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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Should we separate?

167 replies

Gangle · 03/01/2010 23:09

DH and I have always had a difficult relationship but it's been particularly bad since DS, 21 months was born. Have posted about this separately so won't go into too much detail but basically he is nasty, selfish and emotionally abusive. He is a dr and works long hours which he uses as an excuse to rarely help out with DS. Because of his job, he claims he is constantly exhausted - if not working, he will have at least a 2 or 3 hour nap whilst I'm running around like an idiot, despite being 28 weeks pregnant with DS2. Naturally, he does nothing around the house - I organise everything, pay all the bills, do all the cooking, laundry, plus work full time in a demanding professional job. I could live with him not doing anything if it wasn't for his other behaviour - he oscillates between ignoring me and criticising everything I do, from my appearance to the way I raise DS. DS has an amazing vocab yet the other day DH commented that I should work on improving this asap. He has various obsessive compulsive disorders, for example, throwing my possessions away (have posted separately about this) and takes/uses my possessions without my permission, for example, he runs his car out of petrol then takes mine and drives it until it runs out of petrol. He did this a few weeks ago and also let the back window open so that the rain got in and drenched DS's car seat so when I came to use the car the next day I found it unlocked, emptied of petrol with the backseat and DS's seat soaking wet. He also incurs numerous parking tickets when driving it and doesn't tell me - first time I found out was when I nearly got a CCJ against me (he's binned all the reminders etc). He is horrendously disorganised so going anywhere or doing anything with him is a nightmare as we'll miss the flight/train or he'll forget his keys, or if we do make it I'll nearly have a heart attack from the stress of it. He ignores 99% of what I say so never does anything I ask, refuses to ever get up with DS so I NEVER get a lay in, even if sick, pregnant, whatever, doesn't matter, he won't get up so I have to. If he does then it's after so much naggging and rowing it's such not worth it. I just need a tiny amount of help, one lay in a month would be heaven, but he just can't do it. On the other hand, he finds time to go to football on Tuesdays, the gym on Wednesdays, see a counsellor on THursdays and usually out and gyms at least 2 other nights a week. If I want to go out or do anything then I have to get a babysitter as he cannot be relied upon to turn up or will turn up late. I am basically a single parent. I'm not sure if I still love DH. I think he does love me and I know he loves DS but his behaviour is just unbearable. His mum and a close family friend who has known him all his life agree that he is a bully and think he has a personality disorder but nothing I say or do makes him change. We row all the time and I am getting sadder and sadder and more and more lonely and it breaks my heart to think of raising DS and the new baby in this environment, or taking them away from their father when I know he does love them but who is slowly destroying me. To complicate things further, DH is supposed to bed taking a job in Nashville, US, in June. DS2 will be 3 months. He is insisting that we all go but I am refusing as I cannot move 2000 miles away with the relationship the way it is, nor do I want to move whilst DSs are so young with no support network etc. Seems like a natural time to separate but still very sad that he can just up and leave and not care about not seeing his children. He is putting on the onus on me, saying I should move to ensure the children see their father but I don't want to leave my home and my support network and a well paid job which could be my only means of support in future to move there. I just spent a week alone with DS as he went away over NY (to his mother's, I refused to go) and the house felt so lonely and empty, think I will find it really hard being alone. Sorry, this is turning into a ramble. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 03/01/2010 23:58

you are already taking all the responsibilty aren't you ?

please don't "stay for the children" only for him to wear you down so much you have to leave for your sanity in 10 yrs time, when it would be much more damaging for them

the ages they are now (well, including the one still to be born ) are really the best in terms of limiting the emotional fall-out for them

like hb said, if you don't go to Nashville, is that a dealbreaker as far as he is concerned ? Because that could be your breathing space from him to decide what you really want

Gangle · 03/01/2010 23:59

thanks hbfac, that really helps. I suppose I would feel odd the first week and it was over NY which is probably why I felt lonely as people were away/baby groups closed etc. He has gone away for a week before and I've loved it. And you're right about not precluding them from having a family, just the family the way it is, whichs is dysfunctional.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 00:01

he is dysfunctional, it seems

Gangle · 04/01/2010 00:03

AnyFucker, the more I think about it the more I think it's giving me a perfect opportunity to see how I go without him. Will let him go and see what happens/how I feel. Only concern is that he is pressurising me to go and says unless I do then he may not go which could be disasrous as he'll blame me for not going. I also worry about him not seeing the children but like you say, they are very young, and I can make sure I have family/friends around so that they are not just stuck with a boring depressed mummy.

OP posts:
Gangle · 04/01/2010 00:03

disastrous

OP posts:
Gangle · 04/01/2010 00:05

AnyFucker, I was going to speak to a family lawyer this week to get some advice on separating, maintenance payments etc if he moves from the country and takes a job with a lower salary. Good idea do you think or jumping the gun?

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 00:06

be a bit canny and encourage him to go

but I would make it clear you are not happy and he should really see this as a trial separation...how do you think that would go down ?

pipsqueak · 04/01/2010 00:09

use the time as a trial run to see how things are on your own without him . it seems to me that you would be much better off on your own but this would be a good opportunity to see - wishing yoiu all the best whatever you decide .

SolidGoldBloodyJanuaryUrgh · 04/01/2010 00:12

SPeak to a lawyer immediately. TBH you need to make sure you have your DC's passports and lock them away somewhere. Abusive men like this (and make no mistake, he is abusive not just lazy and detached, he is making a conscious effort to make you unhappy and make things difficult for you) sometimes take the DC out of the country and don't return them. Also, knowledge is power - once you have got al the info about separating from a good lawyer, you won't be prey to the other favourite abuser trick of 'You'll leave with nothing/I'll have you locked up as mental/I'll sue for custody and get it'.

AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 00:13

yep, sg is right

AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 00:21

gangle, come back and update us won't you (I expect you have gone off to bed/to have a good cry)

we will help you and MN is always here

Anniegetyourgun · 04/01/2010 09:57

I don't understand why you accept the argument that you are "breaking up the family" when he is the one who's moving overseas. It is as if the man's choice is the only one that matters - not the woman's needs, wants or convenience, not what is best for the children (except the only thing that matters to him, their being with their father; but he's moving whether they come or not, so just how important are they to him?).

I agree it sounds very likely as if he has a personality disorder which means he CANNOT see anyone else's point of view - and as you have observed, nothing you say is ever going to make a difference. If you don't fit in with his world view, he just doesn't hear you. You won't be able to convince him you are right - nobody can. Therefore you need to make your decision regardless of whether he agrees or not. If he said "let's all jump off a cliff", how long would you spend trying to talk him out of it before you gave a deep sigh, shut your eyes and jumped? Would your last words be "Well, I told him it was a bad idea"?

You are doing an incredible job there, running a household single-handed, sorting out childcare for one child and expecting another, all whilst coping with a highly paid career that anyone apart from him would admire. Maybe the most wonderful man on earth is worth giving all that up for, but then the most wonderful man on earth wouldn't expect you to.

BrahmsThirdRacket · 04/01/2010 10:06

Bin him.

If he never does anything with the DC, they're not really missing out are they? Plus it's not good for kids to grow up around twats. You're not the one taking them away from their father - he is. If you are totally hideous to someone as he is then you can't really blame them when they decide they've had enough.

You are practically a single parent now anyway, so it won't make much difference to the DC except the atmosphere in the house will be a lot less toxic.

Definitely get legal advice and put the kids' passports somewhere safe, maybe at work or a friend's house so he absolutely can't get them.

Gangle · 04/01/2010 16:58

Thanks again everyone for such supportive posts. Anniegetyourgun, yours in particular hits home - you've really hit the nail on the head. He just cannot empathise or see anyone else's position so it's pointless trying to reason with him as he can't see beyond what he wants. I'm just an annoyance getting in the way of what he wants to do. I forgot to add that he hates his job (all his appraisals are appalling, saying he is aggressive etc, not cut out for that speciality) so Nashville is really a whim, not like he is fulfilling a lifelong dream or something. Point taken about passports although I honestly think he is too lazy/disorganised to arrange to singlehandedly take 2 children out of the country. I now feel much more justified in sticking to my plan of refusing to go and, as AnyFucker says, making clear to him that I see this as a trial separation. That will at least give me breathing space (and time without being bullied/harrassed!) to decide what I want which I can do much more clearly without him around. When he is apart from us he calls constantly telling me how much he loves me etc and that he misses me but as soon as he gets back it all goes out of the window. Maybe time apart will give him some clarity as well. Have made an appointment with a family lawyer for Friday to get some advice on what I can expect him to pay if he disappears off for a year whilst I'm on maternity leave!

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 18:41

gangle, you sound lovely and like you have gained some clarity here

I think it is very telling re. his appraisals being poor

do you think he calls you with kind words just to keep you on the leash, like "oh, I'll just call gangle and say a few pretty words to keep her sweet..."

then when he sees you he cannot maintain it

he really sounds like he has some kind of personality disorder/lack of empathy/Asperger's or summat, I dunno

but none of that excuses his lack of regard for you as his life partner and mother of his children, he just sounds bloody horrible

mrsboogie · 04/01/2010 21:46

He sounds more than horrible - he sounds like he has a real personality disorder; he sounds utterly devoid of empathy.

If he is then there's not much hope for a normal loving relationship is there? I would also be wondering where the spare income goes with your combined income...

If you earn more than 3x 25k then you should be well placed to set yourself up without him (or if he plays silly beggars with respect to maintenance).

This staying together for the children malarky is a load of tripe IMO. If your children are the only thing keeping you together in an otherwise unhappy an unhealthy relationship then those kids are probably suffering as well.

They are babies - they won't even know what they are missing if you split now. The worst thing you could do is to be sucked into going with him - sounds like he is trying to run away form himself - except of course he can't and guess who will end up paying the price for that?

AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 21:50

precisely

blimey, I do spend a lot of time agreeing with mrsb...

BrahmsThirdRacket · 04/01/2010 21:56

Wow, if he's a doctor and his appraisals say he's aggressive then he must be a right cunt.

groundhogs · 04/01/2010 22:04

Gangle, I remember you, you're the one with a DH only marginally less useful than mine...

Don't ffing do it, don't go to Nashville, if you go, you will be cut off from everyone that could help you. I've been 2,000 miles from my family, with selfish DH and been utterly on my own and can't stress to you enough what damage it did to me.

You have DC2 on the way, I only had DS, if I was tied there with 2 DC, I honestly don't know what would have kept me from walking into the sea.

Stay here, sort yourself out, be that what it is.

AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 22:08

blimey groundhogs, that is an evocative picture you paint...

I am typing blimey a lot today...

HeWontSleep · 04/01/2010 22:28

Gangle, my husband is incredibly loving and supportive and yet, like any marriage, I want to kill him sometimes. So how the hell can you put up with yours???

There IS someone much much better out there for you, please dont stay with him because you feel no-one else will want to be with you, a feeling commonly shared by women in your situation.

Time for life to change. It can only get better.

PS Im a Dr, worked 70hours a week prior to ds1 and still treated my partner very well, if I may say so myself

cestlavielife · 04/01/2010 22:38

sounds like my exP - down to the abusive beahviour then the "i miss you i love you" read lundy bancroft why does he do that etc...

i also used to "have to get a babysitter as he cannot be relied upon to turn up or will turn up late" - it really isnt a way to live.

let him go to nashville on his own - you have a good job. he can visit if behaves...

why are you lonely without him? do you have friends ?
are you missing the fantasy husband you think he can be if he only tried? do you honestly miss him and his behaviour? or has he made it so difficult for you to keep them (the babysitting thing)

no you cannot change him - but you can make your life a lot better. you wont be breaking up the family - you will be making it better. because you can be much happier....

he will have to make some effort to keep in touch with his kids though. he may give up - or he may become agressive in delaing with his. either way stay firm in what you want and what you decide ...

groundhogs · 04/01/2010 22:39

AF! evocative? perhaps!

True? absolutely!

I'm home now, that's the main thing, everything else will get better in time...

AnyFucker · 04/01/2010 22:58

just such a horrible picture you painted gh, I really felt for that person you were then

WetAugust · 04/01/2010 23:33

Don't even consider going to America if there's a chance you will eventually seprate.

If you do then you will be caught out by the hague Convention which means that
If you are living in the US then your child's normal place of residence will be seen by the courts to be the US and you will have no option at all of returning to the Uk with your child. You will be stuck in the US.