Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

[Scorps]

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

scorps you dont have to go yet do you? i am starting to wince whhen you say he asks after how you are - how very dare he? [grrrrr]

It is open ended here but I'm increasingly feeling more able to live at home and anyway I have to face it sometime, lacey is 8 days today.

When he asks how I am etc it's weird. Is it cos I've had his baby or for me? Why does he keep crying?

Just why, really to the whole fucking thing

mum is checking with dad if h is allowed in the house. If so, I will hide out downstairs and e will be 2 floors up with lacey and mum will bring lacey to me after and I won't even see him.

I'm such a wimp.

Scorps, I'd definitely keep out of his way, for your sanity. You don't need to see him with Lacey and imagine how things could have been. He needs to realise the impact of the mess he's made, for himself.

Ime it's much easier to keep moving forwards when you don't have to see them, especially in the early days. Whatever it takes for you at the moment. Good luck with it.

Don't feel I'm ever going to be ok I hurt so much why can't someone stop it? Why wasn't I good enough? I miss him I don't wanna gonhome

Scorps, what happened to the NHS counsellor? Can you see him/her? I want to beg you to forget about your h, but realise it's not that easy.

You keep wondering whether he cares because of you / just Lacey / dc, but really, it doesn't matter. I think he is incapable of loving and really caring for anyone other than himself.

I hope you don't have to see him. Don't speak to him on FB or your phone. You are not there for his entertainment, and it just upsets you more.

Hope you get to speak to a counsellor (sp?) soon.

He is coming at 7 to see her and bath her. Mum is going to give lacey to him and get her back after. I will be downstairs where I can't even see him.

I can't see a way out of this. I don't know how I'll ever be happy without him.

The thing, Scorps, (and please take this in the way intended, you know how much I care about you) - you weren't actually as happy with him as you think you were. He is your first proper REAL love. I don't think you've ever really experienced proper happiness in a marriage, the way a marriage can and should be. The deep, warm, settled type of love. I know you offered it, and you felt it from your side, but I don't think you've ever experienced it in a marriage, i.e. from both sides, together. A marriage can be so much more than what you've ever known or experienced. Knowing someone loves you with their whole heart, respects you, sees you as an equal. You can have all that with someone else. Later. Not today or tomorrow, but you will, if that is what you want from life.

You said "I don't know how I'll ever be happy without him." Well, I don't know how you'll ever be happy with him. And this was before his latest shenanigans.

The way out is where you are now. A day at a time. Just keep following the journey you're currently on, it will lead to happiness eventually. It really will.

How did the visit go?

Well my dad weNt up to talk to him and then I did. He is very sure he wants to leave, ecause it's us that is wrong, not me. He doesn't see a way through it all - I kinda agree I can't live life feeling how I do when I'm aroud him.

He says he does miss me, wonders about it all etc but knows we will be better apart for both our sakes. He says he cares about me very much; but feels if we got back together it would be for a routine, the used to it thing and I'm inclined to agree.

I told him how cross I am about beingnleft with all the kids etc but I get the impression he is planning on being about alot. He says when he's not with dc he wants to work to get a flat - he says he can't picture sex with anyone as he has to seperate sex and making love before he an manage that.

I feel this will be very hard somedays but there is no more wondering now.

He says of course I will settle again - itfeels impossible to me right now though. I really feel longterm we wouldn't have been right but shortterm it was ok iyswim. He would have hurt me more - he doesn't deny it.

I will be ok, won't I? I will have a life, marriage one day? A true proper love?

Yes Scorps you will be happy again with someone who will love you and your DC's unconditionally.

I honestly cannot believe all this shit coming form DH's mouth. He is an utterly selfish twat who doesn't deserve your love.

Head up and move onyou have the help and support of your friends and lovely family. You deserveand will get--better than him

doha i agree
scorps of course you will and ime and i am much older than you (!) it is YOU who will end up happy and secure and he who will regret this split...

he acts like a school boy who wants cake in hand and to scoff it...

dont worry about the sex bit - you will have lovers and you will have great lovers... try not to do the visualising bit - if the thoughts come in turn them round to yourself with gorgeous new lovers

h should not be talking of such stuff - how dare he??

stay calm and look upwards and outwards x

Agree with those below. This man is enjoying torturing you. How bloody dare he even mention the idea of sex in any way shape or form and with anyone at this stage?? Good god. Who did he actually say this to? Did he say it to your father's face? I doubt it.

And as for talking about going back to 'the old routine.' Words fail me. Good luck to him in his search for a woman who pole-dances for him while simultaneously putting the bins out and cleaning the toilet rims.

Scorps you will b feeling horrendous right now but listen to us all, we promise you will heal and get over this twerp. You have your children to give you love and laughter every day of your life. You will regain your self-esteem and your self-love and be free from his brain-twisting nonsense - free to give your woman's ability to love truly, to a man who deserves it.

Just keep going. Let your wounds weep for now as nothing much will be able to be other than a sticking plaster for a little while. But do these things, please, for your lo: eat as well as you can and drink lots so you can keep BF.

Just do these two things for now. This doesn't sound like it ever was much of a marriage. God help his next poor victim.

You meanwhile will flourish eventually. Honestly. Start getting angry. Angry at this deserting, manipulative, ridiculous, cheating shit of a bloke.

Out of interest, is his background shoddy? Men like these enjoy finding stable women from peaceful backgrounds and nice parents and then fucking them up royally. It gives them a sadistic kick because they have such a bloody chip on their shoulders.

You re doing brilliantly to keep getting support and help. Feel the love on here and from your family. Give your love now to your dcs.

agree with misselaenous, was going to say the same, you can't imagine being happy without him, but how happy were you really? things have been bad for almost a year.

you are young, you are attractive and intelligent and strong, though you may not feel it

give yourself time, it is the one thing you have one your side ! there is no rush to heal or get over him

I'm going to have to be more brave about this but don't know how. Sometimes I actually physicAlly feel it.

I'm so scared of life. I'm scared I'll always always want him. I'm scared that there is no more love for me.

I wish I knew the outcome to this - if I could see a year or two ahead how ok I will be. I know some things were bad with us but at least we did hv each other, kids had 2 parents in the house, there werecuddles and fun things.

Help me man up ?

He comes from a home in which his dad left for ow alot. All his other gfs have been v shirt term flings apart from 3 years with a girl who had a terrible life . He slept with more than 20 women in their time. My background could be described as priveliged, warm, safe, cocooned, loyal. My parents have a 30 year faithful marriage.

I think it was me who said about sex that I was worried I would never do it again or that men would fancy me. He said of course they will. It's very hard to get away from him in my brain still.

You haven't had time to get over him. It's all still relatively new and even he hasn't settled to say what he wants, apart from out. You would have been better not to have talked to him, really. You aren't getting a chance to get over him. He does seem to value your good opinion, but not enough to actually knuckle down and behave himself. Maybe he just doesn't like not to be liked; maybe he's keeping his options open in case he needs your home for a bolt-hole when real life catches up with him.

You do realise what he said about not managing to have sex with anyone else is a bare-faced lie, don't you?

Re looking ahead: remember that quite a few of the posters here are older than you (I am actually a whole 2X your age), we've been there ourselves or been there for friends who have gone through similar. So although we don't have a crystal ball, we have plenty of experience of sweet, loyal, loving women who DO find love again. Hey, what about your own father? You say his first marriage broke down (following a miscarriage, spookily). That freed him to find your mother, and they've been a rock solid couple for 30 years. THIS is what you can hope for. One day you will be as wise as your own mother, helping your DCs through their problems as she helps you, with the benefit of experience (including the bad stuff). And if there is any justice in this world, you will have as good a man as your father supporting you.

I think that's why it's been such a shock to you. You have experience of settled relationships so you expected that that's how it always works. It doesn't, unfortunately. That's not your fault.

Scorps I don't think you should expose your vulnerability to him. Keep these thoughts to yourself or air them on here/to friends. Of course you will have sex again in the future........that fear is just a knee jerk paranoia because of the state you're in right now. I think when you're feeling rejected it's natural to think about when/if you will have another partner - I felt the same directly after my h's betrayal. However, now is not the time to think of such things. Unlikelyamazonian is right - concentrate on your relationship with your dc and on nourishment and sleep. These are the important things right now. A partner will be there in the future - and hopefully when you are at peace with yourself as that gives the relationship the best chance of success.

reagrldess of whether thing swere still ok or not with H, a week post partum, would not een be considering sex anyway

you have to remember yo have just had a baby

your horones are still all over the place

just concentrate on you and the children, take the hlep you can get and let him stew.

he has no idea how to have a succesful relationship, and he does not seem to want to learn. he is repeating the behaviours modelled to him and needs to grow a pair and take responsibility for his actions.

you deserive someoen who can keep it in his pants

you arwe good enough to hae his children, but not good enough for him to faiftfugl to or put some work into the relationship?

pffffffffffffffffffft, he can fuck right off!

Of course it is hard to get away from him in your brain my love. You are still married to him, you have a newborn by him. You still love him. The pain is raw and there is nothing much you can do about these things for now except continue to get through each hour, each day at a time.

Time will happen between today and next year. Mr Time takes forever to pass when you are in pain, but when you are having a wonderful time on a fair ride say, time passes in a flash. All part of the way humans recover and mend. We need to feel the pain to get beyond it. Yuk and horrible though it is.

Someone said a very true thing to me when I was going through my terrible dark days and wondered if I would ever, ever get over my ex h or find or feel love again: it was this..

Love takes nurturing. Love needs to be returned in order to flourish. Without nurturing and being returned, love slowly dies like a flower without the warmth of the sun bearing down on it.

Your H is not showing you love. Your H is not returning your love. He is killing your love though you may not realise that this early on.

Your love for him will eventually die. Your pain will finish because the love you feel for him now will be dead at the roots.

This will leave you able to put new roots down in healthy soil...to feel love for another man and for him to blaze his warm loving sun down on you. And even if this never, ever happens in your life (very very unlikely at your age and with your beauty inside and outside) you have the deep, rewarding and satisfying love from and for your children to look forward to.

Keep going. Keep posting. Keep feeling the pain. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. I am living testimony to that. My arse of an ex nearly killed me but I am still alive, kicking, healthy and over him as the roots of my love for him are dead. Whoopee!

This will all happen to you. Give it time and keep nurturing yourself for now with good food and lots of loving vibes from others.

Scorps don't worry whether you will find someone else to love you again. Don't think that far into the future. Concentrate on getting yourself through the here and now. I second, third, fourth (however far down the list I am) everyone else who has said to stop concentrating on what your ex is saying - he's really not helping things AT.ALL.

You're only a week out of childbirth, blimey, that's a hell of a place to be - without all this bullshit going on.

You take care of yourself, let your parents take care of you and your LO's. I think that to help you strengthen yourself against the emotional onslaughts from your ex, that you have one of your parents in the house when he comes to visit your LO. I don't mean this to sound heavy-handed, but you've got so much on your plate, that a bit of moral support when he visits, would be good.

And further into the future. You WILL find someone who will love you and your LO's. Don't rush into anything, please. Take your time and settle and accept in your head who you are without being validated by anyone else.

I think I'm another poster who's twice your age, and has lived a life and a half in my time.....

Annie I think you're right- obviously I know about divorce but I thought that would never happen to me, I have been shown that yes sometimes things are shit but you work together through it because you're married and love each other.

Dads baby died a week after birth e has something wrong with his brain. Dad used to live in a tiny cottage just out the back door of this (huge) house. He had nothing he said - now look. Mum and dad are the best team in the whole world. Dad always says he would walk bare foot across the world to me.

I keep trying to think of how my life with him would hve panned out - I'm very sure it would involve cheating, insecurity and tears. He used to make me jump 'growling' at me. He was (lost weight now) quite physically intimidating as he fight trains almost daily for Thai boxing.

He said last night we were routine - we have very small kids. He said I never liked hisbinterests - he gave example of we always found it hard to pick a film. Ffs. He said all I liked was babies. I have been pg and bf for 2.5 years now - of course I'm not going to be life and soul.

I do want to focus more on day to day than the future but tbh I'm fucking terrified of it. I want a marrige like my parents. I don't wanna be here again in my life.

I can't believe this really. I can't see what will be better for him. I am worried he will have more children accidentally - I'm worried for my dc in that not me. I'm worried I may meet someone but I have 4 dc, not 2 to sell them. I feel a huge need for a cuddle from him.

he surely made those children with you? so he has to suck up the fact that life becomes routine, and you are nto waiting in your skimpies for him the minute he walks through the door

he sounds like he has a very short attention span

To sum it up Scorps - he is VERY selfish. How dare he say all you think about is babies - you didn't have them on your own did you As for not liking the same films??? Wtf? He seems very childish.

Thing is lulu quite often I was

he used to work for my dad and dad said he would walk in the bak door and not even have planned how to get back out iyswim. H even said himself last night he can't see into the future. I want him to regret this.

I thought it was stupid about the films. Isn't that normal?

I actually have many interests but no time to indulge. I want to learn a new language (I speak 3 but fancy japenese next lol), I want to go back to boxing, maybe a book group. Just because i don't wanna stay out til 4am every weekend that doesn't mean I'm boring does it?! And of course I'm baby centred. I have 4, you twat. 2 in 19 months. Thank god I still have my figure though I'm already 9.2st and 5'9... But I have ebeen eating well here, 3 meals plus obligatory cake.

Scorps He's making excuses because HE'S inadequate......