help me carry on with hyper critical husband

[stuckwithit]

I've got 3 children and am feeling pretty desperate. Husband is very negative to me. Not physically abusive but he gives me a steady stream of verbal aggression for relatively minor misdiminers (spelling?).

It's been like this for years now, and especially since our second child.

I can't do right, often no matter how hard I try to keep the peace. ofcourse sometimes I fly off the handle when I can't take any more- I'm not perfect but I know he is our of order.

His behaviour could be classsed as verbal/emotional abuse but I'm still determined to save the marriage. I beleive he is a good man underneath and he is a good dad but he is pessimistic,critical and importantly, depressed. He does not except that as to him it's all my fault.

Any one been there/ i know that most people who are open to discuss this have been brave enough to leave their relationship, but really i could do with support on how to keep it together.

AF said: "these men are not good dads"

A good father helps his child to figure things out; explains the things a child is too young to understand; teaches his child with patience & humour. When the child falls, a good dad picks it up, comforts it and encourages it to try again. A good dad knows and cares whether his child is well-fed, well-rested, healthy and happy. If they aren't, he tries to put it right. A good father is sad when his children are sad, and he takes pleasure in his children's games and laughter.

A good father takes care to build pride, confidence and security in his children.

I managed to hang on to my marriage for 17 years, before the sod left for another woman. He is still trying to understand why I won't have him back (the fact he's still with her might be a reason.
How did we manage so long. Well after a lot of crying, 2 stone loss in weight and counselling, conclusion is because I spent all my time trying to make him happy. I even ignored another affair. So whilst it not being my fault, but I let him walk all over me. The affairs, well they are just another way of controlling me. It was only after he'd gone that I realised how badly I'd allowed myself to be treated.
So the question you need to ask, how much are you prepared to live with. That sounds really harsh, sorry. But unless he accepts his behaviour is bad, you can't make him change. No matter how hard you try.
OK the good news is I'm slowly recovering so you will but the bad news is, don't expect his behaviour to change once you split up. He's still going to carry on being a twit. Get yourself a really good support network, you will need it. Maybe we need a virtual local network for all of those struggling with similar situations. Hey, thanks to the insomnia, I'm usually up for a late night chat.

Thanks for all the messages.

DH and I talked last night until 2 am without a row. I was open with him that I'm getting advice about verbal abuse and that I'm seriously concerned about the effect on the kids and me.

He was partly receptive but he found it hard to understand that it's purely his problem as we have other problems in our marriage ( not spending enough time together blah blah). I said that ofcourse our marriage is far perfect and there is plenty for us to both work on but that NONE of these issues is any justification for his behaviour, so we shouldn.t discuss them at the time.

I said that I think he needs help for depression through medication and counselling and then we could try couple counselling.

Of course he said 'i bet you read that in chapter 2 of your VA book' and complains he is being labelled. I think good, atleast he is clear on my agenda.

I'm listening to all advice from you

Well done for not allowing him to sidetrack you. Keep at him, expect a lot of opposition; nobody likes to be told he's being a jerk, especially when it's the truth. Repeat until you're blue in the face, stay on message. Tell him sarcasm is not helpful.

Why exactly would you want to spend more time with someone whose hobby it is to criticise and hurt? Delightful prospect.

Blimey, you don't need any advice!! Very well executed, stuckwithit
I love what you said here:
"I think good, at least he is clear on my agenda."
As long as you hold that agenda in mind ...

Thanks Grace, it helped to post that for me because that's what I decided on reflection but at the time it is confusing.

He seems to be genuinely concerned about the effect on the kids. Although he is not able to see the effect on me or care.He talked about moving out for a while to get himself together. I don't suspect an affair, I think he just trying to partly scare me a bit and I think also to demonstrate that he is taking things seriously.he always says that his greatest feaqr is loosing his family.

I know how this must all sound to the astute ears amongst you. Be gentle with me, I'm taking it all in

Next step - timeline

Give him a deadline to have started medication / whatever you wanted

If he doesn't, he's out. If he repeats his behaviour, he's out

Lay it on the line - show him you WILL cope on your own and are quite prepared to.

Don't accept promises without follow up. Take down the calendar and mark dates as you discuss. And don't be intimidated by threats of moving out if you think there's an element of threat. There's probably something veiled in there if he's the one who expressed this thought. Plus don't be too quick to reassure him that he'll never lose his family -- part of bringing up the question of any kind of separation on his part is an attempt to test the waters, see what direction and how strongly the wind is blowing.

stuckwithit So you had a chat, laid your cards on the table and he said:

i) I'm abusive because our marriage is crap
ii) I'll leave you with the kids and worry if you don't tow the line

"He talked about moving out for a while to get himself together. "

yes have him move out for a while.
go for it.

then when he comes visit you set the rules and if he breaks them - here's the door...

reading Pat Evans books that arrived in the post as fast as I can. The 'dream woman' chapter did sound very true to my situation. Anyone else out there who has read all her books and been on the web site? would really to hear your reviews if so? Please?

Havent read all the replies but yes, ive experienced this and like others i left too.I read all sorts of books until it finally dawned that there was something seriously wrong with him and he wasnt going to change.

What can be resolved with someone who as far as they see it, havent done anything wrong and will blame everything on you? Mine was the master of manipulation and like yours would launch horrible verbal assaults on me that eventually my dcs started to join in with.

Sadly op you can read all the books you like , this isnt about you, its not your fault and your not causing it,its for him to resolve and i suspect the chances of him doing that are very slim.

These men are so similar because emotionally there are of a similar age, in just the same way all 7 year olds are very similar.I would put your efforts into seeking counselling and support for yourself instead of trying to fix him or understand him.

Amen, Dignified. Save yourself and your children, Stuckwithit, and save your relationship with your children, because what he is doing with the verbal abuse is undermining their confidence in you and the bond between you and them; when children hear their mum criticised constantly they worry if they are ok with her. They want to love her, but they are horribly torn. The love and respect they have for her is eroded. They know they must side with the bully or become a victim -- it's like a bullying situation in a school where no teacher intervenes to stop it when children live in a home where verbal abuse takes place. They end up saying things to her or treating her in ways that they hate themselves for.

Thanks to you all. This is incredibly hard for me, I am listening to everything you post and it's all making me look very hard at my situation and with new eyes.

I do not think I am in denial right now,I think I am digesting a lot of new information and assessing my options and resources.

From what I learn, the chances of a verbal abuser changing are slim but not impossible. Pat Evans gives a list of indicators for those men that more and less likely to change their behaviour. My DH scores well on the likely side.Which is by no means a guarantee of anything but still.

I know I can't change him. He has to do that.

My plan so far:

1. Give him the agreement as recommended by Pat Evans to wake him up to his behaviour and tell him what is and isn't acceptable. I can't explain the whole agreement here, it's quite a formal thing and I'd love to hear of anyone's experiences of it here.

1. Get individual counselling for myself from a counsellor who recognises that VB is DV. I have found out to get this now.

1. Keep a log of any abuse.

1. see how he responds, long term.

1. have an exit plan

Ok, be gentle with me as I get a lot of critism at home. But I would welcome ideas from you but remember that I'm not leaving at this stage.

Hoping for some feedback and support.

I'll check before bed.

Thanks.
x

Thanks for updating. I hate it when posters just disappear when people have invested time giving advice and support.

I can see how terribly hard processing all this stuff must be for you.

I am not familiar with this formal plan. I guess it is really just what would be appropriate in a "normal" relationship...and picks up what is not acceptable. Perhaps someone will have tried something similar ??

I wish you all the best.

You know I don't post from any positive angle here, but there is just one thing I have noted.

Your list of points 1-5 is all about what you are prepared to do and how you will change. Has he made any undertakings at all to fit in with these plans?

thanks AF, yes you're right it is hard to process and make a plan. overcoming this situation demands a complete rethink of the very fabric of my life.

Yes do expect to see him working on changing himself for me to stay. individual counselling for him and treatment for depression. As well
as no abusive behaviour.

Pat evans spells out more in her latest book.
Yes, I would love to hear from someone else who is trying for the agreement. I am looking her website too but ofcourse i'm interested to hear from mums netters in particular.

I haven't read this Pat Evans.

Good luck x

hello again stuckwithit, I'm glad you came back and I'm sure it has been quite an eye-opener and a lot of information to take in... then there's all that swimming in The Nile.

The thing which worries me most - apart from the whole giving him another chance/drawing up a contract/doing couples counselling etc., is your item 4) see how he responds long-term. What is long-term? Are you going to let him belittle you for 2 years?

I think mat hits the nail on the head when she says that the children will not really understand why he's saying these things to you but perhaps will eventually also say such things to you - and treat you badly - and will go on to have unpleasant relationships themselves.

I think perhaps I'm living in a bit of a bubble because I'm pregnant with only my first - but what I want for this child more than anything else is that it grows up and has healthy relationships - I don't want it ever to have to repeat the mistakes I made. I couldn't wish that.

stuckwithit,

I would also question what "long term" actually is. That is too open ended.

I think you want to give this plan a go because you want to try but you're doing all the work here. What if he tears up this agreement you set and reverts back to his usual verbally abusive self?. I don't actually think this will work because at heart he does not think he has done anything wrong.

Also couples counselling is a complete no go as there has been ongoing verbal/emotional abuse on his part towards you.

BACP have a list of counsellors and they do not charge the earth.

thanks Meerkat, who are BACP? I could do with knowing.

I agree not couples counselling, has to be individual or else he could land up getting approval to carry on with the abuse if the counsellor is not astute. I'm very firm on the no couples counselling thing. Individual only.

By long term, I'm trying to say the he needs to sustain his changes. I think often this behaviour can appear to change but it is only a facade and then the abuse is worse. THis is what I'm reading. I am ofcourse expecting immediate changes and am promising myself to do right by my kids.

Yes, he has to wake up and accept that he is doing something wrong and that the behaviour is abusive.

Thanks again, as this is hard.

If anyone knows any similiar threads they could link me to, please feel free. I tried an advances MN search of verbal abuse but it brings up loads of AIBU threads and unrelated stuff.

am still sifting through the threads with a better search criterion this time but if anyone has an easy link would be appreciated.

Also, again anyone out there tried the Pat Evans style agreement?

off for abit now, will look later

thanks

try a search for "dv" or "abusive relationship", as this kind of relentless criticism often goes with violence.

Or "Lundy Bancroft"

PS I left too. Mine was violent, which sort of pushed me to it in the end. But the relentless criticism was awful.

what about searching the "narcissistic" threads too

there is/was a very long-running thread on that...it had absolutely shedloads of good advice on it