Co-Dependant No More

[MrsForgetful]

Hmmm....How to start this thread????

I am a fixer. I like to make sure everyone is happy- and feel responisble for everything. I feel ok when in control- and guilty if i do anything for myself...there is more...but that will do for now.

So, I was told about CO-DEPENDANCY...and having googled it...am now working on improving my life by being 'Co Dependant No More'

Anyone care to join me on my journey????

Excuse me for doing a bit of cheerleading for myself

I do the school run. DS1 (6yrs) was ready for to go but I wasn't. He was following me around trying to get me to look at one of his books whilst I was trying to get ready.
My response...
"I'm sorry DS1 I can't look at it now I need to look after myself"

I was calm and relaxed, spoke in normal voice and DS1 wandered off, not particularly bothered.
It can be done!
[high five emoticon]

Very small nod of approval to CBA there, nicely done! (Okay, that's enough affirmation for now ...)

I'm still wondering "how do I feel right now?" I've had a piece of paper, asking this very question, stuck on my hall wall for a month now - most days, I'm doing well if I know the answer is "hungry", "tired" or "need a pee". Still, I guess this is an improvement and am looking forward to the day I can answer the question fully!

I'm reading Paul Gilbert's The Compassionate Mind as part of my therapy. I'm finding it fascinating but, at present, its message seems to conflict with the issue at hand. I'm aware this will change as I move along, though - there's a difference between compassion and 'caring because I get a payoff'. Most importantly, the book will lead me to feel more compassionately towards myself. And that is the issue at hand!

Another medium-term project is to make MY world a nicer place for ME to live in. I made a good start with the room rearrangement - I'm now looking out of the window, over a much bigger desk space, and have more comfy seating as well. All the other rooms need tlc, plus a great deal of DIY. So do I! I'm quite sure I can look & feel far better than I do today

I need to be much more proactive in getting a social life together. It is difficult, living in such a small town, but I can do more ... I'd been thinking of volunteering, but now realise I'd better be careful what kind of work I volunteer for!

And I've got to work on my own business (that is, what used to be my business before I allowed it to die on me). Helping strangers with their problems is NOT work! [note to self]

Grace's Step 3 is:
Recognise I can't do everything all at once; remember I don't have to do everything all alone. Ask for help, and learn to accept it.

This thread is the most amazing help! Thank you. What with you guys and my therapist, well - I feel more positive already

Well done Chaz, same thing happens with DD 6yrs here, I manage now to check my first instinct (which is to stop looking after myself and go and look at the book) but haven't quite managed tone of voice yet (bit sharp, feeling guilty)

From the list:

I do this big time, this was the only way I could live around my crazy alcoholic father and not go crazy myself. It's a survival technique and I did survive but it's outlived it's day now and I am trying to turn it off IYSWIM. I find it's quite a big step though from admitting your true feelings to doing something about them. E.g., at hairdressers this week I was kept waiting 30 minutes without an apology. This mattered as I had a very busy and tiring day.

Normally I would not listen to my own feelings and be pleasant to the hairdresser, saying nothing about her keeping me waiting so long, justifying to myself 30 minutes is nothing, she would wait 30 minutes for me, she's normally nice so there's no need to apologise etc, etc..

This week I felt irritated, was not as friendly as normal to the hairdresser and at one stage made a kind of barbed comment about lateness - she realised I was getting at her I think and when I left I felt a bit stupid. I didn't handle it in a grown up way, it was all very passive aggressive. The thing is I don't actually know how to handle my feelings sometimes.

How would you handle that scenario like a grown woman?

I'm interested in that, too!

I think, these days, I'd have made enquiries after about 15 mins - and asked for a cuppa. But I would have struggled to do it, and in truth I don't know how to elicit the apology. Any grown-ups reading this thread, please advise!

So I'm kind of like a dry drunk - where the alcoholic has stopped drinking, but hasn't fixed his 'problem'. I have detached from almost everybody, even my mother, and have stopped living through forums. But I'm still a co-dependent. I was worrying about how I could complete the activities in the book, since most of the activities require you to think about your relationships. I realised I hardly have any relationships!

Then I came upon the author's remark about how he reacted to his own thoughts, feelings & crises - and realised that's what I'm doing. I didn't stop being co-dependent when I stopped 'taking care' of everybody else: I just started living a co-dependent vacuum. I'm thinking I've unconsciously created many of my own problems ... enabling myself to continue worrying, lurching from crisis to crisis. Not only have I cut myself off from possible support networks, but I've also constructed a lonely little world of anxiety "just for me"!

I thought twice about posting this. It doesn't show me in my best light. But, well, I am a co-dependent. These thoughts mean more to me, for the fact that someone else will read and understand.

I'm off to take one more small step towards building "my better world". Thanks for reading.

WomanOnPluto
so true what you said "I find it's quite a big step though from admitting your true feelings to doing something about them"
Ref the "hairdressers" like you i would have normally said nothing...but now would try to do what you did...and because it is not how i normally behave...would deffinitely feel stupid and regretful after. BUT...i feel this is exactly the things we should be trying to do- and we will get better at it. To 'practice' on people out of our immediate circle is a good idea.

In the past I have bought something, changed my mind and rather than take it back and risk a confrontation...have given it away- or if faulty- thrown it away.
So, next time i am in that situ - i will think of you and the hairdressers! The chances are that she had forgotten all about it in 5 minutes...but we still feel the need to apologise for eternity.
We need to include 'Assertiveness' support within this thread!

ItsGraceAgain
ref 'AFFIRMATIONS'... that was on the CD today (the Beyond Co Dependency one)- i am familiar with verbal affirmations...but the author seems to say that DOING things you enjoy AFFIRM in a big way. (well thats my interpretation!)

Your question: "how do I feel right now?" What would you LIKE your answer to be? Have that as your goal. Write it down on a post it note and attatch next to the question.
I have met a few people in my life that i have just felt a sense of calm and wellbeing oozing from them. That would be my goal. To be at peace with myself- and to radiate it on all around!!!! (hmmmm- sounds like i want to be an angel!)

You mention Paul Gilbert's The Compassionate Mind but that it "seems to conflict with the issue at hand." That is interesting, as i feel a little 'stuck' today- there seems to be a very fine line between CARING and CODEPENDENCY ...and also with feeling SELFISH and acting SELFLESS .

Your 'environmental changes' sound good to me..."looking out of the window, over a much bigger desk space" will bring you a feeling of calm and self control.

The socialising is a point too...how many times in the past 20 years have i replied "I can't, I've got too much to do" or "When i have finished what i am doing" when people have invited me somewhere? (and then i've done nothing at all- and could have gone afterall)Reeks of martyrdom.

Finally, the "Learn to accept help"..... in addition to that, for me I am tempted to add to that..."And when people help me...to leave them alone...not check they have done it right/to my standards and NOT re-do anything they have done"

ChazsBarmyArmy
Well done YOU! I bet that 'looking after yourself' gave you a boost that lasted after the school run too!!!

Lemonylemon Hello! Glad you joined us!
I can't believe how much we all have in common.

GRACE
just raed your last post.

Could have written it myself.

You will not be lonely now. People have commented that i'm not happy unless i'm depressed. Or, i'm lost without a crisis.

and like you...if i'm honest- its true.
The past few days have been a great improvement in many ways...but it all feel sureal- like i'm watching a video of my life...and i am feeling almost a sense of 'co-dependance withdrawal' ...but guess that is normal as i have been this way for at least 30 years...its going to take a week to adjust.

I like searching the web for info...what i will call my RESEARCH from now on!!!
When i find something useful...or uplifting or even amusing...I will post links etc

Also...GRACE & COUNTINGto10... i think we are the only ones familiar with the books by Melody Beattie...and I am therefore going to post again info from her books...to explain things like DETATCHMENT etc. (please add anything you feel is relavent)

CAKE update....

The slice i cut for H the other day...well i ate it that night.
Then...yesterday..i put the container and a knife on the table at teatime...and he did not cut a slice.
I cut my OWN (the boys had kitkats)
H did not cut a slice
TODAY...I joked to him how he was not going to eat that cake out of principle...and he LAUGHED....WE LAUGHED !!!!!
So...progress...as in the past- he would not have laughed- acused me of wanting to start the arguement again.

RESEARCH

The codependancy cycle

Our Logo!!!

All of Us Together

QUIZ

An Easy To Read Description of CO-Dependant Characteristics

ACCEPTING POWERLESSNESS & DETATCHMENT

Don't be surprised Mrsforgetful if you feel a bit empty "co dependent withdrawal" - my therapist pointed this out to me as on one session she asked how I was feeling and, bearing mind what had happened over the previous weeks, I was surprised that I felt very empty. Basically as I no longer needed to worry about DH (as he was sorting himself out) and DS1 as I had sorted out his SN's further ed. I didn't know what to do with myself.

At times, I think I am getting better and at other times, I feel I am slipping back into old ways. It's a bit like that at the moment, I feel so many demands are made on me and the resentment is building big time. Unfortunately DS1 has taken to texting me all the times with his lists of "wants" (he boards at college, coming home every other weekend) and I feel this puts undue pressure on me (the ASD doesn't help as he really is not aware of how he puts things etc).

Anyway I am looking forward to the weekend away at the end of the month, hopefully some time to recharge and just "be". I am struggling to find time to read a book I am really into atm and that is frustrating me.

I'm really moaning at the moment, aren't I. Is this thread feeding our co-dependancy ?

I'm afraid

I meant to delete that last sentence

Anyway a bit of breakthrough for me tonight. Not only is my DH a gambler he is also an "overeater" (currently obese made worse by events in the last 10 months etc) but I have also recognised that I enable him to overeat and he manipulates me in very subtle ways. Anyway tonight after dinner he says "Can I have some jam on top of my rice pudding please?", I say "I'm not doing pudding.", he says "but we agreed", so I say "If you want rice pudding, you can do it yourself." His reply - "Ok then, I'll have a yoghurt".

Amazing isn't it, I stop his overeating by refusing to be party to it, by recognising his and my behaviours. In the past, I would have just made the rice pudding.

What I think has happened is, the gambling got under control and the overeating took over, and | took over with that as well (enabling him). Ah well, I suppose we cannot change completely overnight .....

I'm loving all your dessert breakthroughs! Well, 2 - the cake & the rice pudding

It is amazing! I only needed to "respond neutrally" ONCE to my mum's dramatic phone calls, and once to an ad-hoc visit, then both behaviours stopped instantly. Since then we just have a normal chat every other day, and she visits by appointment.

Now I'm having to stop myself ringing her for a bit of drama! I'm not making that call, though. It's just like the first few weeks after I stopped drinking ... life feels weirdly flat, but I also seem to have about twice as much free time.

well tomorrow...my mum is actually visiting ME (a rare event...and she only lives 10 mins walk away)

so tomorrow i get to practice on her

I have copied some of the 'codependant no more' CD for her...just 10 mins worth- and printed off some stuff off the web and put it in a file for her.

that is where i stop...anymore and i am back to trying to help her TOO MUCH.

If she chooses to listen/read - great- if she doesn't- I carry on making this journey- and she may join me or stay behind.

Everytime she starts on tomorrow about who has upset her, who has failed her, who has not agreed with her...i am going to try and say that I can't do anything about what they do- but i can help her empower herself- if she wants.

the reason she is coming here tomorrow is that she is sick of dad taking over the conversations when i visit them...he is her codependancy focus...(and my brother...and her sister...and her neighbours...infeact almost everyone is her project.)

so i am expecting her to talk about dad...and i am going to handle that exactly as Melody Beattie suggests on her CD...by stating that I can see she is hurting...I cannot comment on dads effect on her...but i'd rather spend the visit talking about HER NEEDS...not HIS.

(hopefully...she will consider my needs...but i don't expect she will- and if she doesn't...well...as Melody says

IT DOESN'T MATTER - IT DOESN'T MATTER- IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!

Great links Mrsforgetful

Good luck with your mother tomorrow !

Wow ... fantastic [awestruck emoticon]
I should get that CD.

HEY, LIGHTEN UP! (That was addressed to myself, but you can have it too if you like )

How long d'you think it'll be before we start becoming too perfectionist over our non-co-dependency??

thinking of your worry about this feeding our codependancy- how about we focus on "THE FEEL GOOD FACTOR" for a bit- rather than dwelling on our struggles?

To lift the mood a little?!

How about THINGS THAT MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD
1)A Film
2)A Song
3)A Flower
4)A Season
5)A Food
6)A Colour
7)A Smell
8)An Animal
9)A Quote
10)A Place

ME
1)Dirty Dancing/Pretty Woman
2)
3)Freesias
4)Spring
5)Lemon Meringue Pie
6)Red
7)Yellow Lenor
8)Hamsters(we have 3)
9)Today, is the Tomorrow I worried about Yesterday... and all is well.
10)My greenhouse

oops...Song...

Ben's brother:

Carry On

A POEM

All about being a WOMAN!!!

Lol. Nice idea, Mrs.F!
Okay ...

1. Dirty Dancing; Priscilla, Queen of the Desert; Mamma Mia
2. Heard It Through The Grapevine; Dock Of The Bay; Respect; WonderWall
3. Gerbera
4. Summer (or autumn, in recent years)
5. Steak & chips; papaya
6. Buttery yellow
7. Coco Chanel; the sea; rainforest
8. Gekkos - they make me laugh
9. "There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do."
10. Any hot & sunny beach; London's Soho

Ooh, I enjoyed that!

Actually my favourite place (10) is Rio de Janeiro; it combines everything about all of my favourite places.

And ... I learned what Maya Angelou said, about being a WOMAN, on the beaches of Brazil. Beauty's not about physical shape, it's a state of mind!
Thanks for the reminder

can't resist pasting the lyrics to that

Ben's Brother Song
CARRY ON

When you're lost, and you're lonely
And your only way is up
When your day rises from you
Like a mountain to its top
Look beside you, and you will find me I will guide you, when your will is gone

So carry on, carry on, carry on
What ever comes, and however painful, however long
When your hope has been denied you
I will walk beside you, carry on

All my life has been a battle Fought within me with myself You always know what the truth is But the trick is to know yourself

I looked around me in the darkness
And you found me when there was no one else

Let me count the ways that I love you
Let me count the days that we have known
Show me a place to be with you
Cos I can't do this on my own, on my own

(phew that was hard work making all those words BOLD....still hope you agree...well worth the effort...great lyrics!)

i heard Maya Angelou's poem on radio4 one day..and she was reading it ...and i was fixed to the spot! I LOVED it!

The confidence simply oozes out of her voice!!!

well...am off to bed now...am actually dreading mums visit tomorrow...not because of her...but worried that i will slip back into 'codependant' mode.

But...if i suceed...then like you said grace ...it only took you 1 'boring reaction' towards your mum on the phone...so i will hold onto that!

Morning all

Thank you all for sharing your steps and congratulations on what you are achieving.

I am not going to engage too much with people individually on this thread as I am at risk of slipping back into trying to fix everyone and offer advice all the time.

Here is my quote for the day
"Because I'm worth it..."

Goal for the day
"Take a small step back and do a bit less"

Hi!

Good idea Chaz...Lets not feel guilty about not responding. (yesterday i worried about this)
Lets agree that we know we are reading the thread...and thinking of each other...but we are not REQUIRED TO RESPOND!!!

For me to type my thoughts down is great...to know others are raeding it is fantastic...

We want this to be theraputic not a chore.

My thought for the day:
"just walk away"

My Goal
"to not feel exhausted after my mum visits"