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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Should we separate?

167 replies

Gangle · 03/01/2010 23:09

DH and I have always had a difficult relationship but it's been particularly bad since DS, 21 months was born. Have posted about this separately so won't go into too much detail but basically he is nasty, selfish and emotionally abusive. He is a dr and works long hours which he uses as an excuse to rarely help out with DS. Because of his job, he claims he is constantly exhausted - if not working, he will have at least a 2 or 3 hour nap whilst I'm running around like an idiot, despite being 28 weeks pregnant with DS2. Naturally, he does nothing around the house - I organise everything, pay all the bills, do all the cooking, laundry, plus work full time in a demanding professional job. I could live with him not doing anything if it wasn't for his other behaviour - he oscillates between ignoring me and criticising everything I do, from my appearance to the way I raise DS. DS has an amazing vocab yet the other day DH commented that I should work on improving this asap. He has various obsessive compulsive disorders, for example, throwing my possessions away (have posted separately about this) and takes/uses my possessions without my permission, for example, he runs his car out of petrol then takes mine and drives it until it runs out of petrol. He did this a few weeks ago and also let the back window open so that the rain got in and drenched DS's car seat so when I came to use the car the next day I found it unlocked, emptied of petrol with the backseat and DS's seat soaking wet. He also incurs numerous parking tickets when driving it and doesn't tell me - first time I found out was when I nearly got a CCJ against me (he's binned all the reminders etc). He is horrendously disorganised so going anywhere or doing anything with him is a nightmare as we'll miss the flight/train or he'll forget his keys, or if we do make it I'll nearly have a heart attack from the stress of it. He ignores 99% of what I say so never does anything I ask, refuses to ever get up with DS so I NEVER get a lay in, even if sick, pregnant, whatever, doesn't matter, he won't get up so I have to. If he does then it's after so much naggging and rowing it's such not worth it. I just need a tiny amount of help, one lay in a month would be heaven, but he just can't do it. On the other hand, he finds time to go to football on Tuesdays, the gym on Wednesdays, see a counsellor on THursdays and usually out and gyms at least 2 other nights a week. If I want to go out or do anything then I have to get a babysitter as he cannot be relied upon to turn up or will turn up late. I am basically a single parent. I'm not sure if I still love DH. I think he does love me and I know he loves DS but his behaviour is just unbearable. His mum and a close family friend who has known him all his life agree that he is a bully and think he has a personality disorder but nothing I say or do makes him change. We row all the time and I am getting sadder and sadder and more and more lonely and it breaks my heart to think of raising DS and the new baby in this environment, or taking them away from their father when I know he does love them but who is slowly destroying me. To complicate things further, DH is supposed to bed taking a job in Nashville, US, in June. DS2 will be 3 months. He is insisting that we all go but I am refusing as I cannot move 2000 miles away with the relationship the way it is, nor do I want to move whilst DSs are so young with no support network etc. Seems like a natural time to separate but still very sad that he can just up and leave and not care about not seeing his children. He is putting on the onus on me, saying I should move to ensure the children see their father but I don't want to leave my home and my support network and a well paid job which could be my only means of support in future to move there. I just spent a week alone with DS as he went away over NY (to his mother's, I refused to go) and the house felt so lonely and empty, think I will find it really hard being alone. Sorry, this is turning into a ramble. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 12/01/2010 10:55

gangle =-my exP was exactly like that, also OCD tendencies, focused on minor transgressiosn on my part - he used to call me from what iw as doing - eg reading storyw ith dc whatever - i woudl trot along to be told "look at this! you stacked the dishwasher wrong again!" many more examples - also teh emss thing - once he gatehred up dcs's toys and took tehm all off to hospital etcetc.

it is NOT sustainable and you need to talk things thru with womens aid or other counsellor. is there realistically someplace you could go now? relatives?

i think you also need to get papers documents and a bag packed in case you need to flee - my guess is he is suspicious something is up and will get more agressive. you need an escape plan.

sorry to sound dramatic but there will come a day when you have to make a stand and say "i do not accept this behviour and we are leaving" - even if first time is only for a night away. you need to be ready to pick up and leave to somewhere when he becomes abusive...

he is taking advantage of you being pregnant. if you need to leave the house how would you go? taxi? keep money handy. car - do you have your own car keys?

is there someone a friend you can call to come over - set a code word or password you can call or text her/him. which means "come over please right now" or "call police please".

keep your phone in your pocket at all times.

my ex was OCd, picky as you say, shouty abusive - and when you say you leaving he will try to stop you - you need to prepare in your mind. that made it easier to follow thru - tell yuorself, next time he does xxx i will pick up ds and we will go to xxxx.

cestlavielife · 12/01/2010 11:09

gangle x posted. i was in same situaiton,. tell your solicitor the whole story in every detail - you can get an injunction to get him out but reality is he has to do something "really bad" first and it will likely cost £2500 or thereabouts to get an urgent injunction.

the verbal abuse is his word against yours and no doubt he would present well if needs be. he has professional standing and is difficult.

i felt that money better spent on moving out...

at some poitn you will need to make a stand. you could ask him to leave but i doubt he will.

you could make plans to leave even for a temporary short time to break the cycle.

you could look into possibility of renting yourself - not the ideal but for me was only way.

is there someone you could stay with for short time? were family going to help with the new baby? can you go to them?

you could enlist support of his mother? that she urges him to go stay with her for a while - on pretext of you both sorting things out from a distance (but my guess is he wont accept that).

you cannot just carry on in this situation.

Gangle · 12/01/2010 11:27

My mum has offered to come and stay. Whilst I don't want any guests at the moment, even family, think it is the only way to break the cycle and get through the next few months. When others are here he comes over all nice and reasonable, surprise, surprise. She will totally stand up to him as well. Can't see getting an injunction but now thinking a formal separation or even divorce is the best route. From what I understand though, even if we separate, he still can't be made to leave the house.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 12/01/2010 12:15

"When others are here he comes over all nice and reasonable, surprise, surprise"

indeed - and i certainly saw this too... but would he be able to keep this up over more than a few days? if so, great!

but watch out for when she leaves, even for an hour...

still, it sounds like you have a plan, which is good.

ItsGraceAgain · 12/01/2010 13:01

I'm relieved to hear about your mum, Gangle. I should think that any change to the status quo will be welcome! It'll be interesting to see how he deals with it (more concentrated attacks in shorter times? Pick on somebody else for the duration, at work maybe?) but, above all, you need to reduce your stress and gain support

This could give you the breathing space you need, to work out your best way forwards to freedom. Don't hold back when talking to your mother, she may have some brilliant ideas too.

Take care.

Gangle · 06/07/2011 22:39

I'm picking this thread up from ages ago because I need advice and don't have time to give all the background. To summarise, I went out to Nashville when DS2 was 4 months old. I ended up loving Nashville but the relationship went from bad to worse with incessant arguments and DH continuing to be bullying and aggressive on a daily basis. I ended up coming back to London last December because i needed to go back to work. I could possibly have stayed out there longer but they'd been restructuring at work and I was worried about losing my job whilst on maternity leave plus the situation with DH was near impossible so I made the decision to come back despite DH being out there until the end of May. I also lived off my savings throughout my maternity leave with him just covering the rent in Nashville which he thought was a huge deal despite the fact that I was still paying the mortgage and bill on our house in London! So, I came back, recruited a nanny and got myself back to work. DH came back for Christmas - we argued of course but he phoned me from the airport on his way back to say that he loved me. He then came back for a week at the end of February then insisted that I bring the children out for 3 weeks in March for their birthdays. I didn't want to go as was busy at work and the relationship had been so bad and was very strained even over Skype but he insisted so we flew out. We were there for 3 weeks and during that time he was absolutely horrible to me - cold, contemptuous, nasty and either biting my head off or ignoring me. It was like he really didn't give a shit anymore. Something felt strange but I couldn't put my finger on what it was. Anyway, he finally arrived back in London for good almost a month ago. Again, he was very cold then told me that he didn't know how he felt about me or what he wanted. I then managed to get access to his hotmail account (he logged into it on my computer and hadn't logged out) and found emails between him and another woman which showed that he'd been having an affair. I confronted him and he admitted that he's been seeing her for 2 months although I suspect it's longer. This was almost a month ago and since then it feels like I've been living a nightmare. He said he was sorry about the affair but said he didn't know what he wanted and wanted time to think. He has lied about so many things - he said he didn't bring her to our apartment in Nashville but I then found photos on her in our apartment in Nashville. I also found out then he'd met her BEFORE the children and I went out there in March which made me sick to my stomach as he'd already slept with her, probably in our bed, and that was no doubt the reason why he was so cold and contemptuous. I'm trying to get him to move out as it's unbearable but he's taking his time. I know things were horrendous and that the relationship had been bad for years but I still cannot believe that he has done this to me and the children and, what's more, that he isn't even fighting to save it. He still doesn't know what he wants and is refusing to break it off with this woman! The most he'll say is that he's not in touch with her "at the moment" but may want to see her in future. He insisted that we go to a Relate counselling session today so, after much thought, I decided I had nothing to lose and went. We went through it all with the counsellor and he said he wanted to go to counselling so that we could try to learn to communicate. I then said that I couldn't even begin to think about counselling unless he broke it off with the other woman. The counsellor told him that he needed to make that choice. He refused to do so so so I've said no more counselling and that he needs to move out. She lives in Nashville so I have no idea what he is thinking/hoping will happen with her but I just cannot understand why he cannot finish it with her if it means there may be a chance that we can talk. Even if we did talk I don't think I could ever get over any of this but I am still just so devastated and saddened by his behaviour. Will I ever get over this? I feel like I am living a nightmare and will carry this with me forever.

OP posts:
quiddity · 06/07/2011 23:06

OP, I'm putting this in paragraphs and adding some punctuation, so people can read it:

I'm picking this thread up from ages ago because I need advice and don't have time to give all the background.
To summarise, I went out to Nashville when DS2 was 4 months old. I ended up loving Nashville, but the relationship went from bad to worse with incessant arguments and DH continuing to be bullying and aggressive on a daily basis.
I ended up coming back to London last December because i needed to go back to work. I could possibly have stayed out there longer, but they'd been restructuring at work and I was worried about losing my job whilst on maternity leave, plus the situation with DH was near impossible, so I made the decision to come back despite DH being out there until the end of May.
I also lived off my savings throughout my maternity leave, with him just covering the rent in Nashville, which he thought was a huge deal? despite the fact that I was still paying the mortgage and bill on our house in London!
So, I came back, recruited a nanny and got myself back to work. DH came back for Christmas - we argued, of course, but he phoned me from the airport on his way back to say that he loved me.
He then came back for a week at the end of February then insisted that I bring the children out for 3 weeks in March for their birthdays. I didn't want to go as was busy at work and the relationship had been so bad and was very strained even over Skype but he insisted, so we flew out.
We were there for 3 weeks and during that time he was absolutely horrible to me - cold, contemptuous, nasty and either biting my head off or ignoring me. It was like he really didn't give a shit anymore. Something felt strange but I couldn't put my finger on what it was.
Anyway, he finally arrived back in London for good almost a month ago. Again, he was very cold, then told me that he didn't know how he felt about me or what he wanted.
I then managed to get access to his hotmail account (he logged into it on my computer and hadn't logged out) and found emails between him and another woman which showed that he'd been having an affair.
I confronted him and he admitted that he's been seeing her for 2 months although I suspect it's longer.
This was almost a month ago and since then it feels like I've been living a nightmare. He said he was sorry about the affair but said he didn't know what he wanted and wanted time to think.
He has lied about so many things - he said he didn't bring her to our apartment in Nashville but I then found photos on her in our apartment in Nashville.
I also found out then he'd met her BEFORE the children and I went out there in March which made me sick to my stomach as he'd already slept with her, probably in our bed, and that was no doubt the reason why he was so cold and contemptuous.
I'm trying to get him to move out as it's unbearable but he's taking his time. I know things were horrendous, and that the relationship had been bad for years, but I still cannot believe that he has done this to me and the children and, what's more, that he isn't even fighting to save it.
He still doesn't know what he wants and is refusing to break it off with this woman! The most he'll say is that he's not in touch with her "at the moment" but may want to see her in future.
He insisted that we go to a Relate counselling session today so, after much thought, I decided I had nothing to lose and went. We went through it all with the counsellor, and he said he wanted to go to counselling so that we could try to learn to communicate.
I then said that I couldn't even begin to think about counselling unless he broke it off with the other woman. The counsellor told him that he needed to make that choice.
He refused to do so so so I've said no more counselling, and that he needs to move out.
She lives in Nashville, so I have no idea what he is thinking/hoping will happen with her but I just cannot understand why he cannot finish it with her if it means there may be a chance that we can talk.
Even if we did talk I don't think I could ever get over any of this, but I am still just so devastated and saddened by his behaviour. Will I ever get over this? I feel like I am living a nightmare and will carry this with me forever.

shocked2 · 06/07/2011 23:13

hi gangle - you now have the perfect "excuse" to divorce your husband - not that you need an excuse as he sounds absolutely horrible - with any luck he will stay out in nashville and you can re-build your life. He doesn't sound like the kind of person who could ever change either. Even though he is blatantly in the wrong, he is finding a way to blame you for his affair by telling the counsellor he wants both of you to learn how to communicate. Don't worry about trying to communicate with him any longer, please love yourself and get as much support from family and friends around you so that you can move on from him.

Gangle · 06/07/2011 23:17

Shocked, he is back in London now, for good. Would be easier if he was in Nashville. Still can't believe this is happening and so upset for the children. DS2 wasn't even 1 year old when he started cheating. He will never know a family life. It's breaking my heart.

OP posts:
MalibuStac · 06/07/2011 23:21

gangle read through and I have to agree you have no reason to stay with this man. Your a strong self sufficient person who's husband is trying to restrict, dictate and control your life. Get out now if not for you but your ds's.

pestroid · 06/07/2011 23:25

Gangle, you are strong woman, dump him and teach your sons how to be better men than thier father.

shocked2 · 06/07/2011 23:25

Sorry, I did not understand that your dh was back in London. I am sorry you are feeling so sad. Your ds will still have a family - yourself and his brother for a start. By all accounts divorce is hard at first but people do come out the other side happier. You will then be able to look back at your relationship with your dh and see how badly he treated you and know that you deserve so much more. Can your mother come and stay with you to help and support you?

pestroid · 06/07/2011 23:27

but gangle family life is dad treating ds2's mam like a piece of shit and not caring enough about ds1 and ds2 to want to get up with them even once a month. better to have a calm and staid family life with just your mam, than to be living in a war zone with both parents.

cestlavielife · 06/07/2011 23:30

your DS2 and other DS has /have chance to grow up in a home with one parent but with love secuirty and no rows, and a mother who is hapy confident and secure in herself not ground down by a controling H. who has someone else anyway ...

surely that is better than a so-called "family life"? the family life you have described with H is -well - you know what it is/was

if H bucks up he can stil be a father to his DC - who will grow up with a routine of seeing him on set days

quiddity · 06/07/2011 23:30

I hate to say this, Gangle, but it sounds as though the only reason he is around at all is because he is back in London and the OW is in Nashville, and even then he can't be bothered to pretend he still cares.
He sounds like far more work than he is worth. It certainly seems as though in practical terms your life is much easier when he's not around and he isn't contributing in emotional terms either.
It must be hard to accept, especially after you've made so many sacrifices for his sake and for your DCs, but you are better off without him. Don't let him keep you in suspense any longer, and cut him loose so that you can move on. You and your DCs will soon be happier.

FabbyChic · 06/07/2011 23:40

Dont let him have access to your car keys, tell him that enough is enough and you are taking no more, he might be irresponsible and useless but you have yourself and a child to consider and that you are no longer allowing him possession of your car keys.

Can you support yourself and your dudes if you move to a smaller house with a smaller mortgage? Is their equity in your house so that you can sell it and both make a profit from it? Generally it is good to have a fresh start away from the family home, make a hope just for you and your boys.

FabbyChic · 06/07/2011 23:44

Sorry didnt read your last post just seen it.

This man gives you nothing, no love, no respect, yet you pine for what you might have been able to have.

The chance of anything good coming out of your relationship now with this man other than your children are nil.

He doesn't love you but probably feels a sense of duty towards you because of your children.

YOu will be better off alone you will know where you are going, and what the future holds. At present you have no control over the relationship.

See a solicitor, force a house sale, move on from this man he will wear you down to nothing.

jasper · 07/07/2011 01:10

Gangle, I recall your story.
Your husband sounds really horrid.
He was horrible last year, and nothing has changed.

I DO understand how hurtful the discovery of the affair is for you.

But really, it does not change anything. He was a crap husband before the affair.

This may be very harsh, but you need to grow a backbone, not a wishbone.

waterrat · 07/07/2011 06:50

Gangle - while his behaviour regarding this other woman is appalling - why are you surprised? He has been cruel and unkind to you throughout the past two years - this is just another example. I am astonished that you are finding any reason at all to work at this - you say you want him to go to Relate - why? This man is awful - he has clearly ground you down with his unkindness so that you have completely lost sight of what a happy balanced relationship is.

Relationships should be a calm port in the storm - the place where you feel safe, loved and happy. You are providing the worst possible environment for your children to grow up in by staying with him - please do not feed yourself excuses about keeping the family together. This man is abusive - one phone call from an airport does not mean he loves you - it just means he called you to say he loved you - love is ACTION. Love is treating someone with respect.

Read back your original post of a year and a half ago. Nothing has changed - you could have left him then - now, you have given it one more chance but please stop torturing yourself now.

The affair has got you scrabbling to save a relationship that you didnt want to be in anyway - you only get one life Gangle - please dont waste any more of it. IN order to learn how to be happy your children need to see you take control of life and be happy yourself.

waterrat · 07/07/2011 06:52

and - re. your comment about living in a nightmare and never getting over it - I think that the way you will get over it is by taking control of your life again. Get some counselling just for you - and you will need to look hard at why you have stayed in an unhappy relationship for so long - seemingly believing that there is no alternative.

People do come through this - you will - try to look ahead - do you want to be in this position in a year? in ten years? get out now so you can rebuild your life - look to the future where you are providing your children with a calm and stable home.

Gangle · 07/07/2011 13:49

I just don't get why he wanted to go to counselling but then refuses to finish things with this other woman!! How can he expect that I would even attempt to salvage things with her in the picture??? Not that I would anyway. Psycho!!

OP posts:
shocked2 · 07/07/2011 14:03

Yes, I think psycho sums it up perfectly gangle. Someone who plays mind games and who thinks the world revolves around them. Don't waste any time worrying about his motives and set about building your own happy life with your dc.

buzzsore · 07/07/2011 14:04

I think he did that because he has no respect or compassion for you, because he sees you more as his property than a person. As far as he's concerned it's how dare you make a demand of him. He has a massive sense of entitlement and he thinks you'll just put up with however he behaves for ever and ever and ever.

Gangle · 07/07/2011 14:13

Yes, that all makes complete sense. So unbelievable though. I just want him gone so I don't even have to think or worry about this crap anymore. Infuriates me that he's still in the house when he clearly doesn't want the marriage anymore and can't even pretend to care about me. Just so painful but he's oblivious to the hurt he has caused. He spent much of the counselling session venting about how I had damaged the relationship by being too emotional and not showing him any affection and that I was the one who left Nashville etc so of course it's my fault. I wonder if that's why he wanted to have counselling, i.e. to feel less guilty. I also still can't work out what he is hoping will happen with this woman when she lives in Nashville and he now lives in London??? I don't really see how/why he thinks that is much of an option unless he is planning on a) conducting a long distance relationship or b) moving her over here but seems odd having only known her for a few weeks (allegedly). I know it doesn't matter really but am wondering if he's using it as a way out rather than because he is actually intending to start things up with her again.

OP posts:
shocked2 · 07/07/2011 14:36

Hopefully for you, he WILL bugger off to Nashville! There will be other men in the future who do not play mind games and who are not selfish and immature - you will be amazed at how little time you will have to spend worrying about their motives and how much more time you can spend being happy with them!!!
Being single is good too though - you will have time to re-build your self-esteem and joie de vivre.