Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Should we separate?

167 replies

Gangle · 03/01/2010 23:09

DH and I have always had a difficult relationship but it's been particularly bad since DS, 21 months was born. Have posted about this separately so won't go into too much detail but basically he is nasty, selfish and emotionally abusive. He is a dr and works long hours which he uses as an excuse to rarely help out with DS. Because of his job, he claims he is constantly exhausted - if not working, he will have at least a 2 or 3 hour nap whilst I'm running around like an idiot, despite being 28 weeks pregnant with DS2. Naturally, he does nothing around the house - I organise everything, pay all the bills, do all the cooking, laundry, plus work full time in a demanding professional job. I could live with him not doing anything if it wasn't for his other behaviour - he oscillates between ignoring me and criticising everything I do, from my appearance to the way I raise DS. DS has an amazing vocab yet the other day DH commented that I should work on improving this asap. He has various obsessive compulsive disorders, for example, throwing my possessions away (have posted separately about this) and takes/uses my possessions without my permission, for example, he runs his car out of petrol then takes mine and drives it until it runs out of petrol. He did this a few weeks ago and also let the back window open so that the rain got in and drenched DS's car seat so when I came to use the car the next day I found it unlocked, emptied of petrol with the backseat and DS's seat soaking wet. He also incurs numerous parking tickets when driving it and doesn't tell me - first time I found out was when I nearly got a CCJ against me (he's binned all the reminders etc). He is horrendously disorganised so going anywhere or doing anything with him is a nightmare as we'll miss the flight/train or he'll forget his keys, or if we do make it I'll nearly have a heart attack from the stress of it. He ignores 99% of what I say so never does anything I ask, refuses to ever get up with DS so I NEVER get a lay in, even if sick, pregnant, whatever, doesn't matter, he won't get up so I have to. If he does then it's after so much naggging and rowing it's such not worth it. I just need a tiny amount of help, one lay in a month would be heaven, but he just can't do it. On the other hand, he finds time to go to football on Tuesdays, the gym on Wednesdays, see a counsellor on THursdays and usually out and gyms at least 2 other nights a week. If I want to go out or do anything then I have to get a babysitter as he cannot be relied upon to turn up or will turn up late. I am basically a single parent. I'm not sure if I still love DH. I think he does love me and I know he loves DS but his behaviour is just unbearable. His mum and a close family friend who has known him all his life agree that he is a bully and think he has a personality disorder but nothing I say or do makes him change. We row all the time and I am getting sadder and sadder and more and more lonely and it breaks my heart to think of raising DS and the new baby in this environment, or taking them away from their father when I know he does love them but who is slowly destroying me. To complicate things further, DH is supposed to bed taking a job in Nashville, US, in June. DS2 will be 3 months. He is insisting that we all go but I am refusing as I cannot move 2000 miles away with the relationship the way it is, nor do I want to move whilst DSs are so young with no support network etc. Seems like a natural time to separate but still very sad that he can just up and leave and not care about not seeing his children. He is putting on the onus on me, saying I should move to ensure the children see their father but I don't want to leave my home and my support network and a well paid job which could be my only means of support in future to move there. I just spent a week alone with DS as he went away over NY (to his mother's, I refused to go) and the house felt so lonely and empty, think I will find it really hard being alone. Sorry, this is turning into a ramble. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
Gangle · 14/07/2011 15:45

Just been to see a divorce lawyer which has freaked me out even more, if that's possible. Just so painful to talk practicalities and I'm horrified at the prospect of having to agree overnight visits for the children. They would hate being away from me overnight! Thinking I will maybe put it on hold until I feel a bit more sorted in my head. He is still asking me to go to counselling to talk things through but at the same time saying he still has feelings for this woman and wants to go back to Nashville to see her again to "get closure.@ Would I be totally mad to even consider counselling on this basis?

OP posts:
holyShmoley · 14/07/2011 15:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dozer · 14/07/2011 16:03

The children would be fine overnight with their father, and if they wouldn't be, then why are you still in the relationship, exposing them to someone who you wouldn't want them overnight with, every day in their home? Overnighters may be some way away anyway and you may well be able to work out something different while they're small.

You seem to be wanting to hang on to the relationship and clinging to the crumbs he throws you, being strung along. Denial? If he was serious about wanting to be with you and loved you he wouldn't still be behaving like this, after everything.

Go to counselling, but by yourself.

Fear is horrible, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing. "Feel the fear and do it anyway".

Dozer · 14/07/2011 16:04

Listen to the ladies on page 5 (e.g. bibbitybobbity": "Oh come on Gangle. I remember your op so clearly. You've already wasted another 18 months on this dreadful relationship. Just start the divorce proceedings.")

Do not waste all of your 30s on this person. 35 is too young to give up.

Gangle · 14/07/2011 16:12

I just can't bear the thought of my children staying in a different house overnight without me there.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 14/07/2011 16:35

why?
why would they not be ok with daddy?
you need to rationalise for them - what would be the issue?
then address that issue

if it is about you missing them - well when you single parent you may just be glad of that night off to go do your own thing

Dozer · 14/07/2011 17:18

Worth some nights of missing the kids for a happier life.

Gangle · 21/07/2011 21:19

Just finding it all so devastating, even though his behaviour has been so appalling throughout our relationship, this is really on a new level. So much grief and very difficult to disengage and to start thinking of a future without him, though I think I am making a start. I still just don't get how he can walk away from me and two beautiful amazing children without even having tried to save things. He's trying to persuade me to go to counselling but I just don't see the point as he still has feelings for this woman, despite her living 5,000 miles away, and the fact that he has done NOTHING to save our marriage or to suggest he wants to be with me. Very very hard. Plus, my eldest, who has always been such a bright, happy and caring child has in the last few days become very aggressive and emotional and actually seems depressed which is so out of character for him and undoubtedly due to the horrendous atmosphere in the house and him picking up on my mood. Really really trying to be upbeat and positive around him, can't bear to think he is going to be damaged by this, but it's so hard, especially as H is walking around without a care in the world. Just hoping it gets better soon and I can be strong for my boys.

OP posts:
MadamM · 21/07/2011 21:37

Gangle your ds is NOT going to be damaged by your divorce from a man that has no respect for you. He is going to be damaged if you stay because he will learn a way of relating to women that are not acceptable. He will also pick up behaviours etc... that you probably don't want to see in your dcs.

Your H is just playing around with your feelings. He has no consideration whatsoever about how you are feeling. Saying to someone that you love then then you still love the ow, that you want to go for counselling (so if you don't then that's your fault if thinsg don't pan out) etc.... is just cruel.
Starting all the divorce proceding is frighteneing and difficult. But life after that will be much much better!!

ExitPursuedByAGryffin · 21/07/2011 21:46

Whoa - have read the first page of your thread - and then saw the date, and jumped to the last page, and then to clarify read the next to last page and will read the rest tomorrow, but please, please just get a grip and get away from this man. You are letting him toy with your emotions as if you have no say in the matter. I have several friends who have broken out of destructive relationships and they all talk of the calm and happiness they felt when they knew that their DP/DH was no longer coming into the house.

Please be strong and get away from him. Your DCs will be fine.

Laquitar · 22/07/2011 08:43

Gangle, people with personality disorders are usually attracted to long distance relationships because they are fantasists. They have problems with normal every day life, wife, close friends, people at work. Even if he has the 'closure' with this woman i can bet you my house that he will start another fantasy, 'romantic' story on the internet. He is going to worn you out completely.

What is the point of having a good career and very good earnings if you dont use it for your dignity, freedom and choice???

cestlavielife · 22/07/2011 15:38

" undoubtedly due to the horrendous atmosphere in the house and him picking up on my mood"

absolutely - the sooner you break off and the DC know they safe and secure with you the better.

life became so much more peaceful and happy when i moved away from ex - it did take DC a while but they totally fine . so much happier.

yu cannot stay in this situaiton - your DC already showing you they suffering from it. they need a clear picture . your H/ex cannot give them that. let him go - send him away to new woman and establish life for you and DC.

Gangle · 26/07/2011 22:44

He is supposed to be moving out on 1st, finally, so I am praying things improve but worried that they will get harder before I feel better. I had a few days where I felt more positive and in control as my mum was here so I felt bolstered and didn't speak to him but she left yesterday and I'm unfortunately getting dragged into the mire again. I MUST stop speaking to him as it's just too painful and I will never ever understand how/why he is leaving us. He said again tonight that I should let him do his own thing (i.e. go back to see this woman in Nashville to "resolve" his feelings) but then keep the door open in case he wants to come back and resolve things with me. Apparently some women would be ok with this and I'm very "black and white" because I'm not. He is also trying to say this is all my fault because I starved him of affection. Trying so hard to be strong but on the point of giving up. Just can't see a way through this.

OP posts:
SpringchickenGoldBrass · 26/07/2011 22:57

Look, this man is your enemy. He likes hurting you. I know abusers like him are very clever at grinding their partners down but you are really doing yourself no favours here by trying to cling onto him; the sooner you are rid of him the better.
Continue with counselling for yourself to unlearn the lesson that it's worth trying anything and putting up with any shit to Keep Your Man: this man is not worth keeping and no man is worth putting up with any old shit in the vain hope that he will change his mind and decide to 'love' you instead of being horrible. He won't.

Dozer · 26/07/2011 22:58

Gangle, am worried about you, what do you mean, give up? If you need help, please contact the samaritans.

If you mean give up on the relationship, then that is GOOD and not before time!

The way out of this is out! Can you not get him to move out? Who owns/has the lease on your property? If it's you, kick him out.

You really, really, really need to get some space and cut all but essential contact. Don't wait for him to go, he may drag this on for months - take charge. Take further legal advice, take steps to move him out of your property or for you both to move out - you won't be able to be ok while unde the same roof.

It doesn't matter why he has done what he's done, the fact is that he is treating you abominably, it doesn't matter why.

Your dc are not behaving like this because of you, but because of him!

Please listen to the advice here and in RL.....

Spero · 26/07/2011 23:03

You went to Nashville with him? You don't like yourself very much do you?

Do you want to be updating this thread in another 18 months with more doom and gloom?

Or do you want to start living the only life that you and your boys will ever have?

Dozer · 26/07/2011 23:06

From your original post over 18 months ago: "his behaviour is just unbearable. His mum and a close family friend who has known him all his life agree that he is a bully and think he has a personality disorder but nothing I say or do makes him change. We row all the time and I am getting sadder and sadder and more and more lonely and it breaks my heart to think of raising DS and the new baby in this environment, or taking them away from their father when I know he does love them but who is slowly destroying me."

Do not let him destroy you or damage your kids. The future will be soooooo much better if you can make the break now.

Spero · 26/07/2011 23:11

I don't want you to think I am harsh or unsympathetic. I have been where you have been and I know the gut wrenching terror of contemplating a life 'on my own'.

But the reality is that I was always on my own - but on my own with a selfish unkind person who did not love me and never would.

You don't just have yourself to consider but two young boys. You stay with him, that's their template for how men behave.

Please don't do that to them. They, and you, deserve a lot better.

But I struggle to see why you are still having this debate with yourself nearly TWO YEARS and plentiful good advice later.

don't bother asking 'why'. People act like shit because they can. If they can't create, they can destroy. Just get out now if you want any kind of life for yourself and your children.

HerHissyness · 26/07/2011 23:18

What SGB says is spot on "Look, this man is your enemy. He likes hurting you. I know abusers like him are very clever at grinding their partners down but you are really doing yourself no favours here by trying to cling onto him; the sooner you are rid of him the better."

I wished someone had said this to me. My X left and went back to his country, the hardest thing was to let him go, but let me tell you, as you felt in that week when he was not with you all that time ago, very soon you feel at ease, in peace, tranquil and safe.

Hold onto that memory. It is your future.

Encourage him to go visit the OW, tell him that he has to get it out of his system, anything, but get him to leave your home, then BAM! that's it, refuse to let him back.

Don't worry about overnight visits for the DC, it's WAY too early for that , and things like that have to be negotiated, agreed and worked towards. Don't ever use the children to stop you getting free of this terrible tyrant. Your DC will be poisoned by him too. Do you want them to repeat what they have learnt?

Please be a little bit brave, let him go, and get on with your life, one step at a time. If I can do this, so can you!

notlettingthefearshow · 26/07/2011 23:23

From what you have said, to me it seems like you know you want to leave him, and you just want some reassurance from others. Good luck in following through with it - not easy, but you will find the strength once you acknowledge in the long term it will be best for both you and your kids.

Gangle · 26/07/2011 23:37

Thanks all. It's just frustrating that I seem to be going around in circles. I face the fact that it's over and it's for the best (deep down I know it is) but then he'll say something else and it's like I'm experiencing the pain all over again, the hurt, rejection, everything, and it's too much. I have days when I make strides forward and feel sad but actually ok but then days of blind terror, fear and sadness. I worry that I will be alone forever as I can't see how I will ever meet anyone and if I do how I could ever trust anyone again after this. It does help though to think of him as the enemy and to always keep my guard up and never show any signs of weakness as it gives him a way in. He really is like the devil! It's just so unbearably sad to see my 3 year old change before my eyes. I am praying it's reversible and we can pull him back as soon as ex-H has gone. He claims he is moving out on 1st - we jointly own our house so I cannot force him to leave and all the advice I have had has been to stay in the house at all costs. If I left I honestly wouldn't put it past him bringing this woman over for a holiday plus I would have to keep paying the mortgage AND rent somewhere else. Also, this is my sons' home and they are done nothing wrong so I'm damned if I'm going to be the one relocating.

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 26/07/2011 23:49

The sooner you get this horrid man away from you the better your life will be come FASTER! Every day that you spend with this creature is one day less in your life that you will be happy.

The sooner you get him out, the sooner you will be free.

being alone forever would be better than what you are going through right now, but I am willing to bet that as soon as you are ready to start opening up your life to a real, caring, proper man, you will find one.

As soon as your exH has gone, you will see your boy return to the sweet little man you know and love. My DS was better in a matter of days. He is 5.

It doesn't matter about legalities, many, many cheating men are slung out by their wives, he will be one of millions. He has a right to his equity, but he has no right to torture you and abuse you this way. LET him take you to court, tell EVERYONE exactly what he has done to you. I doubt he'd be so cocksure if he knew all his dirty, filthy linen would be in full view, and on public record. Fight this evil man tooth and nail to get him gone, tell all about his vile treatment of you, every last detail. Secrecy breeds abuse, only the truth can free you. Trust me.

I think you will find that if he leaves to go see the OW, you ought to be able to insist he stay there. File for divorce, get a restraining order against him, don't think for a second he wouldn't do the same to you.

Yes keep the house, but no, don't put up with him in it.

HerHissyness · 26/07/2011 23:50

You are understandably scared of him, but you have right on your side.

He's a classic bully, rules by fear and intimidation. Don't let him away with that! stand up to him.

Gangle · 27/07/2011 00:01

I pray you are right HerHissyness. I could kill him for that alone. Since I came back to the UK in December, after a month of settling in, DS1 positively thrived and was absolutely fine and perfect with just me (and a great nanny). I hope we can get him back there. I wish DH had never come back and caused all this pain. This time next week he will be gone and hopefully I can then see it as the end, draw the line and start to move forward. Just worried about him trying to pop back whenever he feels as he's only moving 10 minutes away. I suppose the best thing to do is to fix agreed times each week that he can see them so that there is some kind of routine and no random dropping in when he feels like (the locks will be changed (or one added) anyway). I am also worried that he'll have this woman over for a holiday and introduce my boys to her. Not sure what I can do about that?? The thought is almost too horrendous to contemplate but I suppose I just have to get to a place where, so long as they look after the boys, I don't care.

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 27/07/2011 00:15

I promise you, you WILL get back there! You absolutely will, oh and nanny or no nanny, you will get there. Trust me. I know what I'm talking about here!

Yes of course you can ADD locks, you won't have changed the locks... Grin He has no right to pitch up at your home willy-nilly. Absolutely agree fixed times, but the minute he starts to muck you about or disregard you/your wishes suspend all contact if that is what you want to to. This man IS a bad example, so the least amount of contact with them the better tbh.

You don't have to agree he takes them out, you can agree that in the divorce, so put it off for ages if need be. Seeing as he is abusive, (shout it from the roof tops) you can stipulate it has to be done at a contact centre. No judge will order you to do horrific things when he has heard what you have gone through. WE here are fed up to the back teeth of these monsters treating us like this, the courts surely must be too!

Get some support from women's aid, and whoever else you can get to help you. Have you spoken to the health visitor, they can be immensely helpful.