help me carry on with hyper critical husband

[stuckwithit]

I've got 3 children and am feeling pretty desperate. Husband is very negative to me. Not physically abusive but he gives me a steady stream of verbal aggression for relatively minor misdiminers (spelling?).

It's been like this for years now, and especially since our second child.

I can't do right, often no matter how hard I try to keep the peace. ofcourse sometimes I fly off the handle when I can't take any more- I'm not perfect but I know he is our of order.

His behaviour could be classsed as verbal/emotional abuse but I'm still determined to save the marriage. I beleive he is a good man underneath and he is a good dad but he is pessimistic,critical and importantly, depressed. He does not except that as to him it's all my fault.

Any one been there/ i know that most people who are open to discuss this have been brave enough to leave their relationship, but really i could do with support on how to keep it together.

good idea to get support from someone in real life, just don't know how to trust someone. Most of the people are school friends of my children and as such it is gossip mind field.

I must try to think of someone with a bit of distance.

Thanks for all answers.

tsf, I think my mum had a couple of nervous breakdowns when I was a child

I have memories of us going to a "doctor's place" (it was a psychiatric clinic) and us kids used to play in the waiting room for an hour while she saw someone

she used to come out looking fucking shocking

stuckwithit, my mother wasn't always so ground down, she used to be quite sparky, the thing is you lose yourself over time without really noticing..

it starts with moderating your own behaviour to try to cope with someone else's

btw, my father could be nice and normal imbetween outbursts too

as a small child, I used to respond to his nice moods...as I got older I started to think "why the hell should I, when he has shown his contempt for me the day before..."

needless to say, once I stopped playing along with it, our relationship started to go seriously down the pan

if someone was nasty 100% of the time, no-one would marry them, would they..

Point taken AF. How do I assess wether my dh is as abusive as for example your dad? It's not as clear as other forms of abuse where a line is broken and that form of behaviour doesn't go on an any form in 'normal' relationships.

What I mean is, with physical abuse any hitting, shoving etc is clear cut.

But with verbal abuse, a certain amount of bad moods and hostility is part of all marriages at some time or other.

Obviously, those of you who have left were able to make that judgement call. But there's so much at stake so you can understand why I'm not straight away ready to leave the marriage.

Haven't read all the replies but my DH can be a little bit like this. I wouldn't describe him as verbally or emotionally abusive but he is quick to blame and often gets ratty.

Since having children I have become much calmer about the whole thing, especially as DS is nearly 4 now and so aware of much more. I just don't take any notice when he complains - just say yes dear and carry on.

I also will have no truck with him being disrespecful towards me in front of my children. When I object he tries to justify what I'd done to annoy him and my response is always 'it doesn't matter what I've done, I will not be spoken to like that'.

I would say that things are better - he is certainly much better now than he was and he is more aware of being overly critical and often stops himself before it comes out!

I don't know you or your husband, or whether it is an abusive relationship or not - so really can't advise. What I would say is that if you stand up for yourself and refuse to acknowledge his criticism (without shouting or arguing) then it's up to him whether he changes or leaves.

Actually - fuck it. Ignore bad behavious, praise good behaviour. Fun for all the family!

Good luck

Thanks Dittany.

no, aggression is alien to me I have no prior experience of this type of thing.

I have ordered the books recommneded and will check the website.

I'm hoping it's a bad phase and that there is capacity for change. I'm hoping he is not as bad as some.

I don't know, swi

I guess everyone is entitled to bad moods, but when a person is deliberately targeted to take it out on, it crosses a line

I don't think hostility has a place in a partnership, tbh

how much he takes on board and actually moderates it would be telling

not just a few nice words and empty promises and then normal service resumed, next time he fancies using you as an emotional punchbag

if he constantly belittles you, have you asked him why

does he belittle his mates...or his boss ? just you, then ?

does he really have a low opinion of you...I really believe my dad did, and though I am sure he loved my mum in his way...he truly thought of her as a lesser being than him

and though he saw her upset and must have seen the effect he had, he carried on doing it, like he couldn't help himself

have you ever given him any sanctions or consequences, swi

have you told him that he will drive you away if he carries on

does he say "yeah, yeah, I might be nasty but you make me so..."

I dunno, I haven't read the books, this is all me projecting my own experiences

you know him, you know what you can live with

I know I couldn't

my sense of self-esteem I had to battle for in my teens and early 20's (becaue of him) and I made a vow to myself I would never let anyone take that away

I am worth more than that...and so are you and your kids

swi, I am not going to post on your thread again

like I said, I only have my own perspective and it is naturally skewed

you are far more likely to get a balanced view from others, and I have shared more than I meant to

I wish you strength to get to where you need to be x

Does a loving Dad treat his DC's mum like shit?

I'm lucky and have no experience of an emotionally abusive partner. A toxic Grandmother yes but that's another issue.

Seriously, a loving Dad surely doesn't do this to the mother of his kids?

Fruit, thanks I value that.

It's a tricky one this as i would also totally encourage someone in a clearly abusive and hopeless case to get out for their and thier children's survival.

But surely there must also be some grey area here?

ILT, we only hear back from them after about 18 months as a rule, so I can't say ... A great many of the problems are just "stupid man" things and they show every sign of continuing to be much nicer with new partners, having found they enjoy relationships far more when they actually participate in them

One HUGE rider to this, though. Some men ask for support, but betray fundamental aggression or contempt for women in their posts. They don't get much help.

Dunno if AnyFucker would agree with me ... I mistrust any man whose conversation or insults are sexist. It's more than a political view: experience has taught me that such men (starting with my dad) really do hate women. My fellow regulars on the marriage forum agree.

Anyfucker

Reading about your mother brought me out in Goosebumps. From the antidepressants, breakdowns, your relationship with your father etc. I could have written it myself apart from the fact my mum did smoke herself to death in the end. Some escape. My siblings and I still see him but it's out of duty - none of us really care for him or like him. He seems so deluded to the reality of what their relationship was and thinks they were the perfect couple.

AF, I think you've been really kind to share so much with me and I will especially keep that last post of yours and keep checking it as it was completely on the ball.

i do understand that you don't want to post more as we're coming from different angles and this could be frustrating but a big thank you.

fruitstick said: "Ignore bad behavious, praise good behaviour. Fun for all the family!"

Can't beat that for advice

shit, scanty

this is one of my fears and dreads for the future

that my mum will go first

she is certainly having a damn good try at giving herself lung cancer or emphysema

how horrible for you, these men just don't get it do they...

just spoken to Pat Evans in the US and now on her VA bulletin board.

Lots of stuff there but might taj=ke a while for me to feel safe to post.

Anyone else posted there? Willing to share their experience?

MN is my comfort blanket so far in terms of internet chat.

well my mum had early stages emphysema and died at 66 yrs old a year and a half ago with lung cancer though thankfully it was schockingly quick. His family have always lived into their 90's though, she always new he would outlive her. Now he's driving my sister crazy and is really just a sad, lonely old man though can still be vicious when he wants as he like or trusts no one and is extremely paranoid.

"a certain amount of bad moods and hostility is part of all marriages at some time or other."

bad moods yes...tho depends how long they last and in what form they are expressed....days long sulks are not on.

hostility - surely not?

depressed - is he seeking treatment for this? if not why not? if he is, why isnt it working?

why do you like this man?

what does he do that is positive?

what do you get out of it?

other than hoping the "good man underneath" will pop out again - how can it if he doesnt do anything about it eg he gets therapy etc?

ps meant to say that when i was asked those questions and honestly answered them myself i understood why i had to leave my "pessimistic,critical and importantly, depressed" P

La vie, yes hostility is the wrong word but irritability.

No he's not seeking treating for depression. I hope he will.

What do I like? He is loyal, he is a doting dad most of the time, although the odd temper flare up with the kids- but i would say within normal limits for other dads. It's something i'm trying to constantly check that he is not behaving to them how he does with me.

He is reliable, he is a good provider. Although I would never stay with someone only for that, but it is something positive that he does.

we have had good times.

"we have had good times."

do you still have good times?

Being loyal and a doting Dad isn't enough as a husband I fear.

Does he still make you laugh? Does he do kind things?

If you genuinely think he is depressed then you absolutely have to insist he seeks treatment, as obviously this is a factor that can be resolved and therefore things could change for the better.

If he's not depressed, or won't get help - then I think you do have to think whether he is someone that you actively want to spend time with.

Do you think his parents were like this? My FIL is certainly like this and so it does become learned behaviour. FIL still speaks for DH this way. Getting your husband to realise this could help.

I often find that 'you sound just like your father' is enough to stop DH in his tracks.

"How do I assess wether my dh is as abusive as for example your dad?"

This is not the right approach. It doesn't matter what anyone else put up with. What matters is you. You know deep in your heart that this goes beyond a certain amount of hostility and bad moods. It is constant and you feel humiliated, can't win for losing, can't speak without being accused of shouting. You are trying to save a relationship with a human tank who is determined not to engage with you, in fact feels he must crush you to feel good about himself. He has a lot to lose by being normal and human -- all he wants is the ego trip of seeing you belittled.

It will not stop at verbal abuse either. So don't kid yourself that it's not that bad because at least he hasn't hit you.

Once you start down the road of comparing your situation favourably with others who have it 'much worse' or thinking you're ok because you're not being punched, or punched every weekend, or punched every other day (you get the picture) you're on the way to pulling your line in the sand back so far it can't be seen.

You are fucking up your children - is that OK with you? Can you excuse the emotional problems that they will suffer in the future because you like spending time with him on occasion? Do you want your children to believe this is a healthy relationship/

sutck,

re your comment:-
"I'm hoping it's a bad phase and that there is capacity for change"

How long d'you think his "bad phase" will last for?. This has gone on long enough and the end result here is that you and your children all get dragged down with him. They are seeing you being abused by him and they learn from you both. This is no happy family environment at all, your household is a broken one and a tyrant is at the helm.

You hang yourself by your own petard if you truly believe the above. That thought is a triumph of hope over experience and also smacks of your denial of the situation.

You cannot make him seek help if he does not want it - if you think you can control this in such a manner you are dead wrong.

What would you say to a friend in your situation?. Look at this in a clinical manner, not through rose tinted specs. Take them off for a minute and have a bloody good look around your home. What do you see?.
BTW he is not a good dad if he is treating his wife, the mother of his children, in such a manner. Many abused women write the same words re their H as you have done "he's a good dad/provide being a classic comment because they themselves have nothing at all postive to really say about their H.

He does not make you feel loved or cherished does he?. He more likely frightens you and tread on eggshells. What mood will he be in today, how will he be with the kids?.

What is in this relationship for you, you must be getting something out of it otherwise you would have jumped ship ages ago. He is not yours to rescue and or save you know. BTW abuse like this also thrives on secrecy; it is very telling that very few of your real life circle know what he is like behind closed doors.

What are your children learning from you both about relationships?. Damaging lessons are being imparted to them by both of you.
Your children could one day turn around and accuse you of putting his needs and wants before theirs if you were to stay thus making you look very selfish, not just to say foolish and misguided, in the first place. This is no legacy to leave them.

Re accusing you of shouting. I had that one (XH must have read the book on verbal abuse, I see so many exact parallels on threads here). The idea, I believe, is to put you on the back foot so you start defending yourself - "I'm not shouting" - instead of continuing to address his behaviour. Took me ages to work it out because it's natural to me to defend rather than attack, and I hate being misunderstood or disbelieved, as he very well knew. Thus accusing me of lying was one of his favourites.

The trick, I believe, is not to bother denying that you're shouting - you know you aren't, he knows you aren't, you won't actually convince anyone of anything by arguing the point. It'll degenerate into a discussion of what constitutes shouting, rather than what he did that was unacceptable. Assertiveness training recommends the "broken record" technique: keep calmly but firmly repeating the thing you want to say. Added to Fruitstick's excellent approach, the conversation might go:

"You stupid , look what you did"
"You will not call me a "
"But you did so-and-so!"
"It doesn't matter what I did, you will not call me a "
"Now you're being all aggressive"
"You may think it's aggressive, but you will not call me a "
"Now you're shouting"
"I can shout it if you prefer, but you will not call me a "

He'll get bored with it eventually!

Whether it works to an extent you can live with is another question. I lived with it for 23 years because I thought I was strong and could cope with it (plus another two due to lack of options, during which the abuse escalated beyond bearing). In hindsight it was a mistake, but then XH had a bundle of personality disorders to go with the bad example from FIL, so he just got gradually worse whenever I thought we'd put a particular problem behind us. Yours may well be different.

Just a word on the "good father" point: bear in mind that a man can be a good father whilst living apart from his children. He can still see plenty of them and will legally share parental responsibility with you. I'm not saying it's ideal, but it can work as long as you both put the children's needs first and don't use them to score points.

"Re accusing you of shouting. I had that one (XH must have read the book on verbal abuse, I see so many exact parallels on threads here). The idea, I believe, is to put you on the back foot so you start defending yourself - "I'm not shouting" - instead of continuing to address his behaviour. Took me ages to work it out because it's natural to me to defend rather than attack, and I hate being misunderstood or disbelieved, as he very well knew. Thus accusing me of lying was one of his favourites."

Annie this is me and an exact description of my dealings with exh. I hated being misundertood and disbelieved as well as my Mum was and is actually very similar to exh and would often create unpleasant motives for me and my decisions and then accuse me of them, I could never defend myself and be believed.

Stuckwithit You are making some very positive steps already by posting on here and contacting Patrica Evans. I think the fact that you are questioning this will obviously lead to you becoming better informed and more aware of quite how serious and unacceptable this. That was certainly the case for me after reading the books talked about and other peoples experience on MN.