm their marriages.

Fortyplus, I have been in the situation that you describe several times. Male friends have asked to see me - on my own - to offload about something that's troubling them. Like you, I've told my DH that's where I'm going, but if the said friend has asked me to keep a matter confidential, that's what I have done. It hasn't troubled DH - and it hasn't troubled me, because these individuals are no threat to my marriage. And the key to all these interactions is that they are not held in secrecy.

Then there's that grey area in the middle - as there always is. I've been married 25 years too - and in that time, I know I've had friendships with men who with hindsight, clearly weren't friends of my marriage, because at some point it became clear that they actually wanted me to have an affair. My approach to those situations has been to tell DH what has been said - and he has trusted me to deal with the situation, by making it clear that I'm not interested. Those situations haven't troubled me, because
I haven't been in the least bit tempted to take them up on their offers.

There have been other friendships when my internalised reaction has troubled me - I know I'd have been tempted if an offer was made. That's been the line for me that I won't cross - so I've backed away and not put myself in a situation where my resolve was likely to weaken. There was a time when I wouldn't have told my DH about that conflict - now I would, because as a couple, we have come to the conclusion that we are both going to find others attractive and it's human to be tempted. Talking about those situations openly removes the secrecy - and our relationship is secure enough to have that adult conversation.

There is a world of difference between those situations and friendships with men that are conducted so secretly that our partners wouldn't even know we had the friendship - never mind the secrecy about the interactions therein. The point you are perhaps missing is that there is generally a reason for such secrecy. Despite the OP's protestations (and sorry, I still think this is memorylane communicating with her exH via a secret SIM card) that there is nothing to this other than friendship, there is a reason she is keeping this secret.

There's nothing 1950s about this at all - in fact it is very much a 21st century problem with grey areas that to an extent didn't exist in the 1950s, with the advent of social networking sites and collegiate relationships in the workplace.

What hasn't changed one jot is the thrill adults get from something that is secret and illicit. Why do you think the poster called this an affair? It's because deep down, she thinks it is - or has the potential to be one. No-one in their right mind would ask the internet if it was a problem having a male friend - but this poster has at least been honest that she wouldn't like her husband to be conducting a similar secret friendship. It's a pretty good rule of thumb in any relationship, as AF says, that you treat people how you would like to be treated.

Finally, Pagwatch's milkman analogy made me laugh out loud yesterday thank you Pagwatch!

heQet · 09/02/2010 11:38

You don't have to tell your partner everything, go through everyone you spoke to! That'd be silly.

But if your partner asks "who was that?" and you say "sue" when in fact it was another bloke, if you hide you you are talking to by lying or distracting, that's wrong, and that's the point I was making and I think many others were too.

It is the hiding, not the talking, that indicates affair / betrayal.

I don't run through everyone I've chatted to. But I wouldn't tell my husband I had been for coffee with my sister when in fact I'd been for coffee with the tasty bloke from the garage, for example.

stradivarious · 09/02/2010 12:35

The only reason I have not told him is because the person I talk to is an Ex. Not because we are going to embark on an affair. I could never do that and have told Ex and he too is not interested in anything physical with me. We started out catching up on each others lives thats all and then we had a few chats about random stuff. We have actually stopped talking as of yesterday for the following reasons. a] I felt guilty not sharing this info with DH. b]We had finished talking about us and therefore to carry on was prolonging my guilt towards DH. c] He was very concerned that I should not risk upsetting my life by talking to him. d] His partner would not be happy either. So you see, for many reasons we were talking, to clear the air from years ago, catching up etc. It served the purpose of confessing our regrets, apologies, call them what you will. The only thing that unepectedly came about was that were were very much able to chat to each other like 'friends' and it was really nice. However, we were history years ago and now we have called it a day. I do miss talking to him though, it was fun, it was interesting and yes it brightened my otherwise fairly mundane days, I am a SAHM.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 09/02/2010 13:09

Oh Strad - I could shake you (kindly!) sometimes. I wish you would be more honest with yourself - and us.

The fact that he was an ex has got nothing to do with you keeping it a secret - and you know that, don't you? No sane spouse would be in the least bit bothered about a friendly exchange between exes, catching up after many years. They would be bothered (as would you) if they kept it secret. That would then mean something else. The only possible reason someone has for being covert about such friendships is if they are married to a hysterically jealous man - and you're not - and if they were, there would be far more problems than just a secret friendship.

However, just based on what you're willing to admit, try to see what your life (and marriage)is lacking for this to have caused so much upset.

I've got no confidence whatsoever that this "friendship" won't start up again imminently, because I believe this has happened before - and in your own ways, you're both getting addicted to the secrecy. Until you find out why this is going on - and continue to delude yourself, this is a car crash waiting to happen.

stradivarious · 09/02/2010 13:26

whenwillifeelnormal, you really are so far off the mark. There will be no car crash and this episode has not caused 'so much upset'. No-one is 'addicted to the secrecy' as you so put it, we have called it a day. I don't know how anyone can be addicited to something that makes them guilty. This whole thing remained a 'secret' for its duration purely because it was with a person who had been a very significant part of my previous life therefore no need for DH to have to even think about it and amybe feel hurt in any way. Your skills as a private detective/phsycologist call it what you will whenwillifeelnormal are, I have to say, rather lame.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 09/02/2010 13:54

Strad - anyone with the skills to complete a "spot the difference" puzzle would have worked out that you were the same OP as the one on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=relationships&threadid=907297-Talking-to-my-ExH&pagingOff=1#18461531

Perhaps try avoiding the use of the phrase "purely random stuff" on your next thread which will no doubt be entitled: "Is it okay to have a friendship with another man?"

  • which will no doubt attract a flurry of messages saying that that it's perfectly acceptable (which it is), you'll claim this time that it's not secret from your DH and the bloke isn't an ex, that it's conducted on your usual phone - and everyone will be wondering what you're worried about.

If you did but know it, people are trying to be kind to you by helping you unpick this story.

BigBadMummy · 09/02/2010 13:56

I havent read the whole thread so don't what the full story is so this is a response simply to your thread title.

In my opinion an emotional affair / texts / email exchanges that are suggestive and flirtatious are far more damaging than a one night stand.

The latter I could forgive.

The former I would not. It undermines, to my mind, the very nature of a solid relationship and is deceitful.

A one night stand if admitted to after the event, I believe, can be forgiven. It is not right, of course it isn't. But for me it is far less damaging to the relationship than continued emotional exchanges.

stradivarious · 09/02/2010 14:08

whenwillifeelnormal - I appreciate people on this thread are acting out of kindness to me, you on the other hand seem determined to 'have a go' or accuse me of being someone else which I do resent. I wasn't affair of the fact that the phrase 'purely random stuff' is unique to any one individual and since I quote it I must be 'some other', infact I hear the term bandied about quite a lot. I am not on here under the guise of anyone else, nor am I rephrasing my threads etc etc. If you yourself want to act in a kind manner to people who post, perhaps you should do just that and stop insinuating to people that perhaps not who they say they are. Are you really that bored.

OP posts:
lilyofvalley · 09/02/2010 14:12

Strad
I have recently become a SAHM and to be honest I'm finding it quiet hard. I think part of the reason I enjoyed chats with my ex was that they provided a bit of excitement in an otherwise mundane day. I'm sure if I had my previous busy/stressful/stimulating work life I wouldn't even have had time nor inclination.
Well done for giving up, I do admire you. From your last post I don't think you have much to worry about. You didn't want physical contact, meeting up etc etc and that is contrary to what someone "having an emotional affair "would feel. I think it's just a natural progression.

WhoIsAsking · 09/02/2010 14:18

"I wasn't affair of the fact that the phrase..."

Freudian slip much? heee! oh and WWIFN has helped many MANY posters here over and over again. You have entirely the wrong view of her.

Malificence · 09/02/2010 14:21

This thread is now officially bizarre, Strad, you have made an enormous mountain out of a non existent molehill as far as I can see.
It's a complete non-problem and you can't have much going on in your life for it to cause so much drama!

There should be no problem whatsoever with saying to your husband, "you'll never guess who I've been in contact with, so and so, it was nice to catch up after so many years, yada yada".... where's the issue?
I'm afraid I've come to the conclusion that you're a little bit bonkers.