Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

[Scorps]

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

Yes you are!

There was no emotion towards me in the text at all, I wonder if he is over all this?

Trying to convince myself MY future will be ok, happy. That I will meet someone one day. Trying to ignore him and what he wil get up to. Worried I wontvever feel at peace, but surely time will do that?

It's weird feeling so many mixed emotions.

Ah texts and emails are tricky things. He didn't show any emotion in the text - doesn't mean it wasn't there. He might have planned what to say quite carefully.

It's dangerous I think as you can misinterpret things so easily if you don't hear them face-to-face.

I'm sorry to be harsh (and I'm sure he's not over it yet as it's a big deal and it's still very fresh) but what difference would it make whether he's over it or not, in practical terms.

You deserve better - and the only way you'll get it is by staying strong and moving on without him. Whether or not that's what he wants.

Anyway, off to bed. Goodnight!

It actually doesn't make any difference as it can't continue but it feels weird. He used to say he would die without us.

My panics seem to focus on life to come rather than past. Nothing anyone is saying is helping. Dad says I have no self esteem and that's why I'm so concerned. I did think last night come on Stef you're only 25 but I do have 4 dc. But then ibthink about summer and having weekends to myself an surely that's when life will be more mine, I might start seeing someone or something then. Feel so worthless.

Every morning I wake up thinking this.

My friend had her baby today. Jealous she has het sp to look after them.

It actually doesn't make any difference as it can't continue but it feels weird. He used to say he would die without us.

My panics seem to focus on life to come rather than past. Nothing anyone is saying is helping. Dad says I have no self esteem and that's why I'm so concerned. I did think last night come on Stef you're only 25 but I do have 4 dc. But then ibthink about summer and having weekends to myself an surely that's when life will be more mine, I might start seeing someone or something then. Feel so worthless.

Every morning I wake up thinking this.

My friend had her baby today. Jealous she has het sp to look after them.

You have a lot to cope with and it must seem like a mountain to climb at the moment.

One thing has come to my mind this morning. The early years with children are damned hard work, and being on your own that is magnified many many times. One tiny bit of hope for you (and I can say this because mine are now a bit older) is that there will soon come a point where your DCs start to give back to you. Its in small ways, but it will happen. You will see the wonderful people you have put together/brought up and that kind of feeling is worth millions. You will have this fourfold.

I know they will also give you a LOT of grief , but they are yours and they are the ones who will help pull you out of this. Focus on them and giving them the best future you can. The love they have for you is unconditional and one of the strongest things you have at the moment.

To your DCs, you are worth more than words can say - certainly not worthless. You will start to feel that soon, just be kind to yourself and take small steps forward.

Am on my own till after lunch today

feels like K has left us all and just got over it just like that

feels like my life is hindered, hemmed in with what he's left me, I have the shitty end of the stick.

I will probably never settle down with someone else as they won't want 4dc and my limited time to spend with them

I want him to stop bothering me in my mind. Comfy in my own skin.... Keep repeating that to myself

feel like I'm making no progress I can't even see him yet such a wimp.

This morning I started to wonder why he dumped me again...., how can someone say they would die without us, and then do this?

I hate living a life full of hurt and fear. He is one ofthose assholes who will land on his feet with a woman and be great forever. I will struggle forever. How can he do all this and appear to be over it?

"how can someone say they would die without us, and then do this?" - Because actions speak louder than words.... Some people can talk the talk, but can't walk the walk, so to speak!

"feels like my life is hindered, hemmed in with what he's left me, I have the shitty end of the stick." - Actually, it may well feel like that at the moment, but in reality, you haven't been. You're the one who will be there to put them to bed, you're the one who will be there to comfort them when they have bad dreams, or fall over and graze their knees. You'll be there to smell their hair when you read them a bedtime story or just sit on the sofa and have cuddles with them. Don't underrate it....

"I will probably never settle down with someone else as they won't want 4dc and my limited time to spend with them" - Please, will you stop thinking about a new relationship already? You're only just on the way out of this one. You need at least 2 years to settle your new routine with the DCs, settle your heart and also your mind. Don't bother about men for a while. You are ONLY 25. Use this time on your own to get your head straight. Take the kids to the library, borrow some books for them and borrow some self-help books for you. Your self-esteem needs building up again. The BEST person to do that is YOU. Don't feel that you can only be validated by someone else. You need to be validated by you, more importantly.

I admit I haven't read the past few pages of this thread as I've been away. BUT: Keep going - you're doing really well. Stop torturing yourself by trying to get inside his head - you can't, it's a wooden block.

It feels like a competition you see, that he will see someone first and therefore is over it and better than me

I want a marriage, a true one. I'm scared I'll never get that and will be lonely forever. I don't want a relationship now; I almost want a guarantee I will get settled one day. I've only been single fir ten weeks since the age of 14. That's why it feels so very strange. I felt safe, smug almost I was married and would never have to go through dating shenanigans like you read about in cosmo. I thought it was sorted. I don't even know how dating works or when I'll know it's a long term thing. I feel like that was it, that's all god has for me.

I want to be comfy in my own skin, but I don't know how.

You've hit the nail on the head there then. You've only been single for 10 weeks since you were 14. Imho you need longer than that on your own to get a sense of self - basically in your own words, to feel comfortable in your own skin.
Obviously pride is important to you (assuming you are a Scorpio )hence the point scoring. Actually it's quite irrelevant who scores first. It really won't make any difference to your life in the long run.

Scorps, Hope you are doing ok by yourself today. I have read your thread but since baby two came along my brain seems to have turned to mush and quite often I go to write something but it seems silly so I don't post. Others always say it so much better iyswim.

You will come through this stronger and fitter to meet the person you are meant to end up happy with. However if you run scared into the arms of the first man who shows you affection you will not have had the time to nurture and rebuild yourself into the person who is ready to receive all the love you deserve.

Take your time and concentrate on learning that it is ok not to be someone's girlfriend/wife. You really can be happy by yourself with your children and friends and family around you. You need to work on that and the rest will fall into place later on.

Sorry if it sounds patronising, you are already ten times wiser than I was at 25. I think that most men would kill to call you their girlfriend/wife....but you don't want just any man, you need someone special who realises your worth but you won't get that person until you realise it yourself.

xx

btw how are you managing to get lacey to sleep so long at night Rob will only do 3 hours max and then wakes up every 2 hours from 4am till 8am...am knackered!!

Lacey is fab at sleeping. Just be very matter of fact when feeding, don't even look at them at night time. No talking or playing. Only change if you must.

Just told neighbour. She says I'm worth more.

Yes I'm a Scorpio and yes pride is important, my house/clothes/kids are always immaculate and I'm fearful I'm now on the loser pile.

I'm struggling with the fact that if I'm not someones dw or dp then I'm not worth having. Also I actually really miss sex but am not one night stand kinda girl, you can count my partners on one hand tbh. That's another reason why i feel men do t like me cos they never approach me or anything.

I hate to say this (but being an incorrigible motormouth I'm going to say it anyway), but you probably lost that particular race before you realised it was even on. Look at your OP from just over a month ago - he could have been up to ANYthing during that fortnight away, and quite possibly was, or at least was thinking about it. Hence the sudden not wanting to be married any more. It cramps a serial shagger's style.

One thing I can promise, though: you will find true love before he does, because the only person he is able to love is himself, and he has to share his skin with a hatful of demons. It's a race he can't even enter.

Annie - I was going to say something similar. If it was a race to pull them so what if you don't win? It's not what you really want.

What you want and deserve is something you're going to have long before he does (if he does at all).

You continue to amaze me. Four DC and you/house/kids are immaculate!

'then' not 'them'!

I agree annie. When he started seeing charis in feb (she's the 18 yr old) he text her asking If her parents were out and could he pop over. There is only one reason for that IMHO. He also has asked this of other women he has been dodgy with too.

See you all say that a man would be pleased to have me but he obviously wasn't.

I think unlikelyamazonian was right when she said that some men from unstable backgrounds deliberately seek out women from stable backgrounds..........then what happens is they basically fuck it up. That's what dysfunctional people do. They're only used to instability so when something becomes good and stable, they pull the rug from under their feet and voila - everything is fucked up. Just the way they like it. Ok maybe like is not the right word......but this is what makes them feel comfortable. It's familiar iyswim. So when you question why you weren't good enough for him, you're approaching this from the wrong angle. You were good enough...........actually you were too good.

Spot on LL, that really makes sense. As much as anything can make sense when it's about what's going on in a fucked up headspace. We persist in trying to see things from the point of view of a rational person, while some people just have a different frame of reference. That would explain his apparent agony over the marriage breaking up even though he was the one who was breaking it; saying he'd "lost" his best friend even though all he had to do was NOT walk out.

Scorps, he was pleased to have you, he just wasn't pleased for you to have him. Some people value being free (to make their own mistakes) more than a happy home life. Like Lee Marvin in Paint Your Wagon. Things got too comfy, he had to move on. Where to? It didn't matter. All that mattered was he was moving.

Ok that all makes sense.

It feels strange not talking to him, but he's not that person and actually hasn't been for a while.

I really want to feel better just all this shit comes in my head every day.

I so want to actually know he will do it again, that it wasn't me, that I will be ok and eventually settle again. I've been propelled into a life I know nothing of. I any even see him ffs andthat feels pathethic to me.

I feel like he doesn't care what he's done to the five of us, like it's oh well move on done for him. It isn't for me.

Dad says I'm stronger, have made proggress but it feels so shitty and small compared to his. He pobably loves it and is pleased. He can go out etc; I havet been out much at all. I have to get dc and do it all myself tonight and that feels like a massive hurdle. I feel like I need company all day.

I have a mantra to say now: kids family friends

if I just focus on these 3 things the rest will follow, surely? And I surely won't be alone forever as I'm still young, will have time to get out and about and meet people, that's how it goes isn't it. I am going to try to ignore him in my mind. I pretty much coped alone anyway, at least this way I am without daily mental stress from him.

He will have gfs yes; but for one thing Only and he will in all likelihood repeat this.

Comfy in my own skin.

Not so bad this morning. Spoke to a friend last night who told me more things about him from before we got together - all bad, untrustworthy etc. Sleeping with peoples gfs, and an incident with another girl when we were together (VS, remember T? I was right)

supermarket today, down mums then a friend an wine tonight

friends family kids

scorps, you will look back on this thread one day and wonder why you ever gave him this much head space. You will have a lovely life, you are just in a valley at the moment and can't see the view yet.

I also think come spring you will be in a better place...I am holding out for better weather myself as being stuck with a 2yr old and baby is no fun when you can't just go for a nice walk in the sunshine.

Hope you have a good day today xx.

Scorps - have not posted lately, but have lurked

Have had swine flu

But just want to say how much stronger you are sounding from just a few wks ago.

You rock girl!!!

My dad has rang. Ks ex rang him today an has basically told him she isn't having their son anymore and k is now his FT parent. Z is 8.

I feel so full o emotion about it, I should be there.

K rang my dad asking for help, saying he can't cope with anymore.

How will he work, see my kids, pay for them?

Poor poor Z.

poor Z. The cheek ok K phoning your Dad for help though - he'll just have to knuckle down and be a FT parent. Lots of mum's (and some dads) work FT and are lone parents - at least Z is 8 so at school.