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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Co-Dependant No More

116 replies

MrsForgetful · 06/02/2010 18:01

Hmmm....How to start this thread????

I am a fixer. I like to make sure everyone is happy- and feel responisble for everything. I feel ok when in control- and guilty if i do anything for myself...there is more...but that will do for now.

So, I was told about CO-DEPENDANCY...and having googled it...am now working on improving my life by being 'Co Dependant No More'

Anyone care to join me on my journey????

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MrsForgetful · 16/02/2010 20:19

THATS BRILLIANT CHAZ...sounds like me and my H too. (if i'm right both him and I have AS....so this boundary stuff is worth me looking into- as we both step on each others toes.)

I've learnt NEVER to ask H how he thinks he's made me feel etc...he cannot 'walk in my shoes' etc.... so instead, I have to say

"When YOU do XYZ....It makes ME feel ABC"
(rather than YOU make me feel etc)

Also, he's unable to guess what someone will do... eg ...if i say "what do you think X will do when he finds out what Y has done with Z"...he will say "how am i supposed to know...i don't know what he thinks...I'm not a mindreader". I try to get him to be daring and guess...but he refuses to play games.

Also.... he has terrible body language/eye contact/or 'verbal nods'... in that he dispays openly how he feels about someone/something...by not giving any eyecontact...yawning (no effort to stifle yawn to be polite'...believes that people should 'accept them how he is' , and particularily on the phone- will listen silently to the caller....no "A-ha's" or "Hmm Hmm" or "oh no!" or "Oh Yes" or "did you?" etc... so people think he is bored with them or that he has gone away!

(not strictly co-dep stuff.... but draining all the same)

ME... when i am face to face i have to silently tell myself to keep eye contact (i look at the gap between eyebrows) and have to be very carefukl not to make inappropriate comments...i often show a happy face- but speak in a negative way- or look sad and say something funny...i am sometimes aware that i have laughed at the wrong time- or reacted in a too dramatic way to something very trivial...but the difference is that H is NOT aware.

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MrsForgetful · 16/02/2010 20:23

meant to say how blurred the fine line is with AS and co-dep...as much of my co-dep behaviours have developed from stategies i used to 'cope' with day to day living.

(i have had to make so many apologies/explanations/excuses for all of my boys...and my husband...that it became habit)

How many times do i say "X didn't mean that..." or "X doesn't like change of routine- thats why he reacted badly to a suprise visit from grandma" etc

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ItsGraceAgain · 16/02/2010 23:12

Ha! Shurely the point is, H did mean that??! I'm hugely envious of you, co- co-dependents, as you seem to be making so much better progress than I am. Huh. But I certainly wouldn't take responsibility for Aspie X's undue honesty - or his criminality, though that's another story. I got enough practice with XH#1 the narcissist (eg: "H won't be joining us for dinner, he says he doesn't want to.") Life's too short.

Mrs.F, wrt your last paragraph above ... Are you an Aspie too, or is that all due to your having become 'Aspergated'?

ItsGraceAgain · 16/02/2010 23:57

Grace's Step 4 [part 1]

This is turning out to be extraordinarily complicated. I did the Life Story thing in my rehab Step 4, and have been examining my failings in depth for ten years, during therapy. In the spotlight of co-dependency, I'm finding myself confused. Which can only be a good thing; it just means I might have to use up miles of thread space here (sorry).

I am still reading [http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1849010986?ie=UTF8&tag=deeplperso-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&crea tive=19450&creativeASIN=1849010986 The Compassionate Mind]]. I'm finding it fascinating - and, although I'm still in the 'background' phase of the book - about a quarter of the way in - it's starting to make a difference. I'm looking forward to working through it completely
It's changing my perspective. I'm becoming more impressed by myself - the sheer fact of my existence - and by everyone and everything else, too. It's hard to explain. This is something I thought I'd already achieved but, even a couple of chapters into the book, I started feeling resistance from what I 'thought' I knew - and realised Paul Gilbert was tearing away layers of so-called 'protection' from my mind, which I'd thought of as insight.

I should stress that my current psychologist works along similar lines to Gilbert: I'm being prompted in the same direction from two separate sources. It's a direction I have always wanted to travel; at present I'm having to trust the sources as I cannot predict what changes will happen in my mind. I know these are changes I want, though. And if I choose not to make them, or am scared to, I won't. Gah.

Anyway ... In this Step 4, I ought to look at how need has defined my relationships. I think it has pretty much defined them all! I recall very few that were defined, instead, by simple enhancement on both sides. I'm sorry to say that those - the simply-enhancing relationships - are ones I thought of as shallow. And pulled away from. The ones I experienced as more meaningful were the ones where I was used, harshly. Or else they were with co-dependents, who ended up giving me too much and now I feel guilty. It's tough.

I'm beginning to see, too, how I'm addicted to DRAMA. Not just in the theatrical sense (I am!), but in wanting every aspect of my life to be a roller-coaster adventure. It explains my career choices, my relationship choices and even why took so many drugs at the appropriate age. I find this very thought terrifying. There's nothing wrong with wanting an adventurous life - but not at the cost of real love; secure friendship; real fulfilment. I realise that I 'chose' (in a roundabout way) my present isolation: not because I wanted to be isolated - I don't! - but in an attempt to go 'cold turkey' on my unhealthy involvements. That in itself was - unconsciously - a DRAMATIC effort. Bugger.

Meanwhile, I spend hours & hours, which should be spent working for myself, here - reading other people's dramas. I still drink a little bit too much (it lets me feel 'special') and smoke a lot of fags - these days, smoking is a dramatic statement.

So I've typed half a page and am still only a tiny bit further on with my Step 4. I promise to headline them all, then you'll know to skip over what you don't want!

MrsForgetful · 17/02/2010 00:17

I believe i am an Aspie... round peg/square whole...Alien on this planet....etc
I have tried the AQ test.... and scored highly for ASD!!! If there were a blood test...i'm sure i'd have 'it'! TBH...the AS strategies work well for me...and that is better than any diagnosis i'm ever likly to get! (if the cap fits....)Talking of metaphors...i 'understand' them now...but get an 'instant picture' in my head of any new ones i hear!!!!

As a child i was very unhappy
As a teenager i was sure i did not belong
I hated my mum
I became a mum.
I hated her even more
My son started school
I felt a weird 'understanding' of what made my 'people-had-started-to-notice-DS1-was-Active-But-Odd' tick...
I started to learn about Aspergers.
It felt like i was reading about my childhood
I then read up on 'adults with AS' (you know...what the kids grow up to be!!!!)

And i was HOME

Now i understand my feelings as a child...i can have a 'friendship' with my mum...not hate her.

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MrsForgetful · 17/02/2010 00:19

why is it grace that every book you describe...i want!!!!

(i now have 4 melody beattie ones!!!!...and the double CD!!!)

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ItsGraceAgain · 17/02/2010 00:20

AHA! It's so nice to hear that ET did get home at last

ItsGraceAgain · 17/02/2010 00:21

lol @ Melody Beattie CDs - don't try playing them at parties! xx

MrsForgetful · 17/02/2010 00:22

night night!!!!

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MrsForgetful · 18/02/2010 11:53

i posted this on am=nother thread...and decided to paste it here too...as i think its a great illustration of the level of my codependancy....

Here goes....

I realise over the course of our 22 year marriage...i have tryed to 'tweak' my H to 'fit in' better with the 'outside world'.

and been frustrated when he 'never learns' and continues to offend/forget/misplace/react etc...despite all the 'EFFORT' that I have made to HELP him.

Since my 'discovery' about codependancy i have noticed many things i do for H...which i thought were 'just' a sign of my 'love/concern/care' etc of him...but infact...if HE did it to me...I would feel SMOTHERED.

the 'funniest' and most recent is....my choosing his ties for work (grin!!!)
(he 'collects ties'... has over 200)

I cringe when i see what tie he puts with each shirt....he never gets it right...he has no 'colour sense' and i decided to 'take control'

i took all his ties and sorted out all the ones I LIKED.... a pile of 50 or so.

I then folded them all carefully and organised them in a storage box...so each was visable for MY selection

then i ironed his shirts...again...i HAVE to iron them as he doesn't do it RIGHT ()

Then i selected ties to match...i even hung 2 or 3 on one shirt if i felt there wre seveal good matches...and convinced myself that i was GIVING HIM A CHOICE!!!

This has worked brilliantly for over a year...i have felt content that i was making sure he looked smart etc.

then it hit me the other day....would the world stop spinning if i stopped choosing his ties???? Does HE care if his ties don't match? Has his life improved because I chose the best tie for him to wear???

NO...NO...and NO!!!!

So...this week IS painful for me.....I decided i would contine ironing his shirts...but stop choosing the ties...stop 'picking up' the ties he just leaves casually hanging on door handles...over sofa cushions...etc...etc...Just leave them alone.
So i hung 5 shirts up in his wardrobe...and cos it's half term...have not been up to see what choice he makes...till he comes home at 6....and ....I have SURVIVED
(he looks a prat...but that's HIS choice!!!!) grin

I hope this really TRIVIAL example either helps...or makes you smile....just wanted to illustrate the ridiculous effort we codependants go to make our life perfect.

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countingto10 · 18/02/2010 12:23

We are "Monica"

Not quite as bad as you Mrsforgetful (he chooses his own ties) but I have to iron his shirts and hang them up (all ironed in an "exact" way), all my towels are folded a certain way and all the kids clothes are folded a certain way (none of it matters of course ......)

DH cannot watch Friends anymore without having hysterics at everything Monica does and looking at me

Suddenly realise I don't let the kids choose their own clothes and I tell oldest DS1 (who's 17) what to wear ....... (Mind you the two with ASD only where certain things anyway).

MrsForgetful · 18/02/2010 14:08

yes...my perfect world would be to have oodles of cupboard space so that i could place each boys clothes into 'outfits'...so they could select the pile they want to wear...and everything they need is in that 1 pile!!!!

(Hmmm....would work for H too!!!)

Instead...we have athe usual crammed-full-of-t-shirts-drawers... so they cause an avalanche everytime they get 1 out....but i'm not organsied enough in my keeping up with washing to just have a few neatly folded...they need loads...cos i get so behind sometimes...and they'd have to wear 'yesterdays' t-shirt (!!!!)

And don't get me started on socks....

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MrsForgetful · 18/02/2010 14:09

(i shall have to watch friends a bit more!!!!)

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ItsGraceAgain · 18/02/2010 17:42

You two are brilliant ... Monica & Monica

Congrats on giving up your tie-choosing addiction, Mrs F. One small step for womankind

MrsForgetful · 20/02/2010 12:43

(walking on eggshells at the mo as i'm premenstrual! )

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MrsForgetful · 22/02/2010 09:07

OK...what to do.

H has noticed I have not done his ties...and asked why? (in a pleasant way...not in a "DO MY TIES" way)
so....i explained that for the past 2 weeks i have been deliberately stepping back to give everyone responsibility for what they should be responsible for....and he agreed WE have been happier .....

but he said his work colleagues have been teasing him about his lack of coordination ref ties/shirts matching...and said he'd rather i go back to doing it.

I have said that i will- but no more will i pick up dropped on floor ties...or hunt for a particular tie that he's misplaced...THAT IS HIS RESPONSIBILITY... IF all he wants is me to match ties to shirts...i can do that in a NON codependant way...but ONLY if he does his bit.

Have decided when i will revert H back to DH...when he next goes to town...and comes back in a 'timely manor' without going in bookies. At the moment its a false sense of hope i am living in as...he has not been out for a wander for a few weeks...so temptation is not there.
So far he's come home before 6 (sometimes 5.15!) evry night after work....used to 'supposedly' have to 'work on' till 6.30-7pm...and NOW i know he was at the bookies) so thats good. (but i am still 'aware'....and not able to 'take it for granted' that he will come home by 6....like saturdays...he finishes at 12 and is currently home by 12.30...whereas before he would 'get caught up at work' and not be homer till 2/2.30.... so again...i am edgy on saturdays too.

he aslo plays golf...and used to be gone for 5 hoursa...and over the past year it got longer...even 7 hours...'apparently' they 'kept' getting stuck behind a 'slow' player...and i naively accepted that...now...he's coming home within the 5 hours sometimes....funny that....Bookies are open sundays....

SO...i don't mention it...i just show how happy i am that he's home for lunch....he's also been decorating the hallway...and HE commented on how much TIME he wated recently DOING OTHER THINGS as he puts IT...and how now he's go something to show for his time at home.

but what i have to remember ...is ITS HIS CHOICE and i have to get on as normal...DETATCH - and hope that the way things are going is how they will continue....

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