Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

[Scorps]

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

"I don't feel like I have it in me to deny him the birth of his child. He has been at all his dc scans and births and I think he will always be in their lives. Mum said something that stuck in my brain - why should he see me so vulnerable, naked, my 'bits', if he is never going to love me or make love to me again?"

And

"I, in my heart, thunk I would freak with him there and won't feel 'open' enough to labour."

Scorps, you've got your answer there, about whether or not to have him at the birth. This is not your choice, this is not your decision; this whole situation is a result of what his actions. You really don't need to blame yourself as it's all his doing. Think about it from your point of view and not his. What do you have to gain from his being at the birth? Really. As far as I can see, absolutely F. all.

I have been lurking on this thread for some time

I felt whatever I said would not be helpful

I still feel what I say will not be helpful, but I've gotta say it anyway

scorps, I have read your previous threads

I have seen your photo, you are truly physically beautiful

I wonder what you see in this man

no one man is worth this pain

I have come to this conclusion on your previous threads, I feel it even more now

seriously...is this man the fucking messiah ?????

no

he is not

you, scorps will find someone equally beautiful, not next year, not maybe the next, but you will, I have no doubt

now fucking get rid of this abuser, before he destroys you

no one person is worth that, especially one who looks like an angel but is the fucking devil-incarnate

< end of sermon >

thanks, dittany

it really pained me to type that

Another book alongisde dittany's suggestion is The Script, not sure who it is by, but a dear friend recently went through a very painful seperation and said this bok meant a lot.

I don't know what else to say to you sweetheart, I hate him for what he has done to you, really hate him, and am desperate for you to hate him too.

He's an abusive, controlling, manipulative adulterer.

And you know what, I KNOW you are going to type any moment 'it's not about age, he did it with an older woman too' but I think the naivety that the younger girls brings has a real point.

Do NOT let him be with you when you birth. He gave away that right!!! You need to be comfortable and happy so your first look at her does not have his miserable 'ohhh, what about me, where has my attention gone' (wasn't he like that when mimi was born?) face in the background, but people who lvoe and care about you who are just as ecstatic as you can (and deserve) to be

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thankyou anyfucker I do need a talking to I think I will print your post out!

Dittany I was 16 when I first got pg, 17 when I had him. Then 19, then 22 and I was 25 last month.

He actually sai about the 18 year old - I could pick her up and put down as I wanted her.

He actually last night said what's it to me where he went. I then told him to fuck off out and he stayed in. Twat.

Gonna stay at mums tonight I think. He was talking about the birth last night, assuming he's there .

I have read all posts thankyou hopefully I will get on laptop later and answer better

Scorps

Morning sweetheart. Sending strength your way.

Dittany and Anyfucker are bang on.

Not only are you beautiful though, what a lot ofpeoplemigth mis is that youa arealso very clever and close tosucceeding in training as a SWIIRC. You do nto need this man for a future, but he completely can deny you one.

I am going to be straight here (seeing as everyone else is LOL). I've'known' you on MN for a long time now,since we first got pg with our April babaies so what-2.5 years.It's been very obvious that he controls you and that he has you thinking you need him. You don't.

I completely understansd why you don't wish to go to your aprents tbh,I wouldn't either, much as I love them. The only trick then is to get him out of your home.

you need to make a firmdecision about the delivery at this point you know, it may seem time away but remember what happened to me sat there swearing I asn't in labour until 25 mnutes before he arrived LOL.I would advise putting an open caveat on the wholething with the MW: he'snto to be in there yunles you specifically ask for him. Asfor whether it upsets him he can fuck off, he caused all this.

And asfopr the liking he has foprteenage girls- imagine another bloke you don'tlove or fancy thesame targetting your DD. you'd make her run a mile and quite possibly go after him.

Remember you will be setting an example to all of them with this: and your survival and eventual gain of areally happy life will be the best loesson they have. Settle for nobody, especially abusive mind game teenage preying twats.

Sorry, i'vewanted top say that for years but always thought that if I did you'd refuse to 'talk'tome again- you got upset when I did post something negative once. But in the full knowledge that you might change your mind and get things sorted, I think it is worth saying.

It is a shame youa refaraway or you could have brought all the children here to be waited on for a while.

scorps - how are you doing today? Have you gone overdue with your other DC?

There is so much wonderful advice on this thread I cannot add to it but only agree with it.

I agree he has lost the right to be at the birth, this is about YOU and the baby, you need to be in the right frame of mind to give birth, it's a very emotional and vunerable time. He can care for his other children.

I know what you mean about being scared and vunerable, I only have my DP really if he were to walk out tomorrow I would be on my own with 4 DC but you know what however sad I was about him I would not allow him to break me, I would be there for my DC and think well sod him he is going to miss out on family life and our children his loss.

However, said cake and eating it are right, he wants his children and you too but not all the day to day hard stuff, the mundane stuff, having to be home every night, being a coparent with you, he wants to dip in and out as he pleases whilst being able to come nad go as he pleases not answering to anyone, shagging and flirting with who he wants and not feeling guilty. What a great life from his point of view and at the same time trampling over you.

I know it's so hard honey you have given him your everything and part of you still wants him, that's natural you cannot turn your feelings for someone off like a tap, you are not unlovable or unworthy.

It's not you, it's him, you could be anyone the most beautiful and loveliest woman in the world and he would still be doing this to you. And to do it to a woman who is 40+ weeks pregnant just proves how much of a scumbag he is.

One day he will hopefully realise what he has lost but that day you will have rebuilt your life with your lovely children and met someone who really appreciates your love.

You are a pretty woman I have seen your pics too he's a mug to be losing you.

If we're into sermonising, here is my early-morning Sunday ramble, for what it's worth. Feel free to ignore.

The thing about love is that it's something inside you, part of the sort of person you are. You don't always choose the best object for it and it's bloody hard to just pull away when it feels like you're pulling your skin off with the plaster. Yes, it hurts to disengage. But at the end of it, you still have love inside you and will still be capable of giving it again, hopefully where it is more deserved. It is really only worth giving love where it is reciprocated. That's the wonderful thing about children (and dogs!) - you love them as they love you, unconditionally. You don't stop loving one child once the next one is born; nor do you stop loving your parents because you now have children. Time and energy may be finite, love is elastic. It can stretch to cover everyone you care about.

From a utilitarian point of view, love is a good survival characteristic. It holds families and communities together. As a loving, caring person, of course you don't just drop somebody when they cause you pain. But when one partner loves the other, but the second partner loves only themselves, it is bad love and bad survival. They're stretching the elastic all out of shape, pulling too much to themselves, trying to drag it off the other members of your family/community. Love is not doing them or you any good in such a situation. You need to let go and realise that you are not a bad person for letting go. There are others who need you, and they need you in good emotional condition so that you may care for them as you should. Eventually you will find love again for yourself because you are still capable of giving love, and no-one can take that away because it's who you are. Anyone worth having will understand this about you, will value it properly and will reciprocate with all his heart.

You deserve a proper marriage of two people, whereas your current one has only ever had one-and-a-bit. You putting in an extra three-quarters to make up for his lack of involvement can only go so far. No wonder you're exhausted.

He's got to go, honey. Don't be afraid. You may feel as if he's taking your heart with him, but the elastic will snap back. Just like your insides when you have a baby, they're all stretched and pulled and hurty, but they get back into shape so you can do it again (and again, and again!). There's a moment in nearly every labour where one thinks "I can't do this, I can't stand it, this baby is NEVER coming out" - which is just before that wonderful moment when suddenly it does. You're left knackered and battered for a while, but it was all worth it, and while you're all absorbed in the new life you hardly notice yourself getting better and stronger, until one day you realise you're fine again. Hearts are just as resilient as wombs.

Here endeth the second lesson.

Sk's right, I speak the speak but if Dh were to think about going leaving me with my four I would be petrified and broken, I like tot hink I would chuck him ut for the sake of my boys, past experience tellsme probably not (dated some incredible shockers in the past).

It must be scary.But is it more scry than having him stay put the way it is now?even if he promised well- he's done that before hasn't he?

When youa remoresettledreadthrough a few old threads, stuff about how women always like him and its OK if he flirts with them becuase he is so hot, how you're not pretty enough to have him really- it will make your eyes sting. if you'relooking for strength read through the threads from when he was last badly beahved as well ton get your resolve up.

You know,I admore you-always have done. Similarlifeto me of kids,SN, study etc..... but whilst I sit and bleat on Sn threads and let the washing pile up, you keepthe housework tidy, keep yourself looking attractive, make sure you're there physically for your DH. All at an age where I was lucky tomanage to get out of bed,let alone everything else!. I'vealways thought you're fab, too fab for this, and your potential is enormous. Your H knows this and that'swhy he is reticent about actually going, there is nobody else like you out there, but he does not deserve you.

Annie Ireadthat with the village church bells in the background LOL..... fab post

Good morning Scorp. I hope you got some sleep.

Fantastic posts last night and this morning.

Thankyou really, so much

hope you're ok, thinking about you x

Scorps, Anniegetyourgun's last paragraph is so true.

I was reading a speach by JK Rowling, and thought of you when I got to this part: "And so rock bottom became the solid foundation on which I rebuilt my life."

Also, "The knowledge that you have emerged wiser and stronger from setbacks means that you are, ever after, secure in your ability to survive. You will never truly know yourself, or the strength of your relationships, until both have been tested by adversity. Such knowledge is a true gift, for all that it is painfully won, and it has been worth more than any qualification I ever earned."

That second apragraph is so truefrommy experience:sincewe ahd our bad time years ago,i'veneverfound myself truly scared in the sameway I used to, becuase I do have faith in my ability to cope.It's a great asset, and one you will find yourself Scorps.

Hi Scorps - it's been a while since I've posted anything...actually I just popped in to see how you were getting on with DD2 as you kept me company in April 08 when our DD1s were born.

I am just outraged for you...I can't believe what the knobber is putting you through - again.

So for all my two pennorth is worth.. you have achieved so much for somebody so young, you can do so much more - without that dead weight around your neck. You are a beautiful, intelligent, strong woman ( and in my opinion he is boxing above HIS weight with you - you can do SOOOOO much better).

Anyfucker put it very eloquently - fucking get rid of this abuser, before he destroys you

Have just read the whole thread, feeling outraged and really sad for you scorps.
You are actually beautiful, you know, I was taken aback by the pic on your profile after reading how you feel about your physical appearance.

And what AF said. Please get out before he destroys you. Bastard.

Scorps,

I'm glad people are getting angry with him now, because you cant, and you need to. You have been with him since you were very young, and you're self esteem isn't what it could be. If it was, you would kick him out without a seconds thought, dust yourself down and say "Right! That's that sorted out. Now to go get a life"

You remind me of myself (I'm 39, so much older than you) I wasted so much time with selfish losers because I had zero self-respect, and no idea what made a decent, mutually respectful, loving relationship.

However I didn't have kids till I was 38, so I was only hurting myself. Please, please dont teach your kids that not only is it okay to be treated like a doormat, but also kiss it better for him when he supposedly feels bad about it!

You're a beautiful strong woman Scorps, I know you've got the strength to do this. Maybe not right now, but a change is already happening.

How dare he do this when you are so vulnerable.

thinking of you today, scorps

Thankyou

he asked when his bills came out of the bank - I said find that out yourself; are you wanting a welcome to end of marriage sort your own shit out welcome pack?

Hasn't spoken to me for ages

appear to have more money than I thought in bank, goin to clear it tomorrow morning from account. H won't notice.

He has been getting papers out of drawers possibly to get a reaction. I feel strong today.

My dad does alot with local rugby - apparently they can't all believe it, and one nice one in particular asked about me on fb.... Simple things

Scorps!!!

Well done indeed! #applauds#

Oh you see the rugby blokes- well going by the crowd i'vegot to know through the SN team, stunning blokes (personality rather than looks, that varies natch).

And besiodes we go ytoCornwallwith the rugby clu8b every other year ,maybe meet you in 2011

Seriously though you do sound strong.

You sound much better today. Keep on going Scorps, we're cheering you on