Co-Dependant No More

[MrsForgetful]

Hmmm....How to start this thread????

I am a fixer. I like to make sure everyone is happy- and feel responisble for everything. I feel ok when in control- and guilty if i do anything for myself...there is more...but that will do for now.

So, I was told about CO-DEPENDANCY...and having googled it...am now working on improving my life by being 'Co Dependant No More'

Anyone care to join me on my journey????

TOTALCHAOS try THIS

Hello everyone. I knew I was a bit co-dependent, but didn't realise how much until I looked on that list.

I completely identify with not knowing my true feelings, I think that I latch on to what everyone else is feeling in my vicinity and take that on as my mood.

And dignifies, this sentence "I often end up doing things for others that i dont want to do, then i feel pissed off afterwards." is what I do as well.

I have now devalued and denied myself for so long that I have health problems - and unless I do something about it, I might have a major problem. However, the motivation to do something that involves myself is so small that I am struggling. I think I might order that book, thanks for pointing it my way.

thanks for the quiz, and yep, guess what that came out with.... I don't feel my relationship with DH is codependant though, more that other past stuff is the problem. Just been telling DH about this thread - he is particularly enthusiastic about the not spending more than an hour on MN suggestion [grin[

TOTAL- since i've been looking into this i've started to see that i am codependant to AUTISM (made worse by all the routines and strategies we have to do daily)

does that make sense?

we are having particular problems with ds2 at the moment...and i have felt great resentment towards him..and that made me feel terrible...

and what is amazing is since i started thinking about this...reading on the web...getting help once again on MN...I have had a much more 'peaceful' life....and (what a suprise) DS2 has not got so wound up...and i have felt NO resentment.

LuigiB

Hi!

I can see this behaviour in my mum too.

I had a very difficult childhood- and only have a what i suppose is a fairly close relationship with my parents now because of 2 years of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

I reckon i was developing 'codependant' behaviour patterns by the age of 13.

I really feel positive about this...

I am diagnosed with OCD...but have never quite felt i 'ticked all the boxes'...however EVERYTHING i read about co dependancy applies to me.

There are things about by late teens that i am very ashamed of doing...and i can now see why i did them/why they were done to me.

That is a great relief.

also...i have always been such a chatterbox...and when i worked- i vowed everyday i would 'keep my mouth shut' ...and everyday failed before i had been at work for more than 1 minute...and even that irritating part of me now makes sense.

I stole money from my mum's purse (knowing full well she counted it out every night- and wrote down all she spent...like an accountant...) I am sure that is to do with all this too.

it is one big can of worms!!!!

GRACE Hope you enjoted your wine and film!?

Thanks to you and countingto10...i am feeling so much more like i want to feel....really on a roll now!

Lets hope the 'vibes' are catching!!!

We all deserve to feel good about ourselves.

Hi Mrs Forgetful, I believe I am a bit obsessive compulsive as well, although I am not diagnosed with it, as I find relief and probably control in doing something over and over again, particularly when it relates to my body - tapping my foot, fingers, touching my face again and again etc.

And resentment, I think I could write a book about it really. I feel resentment towards other people, but mainly towards myself that I can't find the motivation to make myself a better person.

Have tried meditation in the past and it makes me feel calmer, I think I might try that again.

I just don't want my ds to think I'm screwed up

thats how i feel...i want it to stop right here.
i don't want my sons inheriting it like i believe i did from my mum.

i have hated her for most of my life..and thankyfully had about 10 years so far of feeling closer to her and not hating her.

I don't want my boys to look back on me that way.

the difference i believe is that she does not see she has a problem...and therefore will not ever move on to do something about it

whereas...i have made the choice to change.

Just saw your link on Aspergers thread, am shocked to see myself described so well on the above list.

Over the years I have got better but seem to have slipped backwards somewhat lately - since my father, an alcoholic, died I seem to have 'developed' a codependant relationship with my mother - she is very paranoid and needy and I seem to forget who I am when she's around..

Oh, I'm in a caring profession too and it drains me but I don't seem to have the confidence to get out of it. I guess I feel that looking after others is all I am good at, if I think about trying to do something else I start thinking of the reasons why I would be no good at it/rejected.

Anyway, I don't have a lot of time to post but will be here in spirit reading your posts and hoping I can contribute usefully every now and again.

womanonpluto... just drop in from time to time with a quick

I must do something else now...i have gone from being obsessed about my husband...to obsessed with 'researching' co-dependancy on the internet!!!

I need to get the kids school uniforms ready for the week...then i'd love to sit down and read what i've printed off...and do what i promised to to today...listen to my 'co-dep no more' cd...and make notes!!!

just had the ideal chance to practice the 'new me'

so pathetic really...funny....pointless.

i made a victoria sponge for tea
we are all at the table...i am cutting the kids and my slice of cake...and
SILLY ME i was a naughty girl and put H's cake on his plate before he'd finished his cheese and crackers.

i cannot believe how he reacted! He really went on about me 'always doing things i want...my way...not his way'

and ofcourse...technically he was right.
(but i still think he was being a prat over a slice of cake....but...hey! its the principle....)

for a few seconds i felt the usual- hurt/humiliated etc....

then the stuff i've been reading kicked in...

i said

"I feel dissapointed that YOU reacted that way.
I realise the mistake i made was cutting you a slice of cake...I can see that you'd rather cut your own when you are ready to eat it" (NOTE..i didn't say HE made me FEEL sad etc...I said I FELT...

point being...i have always cut the cake...and therefore he must feel less of a man !!!(HA HA HA!!!!) Must let him be independant...mustn't do everything for him...so i will start with 'cake cutting strike'

seriously...this cake episode could be the event that marks the new start for me as it illustrates perfectly my desire to 'mother' him...which is what i want to stop doing.

so finally, he left the table (not eating the cake) and i said
"when i've finished clearing the table (subtle reminder that he was not helping) I will pick up your rattle for you"

and 10 minutes later- we are NOT arguing.

now...what to do with the cake?????
I reckon it would be greatly appreciated by his work collegues! (don't worry i'm not deliberately stirring...i often bake a cake for his work- and i shan't say anything to any of them about the 'cake arguement'...just walk away wondering how stubborn H will be about whether he takes a slice...as i will have to pre-slice it to make sure there are enough pieces to go round!

bugger.

he's not at work tomorrow or tuesday...so will just have to eat the cake myself!

Thank you for starting this thread. It is very useful and I will be ordering the book/cd mentioned. I have realised that I have been/am totally co-dependent (married to a narcissistic/alcoholic - need I say more!). I am, now though, with the help of counselling and my own efforts, trying to take steps to change my behaviour. It is hard with family though who view attempts to be, I suppose, more assertive in a way, that you are being 'selfish'! - even though the things concerned may be putting my children's needs before what someone in my family wants me to do for them.

It is very easy for other people's needs to leave you worn out and you do have to put yourself first, even with little things, on a regular basis.

Hands up - I'm another one. Starting to get some help now which is dragging out some v painful memories. Not sure that DH is the real issue but rather my dysfunctional childhood which has led me to develop inappropriate behaviour patterns. In other words I can't disentangle the effect of the past patterns repeating and issues that genuinely stem from my curent relationship. I think I have to move away from the old behaviours and then assess the shape of the relationship.

DH and I had a steaming row last night but I refused to take the blame for his reaction. I didn't apologise to keep the peace. I just calmly pointed out that I am not responsible for his reaction anything he does or says is his responsibility.

The next step for me is to stop trying to fix everything and to stop trying to organise DH's life for him.

So far this year - I have gone to a couple of random lunches with work colleagues. Booked myself some theatre tickets.

On the weekend I splashed out on some expensive cleanser and moisturiser (which smells fab).

Goal for today - do not chip in an offer unsolicited advice to anyone (even myself!)

CHAZ
you said:
"I think I have to move away from the old behaviours and then assess the shape of the relationship."

thats exactly my position- a week agao i thought my marriage was over- now, i am working through MY stuff...instead of HIS and honestly hope that it continues to improve our homelife as much as it has this past week.

AUTUMNLIGHT
You said
"It is hard with family though who view attempts to be, I suppose, more assertive in a way, that you are being 'selfish'!"

Agree with that too! I have deliberately put myself first a few times this week- and even ds3 asked me 'why' i did something for me....instead of for them. It feels odd- it will take lots of practice.I do feel selfish.

My goal for the whole of this week, some questions that i normally ask (to gain recognotion/approval/reassurance) and am trying so hard to not ask them...boring but here we go:

.HOW IS YOUR CUP OF TEA?
.IS YOUR DINNER OK?
.CAN YOU SEE WHAT I'VE DONE TODAY? (ref:housework)
.WHAT TIME WILL YOU BE BACK?
.How much money are you going to draw out of bank?

etc....

and big test here...husband just gone out to get his hair cut...days he won't be long (that has historically meant absences of 3 or 4 hours minimum)wanted to ask when he'd be back...wanted to tell him what time tea is (as a stealth way of saying he must come back by then)....but i didn't.

I have to hope he doesn't take the piss...doesn't go into the betting shop to play the roulette machine...and if he does ...i have to see it as his failure- not mine in failing to stop him.

so in my head i am saying...he must be home by 6pm....and as long as he only draws out max £30...£10 for hair... £20 for 'food money' for rest of week at work...then i will not even feel fed up.
but if he comes back later...or draws over £30...and has nothing apart from a £10 haircut ...and an empty wallet.... or does draw £30...but has gambled and comes home 'high' with a wallet with more than he shoul...then i will know he has been gambling.... and will have to 'detatch' as the codependancy way states. (that being remove myself from HIS problem)

But i have said none of this to him.

so I have a 'plan of action'

rather than end up sat in darkness, bawling my eyes out- i have decided to go to asda when he gets back....so will get boys & my teas for 5.30- plate husbands up and cover ready for microwave- then do what i did last week- have a bath and get changed/put on some make up- and plan to go out at 8pm (same as last week)

I feel stronger for having a 'coping plan' if he lets me down.

If he's back by 5.15 i will not only be extremely happy- but proud that he has made an effort too.

Mrsforgetful, have you protected your finances as much as possible ? I don't know how far you have got in the book/cd but towards the end it does mention taking control of things that need taking control of or need protecting ie if you are married to a gambler then you do need to protect yourself from further problems by separating the finances eg.

You are doing much better than me atm, I'm getting really resentful of the DC and all the demands re schooling, illness etc. DH is doing all he can to help me have some "me" time and we have actually booked a weekend away at the end of the month before I explode . I think all the crap I have been through in the last 10 months or so is coming to a head and he is recognising it. There's only so much a woman can take.

Having my nails done tomorrow and not intending to go into the office - my therapist doesn't actually think I'm fit for work but, unfortunately, I live in the real world and DH can't afford to employ anyone else atm (paying back gambling debt etc ).

I have got details of horseriding holiday and am looking into taking myself off for a few days on my own.

Mrsforgetful, have you protected your finances as much as possible ? I don't know how far you have got in the book/cd but towards the end it does mention taking control of things that need taking control of or need protecting ie if you are married to a gambler then you do need to protect yourself from further problems by separating the finances eg.

COUNTINGTO10 well...HE has got our joint account card back again...so i am checking bank account online every night (yes...very co-dependant...but for now i have to do it)
He's not 'misbehaved' money wise for a month...
I have also extended the norton family safety 'block' on the computers to cover gambling etc- and once a week i put £15 on william hill website...for him to do his football bets ...a couple of horses- instead of him going in betting shop....not ideal...but he was a 'gambler' when i met him- i used to join him in betting shops then- so i am accepting of him 'openly' betting...but cannot cope with the secret betting.
today is a big 'test' as it's the first day for the month that he has gone walking to town- and i am scared how tempting it will be for him to go in betting shop. but i have to wait and see.

If he does gamble secretly- i am better aware of the 'signs' -his behaviour changes/pattern of money withdrawal etc... and if i have to, i will go online , transfer enough money from our joint account to my separate account- then report joint account cards as stole- thus putting a instant block on his card. He will then HAVE to go back to using the separate acct i set up for him- i don't think i'd trust him again though to even 'borrow' the joint account card- as we were going fine till 2 weeks agao- he'd not had the joint card for weeks- then a few times he had to use it- so he did then returned it to me- then one day after he had the card- we argued- and he made it clear he was not returning the card.

he did not use it to gamble with- so i have had no issues.

(i'm sounding very Co-Dependant here... i recieved the co-dependanmt no more book today- so will 'fast forward ' to the chapter you refer to as far as protecting ourselves...the CD did not cover that in depth.)

regarding YOU.. is it half term for your DC's next week? Will you cope better/worse having no school? (i ask cos i see your remark about school problems...and i sometimes look forward to holidays- just so i don't have to deal with the crap that happens at school at home....obviously, i find having them home for a week is hard too...but at the moment - school (bullying) is causing more grief than i can take.

Like you said- a woman can only take so much.

I haven't worked for 4 years- i am on ICB and DLA- all on mental health grounds. This year i wanted to stop claiming ICB...but just as i get back on my feet- i get slapped down.

(thanks again for recommending the melody beattie book...it really has changed my life)

Blinking heck! I read the list at the start of this thread and couldn't read on as I do all the things on the list.

Yep it is half term for my DC. It's great insofar as no school run etc which I find extremely stressful but with all 4DSs at home, I am basically a referee although I am trying to step back and let them sort their own problems out. It is difficult as DS3 who is ASD is also food phobic and DS4 takes great delight in chasing around the house with a cheesy breadstick . DS1 (also asd) talks about nothing but fish/fishing and also have meeting with social workers this week as he turns 18 this year and we need to get all relevant wheels in motion as hopefully, he will leave college in two years time and go straight into his own accommodation - that is the plan anyway.

Can you see why I get stressed. DS1 also gets extremely wound up by younger brothers and I have to intervene as he is 17 and youngest is 5 and is frightened by his older brother at times.

DH took last year to have a breakdown and self destruct - now I feel I really am entitled to a breakdown myself

i understand the 'referee' ... and i only have 3 with AS...!
My wrists & shoulders ache sometimes from the restraining/blocking/stopping i do when ds1 & 2 launch at eachother
my ds1 is 16...and cannot moderate his force- so he will hit out at full stregnth- and at nearly 6ft, and i'm only 5ft2...i am unable to restrain him when he gets physical. (he's also got into the habit of blowing into faces when annoyed)

so....my husband....

YES!!!!! he did 'only' get his hair cut!!!!!!
(well...as far as time he was out goes...he was only 1 hour...and he only drew out £20!!!...) so relieved

Maybe it's working - you know becoming less controlling and him taking control of what he should take control of.

It's strange, it's almost we treat them like children and therefore they act like children.

Anyway our therapist says my DH has acted like a child all his life - has never grown up because his dysfunctional childhood never allowed it. His father got him into picking horses at the age of 7 FFS !!!!!! And the lying started at the age of 5 as a protection against his matriarchal (sp?) grandmother who lived with them all and totally dominated everyone in the household. I have an understanding now of why my DH is like he is and I am like I am and almost how we "zoned" in on one another.

We are desperately trying not to screw up our DC anymore than they already are . BTW DS1's father was an alcoholic and he hasn't seen him since he was 6 so I am keeping my fingers crossed that nuture plays a more important role than nature !!!

Has your DH mentioned the change in you at all ? Or do you think it is so subtle that he doesn't realise it is happening ?

Oh God. Thank you so much for this thread - terrifying as it is!! Yes, I appear to be in "the latter stages of co-dependency". Eek. Wish this had cropped up years ago: I was busy reading 'Mars & Venus' bollox, when what I really needed was a smart slap in the self-esteem!

Dear co-co-dependants, I read your references to being bullied & being a bully - and identified with every word. While I've always known this was an issue related to my background (having to 'understand' my psycho father and 'take care' of my self-deluding mother), this is the first time I've seen it so clearly. I've had some really good therapists; I assume they must have tried to bring it to my attention ... and I must have chosen not to hear what they were saying

Mrs Forgetful, I identify 100% with your becoming "obsessed with 'researching' co-dependancy on the internet!!!" I'm extremely grateful that you've done it - and I COMMAND you to STOP THAT NOW! Oops, bullying ...
All right: May I gently suggest that you're already useful & valuable, Mrs.F. Feel free to get on with your own stuff, we co-dependants don't depend on your co-dependence

There's lots of stuff I want to figure out: I've won awards for my sales and training skills - all connected to "pleasing" and "helping" - so I'm looking forward to discovering how to do that stuff without investing my soul into it (or is that the answer??) More immediately: I wonder if I'm capable of having a straightforwardly equal relationship with anybody, given that I've NEVER enjoyed one of those & don't know what it feels like? Even more urgently, I've obviously let my clients trample all over me (since I 'understand') and am asking how I can rectify that??
Scary stuff.

Anyway. I've rearranged my front room, affording myself a better work space, and went for a family lunch yesterday. Come to think of it ... the lunch happened because I needed my brother's help and mum needed my help. Oh dear.

I've re-read a bunch of stuff about the "locus of control" (same as inner-/other-directed). Even when I thought I had an internal locus of control, I didn't. I was fudging it because I got approval that way. Dammit. All the same, I'm using some of my techniques - like the 'centring' exercises you do for yoga, Pilates & meditation - to see if I can, at least, find my interior!

Love some of your stories - especially your cake episode, Mrs.F! But I shan't go overboard on praise, because that would be co-dependent ... wouldn't it.

TBH my therapist worked out the only time I was truly secure and happy was when I was a single mum, on my own with DS1 - my childhood was crap (drunk, abusive father), marriage No 1 to a full blown alcoholic and marriage No 2 which imploded big time last year and got us into counselling and me into this co-dependency stuff. In fact it was the first thing the counsellor recommended as soon as I started giving her my past details - I was obviously screaming co-dependent at her (my Dsis is now reading the book as I think she has similar issues).

I am learning to say no more now - I think I must be the only mum in the school who does naff all for anything and I am refusing to be drawn into things

LOL @ "we co-dependants don't depend on your co-dependence"

!!!!!

I can't chat now...needless to say...in a very stalkish way...GRACE and Count10... I hear what you are saying!!!!

Dear All:

This thread is fabulous.....

I'm the child of a parent who was seriously ill for most of my childhood. The fall out from that is that my other parent was so wrapped up in that situation, that us children were emotionally neglected.....

I've read a book called "Healing The Child Within" by Charles Whitfield and he said that the children of families like mine, should be treated the same as children of alcoholics - which makes a lot of sense to me. I don't want to demonise my parents, likewise I don't identify with them, either.

I do realise that I have been a co-dependent but have worked on myself for a long time to sort out the whys and wherefores of why I am like I am.

I've taken to trying to "fix" my own little family unit - neither of my children have a Dad who's alive. I try to make things better for them, and I'm at the point now where I realise that there's only so much I can do...... but lots of those boxes on the list at the beginning of this thread, got ticked.....