Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

[Scorps]

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

I don't know much about Relate but with counselling generally it's not so much they recommend as they support you to reach your own decisions IYSWIm.Both of you- it's quite feasible that he willthink Oh I fucked up- and by then you will have had enough.

What's the chances, in your most honest deep down gut instinc, that as a fairly young man he's panicking about ds4 and almost talking himself out of the relationship IYSWIM? Or convincing himself that after the last year he doesn't deserve you- punishing himself?

Don'tfeel abd for him feeling guilty though: you'reninemonths pregnant, it'sChristmas- of course he should feel guilty. Even if he isn't playing away or planning it, he has a history of screwing up and he has done wrong along the line.

I think he is confused and thinks the issues can't be sorted therfore I'm the wrong partner for him iyswim.

I wondered if they will see how conflicting he is and encourage him to really look at this?

He said today he feels inches away from breaking. So
e days he says when I go, others if I go... And it seems to depend on my behaviour. If I'm blasé he says if, if I'm screeching he says when.

Last night I needed a wash, he got in the shower with me washe me an my hair, got medressed after. Mum says that's more than looking after me. Today hasn't been good but I think he's out tonight which is nice

my dad rang today and when dh leaves is goin to give me some money (thosands) so I won't always be on breadline. My friend said she can sleep here and dad said I can sleep at theirs with dc4.

Scorps, what was discussed in the first session with Relate ? In ours they asked what had happened to get to the position of needing Relate - basically he left to be with OW. We talked about our life, 4DC, business/financial pressures etc. Therapist could see DH was in a bad mental state and told me to be easy on him !!!!! DH had moved in with his mum at this stage - me on my own with 4DC. She suggested an individual session each, so she could go into our individual backgrounds and our individual views on what was happening. This I think was quite important because there was stuff I discussed that I wouldn't have felt comfortable saying in front of DH and he was the same.

After that we had weekly sessions. Going through these sessions, there was no agenda on either mine or my DH's sides ie he didn't have in his head that on such and such a date I'm leaving Counting and I was the same. I felt these sessions were very supportive, asking us how the previous week had gone, how we were feeling, had anything significant happened that we felt we needed to discuss eg if I had had a screaming melt down about OW, we would discuss what had happened, why I felt like I did and what he felt etc. Our marriage was really one day/one week at a time. If there was a problem we would say, I'm not discussing/dealing with this now, will discuss at Relate next time. It helped to have a third party mediating at the crisis point in our marriage.

We came out of it with a better understanding of each other and better at communicating properly before things become a problem - we have grown up at the grand age of 43 and 40 respectively.

Sorry for the ramble - hope it helps.

Events of the last year, how we got together, what our relationship was like at first. What be both wanted.

Have they suggested individual sessions ? After the first session, our therapist just said be easy on DH and patience and tolerance on both sides. Oh and I was told to "button it". That was the plan of action until next session and he had to help me with the DC as much as possible as he wasn't living here at the time.

There was no expectation that the marriage would fail or survive IYSWIM, just day to day.

No they haven't said about individual sessions yet. She said to do our 'plan' of baby and Xmas cos that's what we decided an to come back after. She said to be kind to each other and for dh to be around for dc. She offered no opinion or insight into stay/go/outcome.

I think on 5th she will expect us to return and for dh to know abit more?

How would your DH feel about an individual session? You said he had had counselling before. She probably needs to know about his childhood to understand what is happening in his head atm and also about your background/previous relationships etc.
You can probably suggest individual session if they don't. Our pasts really do impact on our present in how we respond to situations etc. If we understand why we behave like we do then we can change etc.

He would do it if suggested. He has no plan past 5th jan appt. Will they help us/him decide what to do? He seems to not know his head from his arse day to day.

Dear scorps. I've been following your thread with interest, as I'm going through a similar marriage breakdown, though I'm not pg. I just want to send you some 'golden glows' and offer you my support. I really do hope you reach a decision soon, as there seems to be a lot of uncertainty, which is driving you to despair and I can relate to that feeling too. I have decided to go to Relate as I feel this is the last 'to ditch or not ditch' attempt at fixing our marriage. We have never had counselling before and DH is not a good communicator. He chooses to express his feelings physically - gets angry when not happy, and gets very touchy, feely, wanting sex when content and happy!

I had no expectations of Relate, until I read these posts. Thank you to everyone for sharing. Scorps I'm thinking of you. Be strong..x

Scorps, they won't tell either of you what to do but they help you to get things straight in your heads IYSWIM. You discuss the things you are not happy with and he can discuss the things he is not happy with. They explain why you both behave like you do (did some flow diagram etc for us re my insecurities etc). They help you gain perspective on things (mountains out of miolehill etc). You find you start talking about one subject and then it migrates to another. TBH our time in the session seemed to go very quickly, we ran over a number of times. But in talking, things become clearer etc, you see the wood for the trees.

Hopefully, if he is prepared to just wait and see, go in with an open mind, not expecting miracles, both you and he will gain a greater understanding of each other, which in turn leads to forgiveness, intimacy, deeper love (Agape). Both you and he should be prepared to feel absolutely awful afterwards as well. It brought a lot of things to the surface that I had kept completely buried (but came out in my behaviour) and it was the same for my DH.

I never thought I could/would get past by DH affair etc, but both he and I are in a far better place than we have ever been in our relationship/marriage. I still think about the affair, not as often and not with so much pain attached to it. We both now know how our marriage reached that point. And even if the marriage hadn't survived, I have come out of the counselling with a greater understanding of myself.

Just wanted to add my support Scorps.
I've seen your pic and you are gorgeous! So sorry you are going through this.

Scorps I know this sounds odd but I wonder if he needs to break iyswim- Dh and I got to a similar sthe years ago when I was allready and keen for dh to leave, horrid time,and that was what it took really- a complete breakfdown for us both and gradual rebuilding. Had you asked me in the middleof it I would have said over definitely; DH was the one fighting- the reversal of where you two are now.

Again Scorps, FWIW the therapist told my DH that he did right thing in leaving (but not going off with OW) because our relationship at that time was like being in a pressure cooker with no release valve. We needed to be completely apart to come back together again and this is probably where Relate came in, helping us come together again in a positive, adult way.

Last night I started spotting and aching and he came home and rubbed my face and back etc. He cuddled me in the night.

Right now he is looking for his passport and driving license 'to get them together in one place'.

Just why is he doing all this to us? why can't someone stop him?

Honestly? It sounds like sheer fear and panic. I don't think he has a clue what he wants, and i think it's going to be a bit of a personal journey for him to find it.

But don't let yourself be a casualty of that: regardlessof whether he comes back, stays, moves away- your life will continue and that of your DC's. you need to be strong to keep yourself safe,and you know what? Feeling the pain and hurt is part of that, becuase you need to be realistic of what he is doing to you, not just his struggles. Every action has a reaction, and all that. In six months if you are together in any form, you will not feel the same about him in my experience- we found a great loss of the innocence in our relationshiip which was sad, but replaced with a deeper sense of security and depth.

You must at least try and stop worrying about whether he feels bad, guilty about all of this- his shoulders should be broad enough to take that on seeing as he instigated it all. Just be what you need to be for yourself.

I feel so on edge all the time, my heart keeps racing, i just dont know what to do.

My parents said it sounds like he didnt want to soften up so did osmething proactive (to him) about going iyswim. My Dad said he will show his colours when the baby's here.

How odd to cuddle me, wash me, he called me babe and hun last night; then to be like that. I found his license and then he visibly relaxed. Im gonna suggest a strol lto the park i think.

He is going to an awards do tonight; that girl J will be there. Feeling more uneasy about that day by day.

Scorps, I have no advice but I am so sorry you are having such a hard time.

Scorps, I think your dad is right, his true colours will come out in the end, all will become clear etc. Trust your gut instincts about that girl - I wish I had trusted mine (though DH denied everything until he was blue in the face). It just seems to be the same pattern as my DH did to me. Your H is probably very depressed as was my DH, maybe even going through a breakdown (like my DH) but it didn't stop my DH having an affair as it made him "feel" again (he wasn't in love with OW just attracted to how she made him feel).

By the time we got to Relate my DH was on the point of suicide as by that time he had completed f**ked everything up - home, business etc. No man in his right mind would be doing what your H is doing to you. My DH is horrified, appalled, disgusted etc with his behaviour at that time - he actually walked out at the beginning of the Easter holidays and 2 weeks before DS1 took his GCSEs. I begged him to stay until DS1 had sat his exams but no, he had to go then (OW pulling etc). DS1 did not do as well as expected and DH knows he is probably to blame for that. DS1 was distraught when he left "another dad has left me ". Some of these things are quite hard to forgive and if you do get through this with your H, you may find it hard to forgive him for what he is putting you through now.

Look after yourself, your DC and get support from your family, do not rely of your H. My mum, sister and h's sister were fantastic to me. DH's sister begged him not to go as well as her DC have been completed screwed up by her divorce (CAMHs involved etc).

The truth will out in the end and all will become clear.

He seems very clear about going. I have come to my parents house. The only reason he is in the house is ecause he is the only person who can be available 24/7 for small baby.

I just think I can't believe he can actually do this to us, me and the kids.

He's not the sort of man to come back either; this is it. He doesn't seem to realise that my behaviour has been such because of his lying & cheating.

I now have to face up to him going, me a single parent of 4 under 7, benefits. My parents and friends will pick up the pieces but what about the logistics of the baby and visiting her and breastfeeding, time away for me etc? How can he do all this? He acts on one way, says another... He says he has been acting like that to 'care' for me cos I looked like I needed care. But yet he still said about relate to talk and get feelings out. But he's adamant about going.

Scorps, my DH was adamant about going, no if no buts, sod the DCs, pending exams whatever. He was going and he went. Fortunately he did have a "road to Damascas" conversion and realised what he was doing. If may have been when I made him collect his stuff, contacted solicitors, when I started calling the shots etc and also OW started to show her true colours. But I did start to take control after 3/4 weeks, to get on with my life as it was going to be (solicitor told me I was likely to end up in rented accommodation, on benefits with 4dcs as he had completely f*ed our finances). That was the worse case senario (sp?) and I thought I could live with that - I would still be me and I would have the DC (but not it seems if OW had anything to do with it but that's another story).

One of my dearest friends actually told me to work on the assumption that he is not coming and she was right, you have to get on with things and you will.

I hate to say it again, but it is all pointing to him having someone waiting in the wings - you only have to watch the affair on Coronation Street play out to see the pull of it. And he is saying exactly the same thing as my DH said and nothing, however logical, would/could have convinced him otherwise. Let him go and build your life with your DC, heal yourself first, go to Relate on your own if necessary, and then when you are ready you will find someone who will treat you as you are meant to be treated.

"that he is NOT coming back" oops

Hi Scorps. I'm really glad to hear you're at your parents now - you need to be in loving surroundings. It is good to hear you say that your behaviour is in response to his actions, I think it is good that you realise this, even if he is too ... well, whatever, to realise that.

Reading back over the last couple of days, I can see you becoming stronger somehow. I know it must surely not feel like it now, but you will be ok. Your friends and family love you more than anything, and like you say, they will be with you to help you pick up the pieces. When he leaves, it will be his loss. A big one at it.

Keep an eye on your health, speak to gp or hv if in doubt. We all care about you so much and are thinking of you.

Thanks

I have a CPN and a homestart coming. I'm going to sleep at my mums tomorrow and they have said I'm fine to home birth there if nessecary. I also have put money away and my parents are well off enough to support me until benefits are sorted.

I ate a whole roast at mums

He has just asked for a chat. Wants to go GP tomorrow feels very depressed he said, like he's hanging on to a cliff and scraping down. Says he hasn't eaten all day ( I have been at my mums) an keeps being sick. I said u hv friends don't u ( as he keeps throwing in my face) ad he said it's not the same. His family are nothing like mine; mine are amazing and my dad said tonight he would crawl the earth to get to me. They are wonderful and are going to be my tower.

Scorps, he is seeing you getting stronger and getting on with things, your life etc. You are not crumpling without him.

When I made my DH pack his stuff, he actually said the same as your H, that he was hanging on by his fingertips . He was in fact trying to extracate himself from OW who was proving to be a bit of a bunny boiler.

It is wonderful that your family are proving to be your rock - that's what family is for, to be the soft landing for you.

Scorps, have just seen you post on our antenatal thread.

I'm so sorry that all of this is happening to you right now. You have always seemed very strong, sensible and wise on the antenatal thread and I'm so pleased that you have good rl support.

You cannot change your dh's behaviour at the moment and tbh I don't think that you should even try to interpret it as he seems all over the place, from a skim of this thread. Do whatever feels like the right thing to do for you and your lovely dc and take one day at a time. hugs.