Our first Relate appointment is tomorrow, I'm scared.

[Scorps]

DH & I are at 'shit or bust' point in our marriage. He came back to the family home on Friday night after 12 days away; He says he doesn't love me anymore. We want to go to counselling and try, because at least if we do split we can say we did everything possible. It has all stemmed from when i mc in Feb i think. I got pg v quickly after, but totally withdrew into myself. Another woman paid him attention and when i was 15 weeks pg he kissed her. Since then i have been terrified and not let him out of my sight, have withdrawn love from him and affection, etc. He would say he loved me and i wouldnt even say anything back.

He is behaving oddly now - saying he doesn't love me, then when i had a 'revelation' this morning saying to him that maybe because of my self worth i should just quit now, i have alot to offer a man etc, he gets upset. We have had sex this weekend too but I'm not allowing that anymore - he can't reach out to me on the sofa, but tries to have sex. I told him today no more of that and he agreed. He said he wants his affection to be true when he does it, and i think thats best too.

He is not nasty; I'm 38+3 weeks with dc4 and he is caring for me and the dc. I have enough money, etc. He is a fantastic father and really wants to go to Relate, but isnt commiting himself to saying he wants our marriage to work.

I'm scared about the appointment, what we will have to talk about, what he will say that will just hurt me more, Relate isn't superglue .

What will happen, any advice, nice things to say to me? Feel like im living life blindfolded. Please dont think he's nasty hes not, its been such a hard year, 2009 has.

Of course you're scared sweetie, but it will be alright in the long run. You are NOT at fault, you have NOT failed. You're just a scared pregnant girl who has been treated like shit.

Let him go, he needs to get his head sorted. I don't mean to be on his side, but I think he is so confused that the only way to even remain on civil terms with him is to put some space between you. Hopefully it will be temporary.

Dittany - I just wanted to scoop him up and kiss it away, tbh. I know

he has said for hurting me all these times - I'm starting to wonder if he's do e something else and cannot say.

I know I'm pathetic. I'm feeling sorry for myself now.

I agree with Dittany. The only confusion here is him trying to figure out how to come out of this sorry situation looking and feeling like a good guy. He needs to grow a pair and take responsibility.

I hope my bluntness is not upsetting you Scorps. Just that I've seen this type of guy before (yes he's a type) and they're a dime a dozen.

Agree with dittany - I think he knows exactly what he wants, and pretends to want help (Relate) / sympathy etc. I think the doctor was right in the depression diagnosis, sorry.

If this was out of character, fine, I'd go for the nervous breakdown at thought of all this responsibility line. Still would be rubbish, but at least something that could be dealt with and gotten over.

However, he has a history of being selfish, of cheating, of getting everything he wants when he wants it.

This is him wanting to be single again, irrespective of the children and wife he's destroying in the process (well, would have been, was it not for the fact that you're such a good mother anyway and will therefore survive for their sakes).

You're feeling sorry for yourself - of course you should, you're in a very rubbish situation at the moment, you'd be a terribly terribly hard woman if this didn't shock you to the bone, made you question everything you believe in.

All I'm saying is in time you'll see he's not worth it. For now, you can't help what you feel, and that is right and human.

His timing really really really could have been better, but in a way, this is good, as you want to grow old with someone that makes you grow as a person, not keep you down until you start questioning yourself at a time when it's so blatantly obvious you're bending over backwards trying to keep others happy.

Maybe, just a small maybe, he'd realise in a couple of months what a complete idiot he has been these last couple of months, and he'd get the shock of his life when he sees you strong and happy again, and then maybe it would shock him into growing up, and with a therapist's help he might become a nicer person. It would however take that to wake him up, so even if you want him back, the best way is actually to forget about him.

Why would he want to be single? How is that better than 4dc, a wife? He is never short of offers though

thankyou all I'm Reading if not saying much

I just think he sounds like one of these people that never want to grow up. They want to be 50 years old but act 20 with no responsibilities. This is why I think it makes no difference what you did / didn't do - I think he wants to have it all without having to be responsible, if that makes any sense. Him sulking and feeling sorry for himself and wanting sympathy from even you ( ) fits.

It sounds to me like he wants his 4 dc and wife but doesn't want the responsibility of it all iyswim. So if he could in some way be single but still have you that would be perfect for him.

And if I'm right, this is the snag with people like that - they want children, a family house etc etc, but then when they have, they don't want to deal with it. And it's not only whether or not you would allow him to do whatever he wants (because you've done that anyway really - think when he went away for his pleasure earlier in the year whilst you had to cope with the children etc) - I think he also don't want to have to worry about the family he is neglecting in his favour or feel guilt (because even HE must know, deep down, that that is wrong).

So I think he wants to be single because then it's all right to act like this (repeat: only in his head!) I think he expected the leave you and the children, be free to do whatever he fancies, see whoever he fancies, but have access to sex and "a family" whenever he felt the need. And I think this is why is seems to be confused with you not being all lovey-lovey.

Keep on talking, we're here to support you through this, no matter what the outcome is in the long run. For now keep trying your best to focus on yourself.....time will tell if something, somewhere in his brain clicks and he starts behaving like a committed man and if at that time you will be able to forgive and move past this.

You're not pathetic, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You love your DH, so of course no one can expect you to just accept this without sadness, fear, shock and wanting to understand what's happened. Cry, shout, scream, ask questions just let it all out. It's all just so fresh.

Sorry for the atrocious spelling and grammar there - he makes me so cross I can't concentrate!

Scorps, Just read through this. What a huge thing you are going through, and what huge responsibility you have on our shoulders with such a selfish and immature partner. I am truly shocked at his treatment of you and the way he shirks his responsibilities. You should be really relaxed in this stage of PG, my heart goes out to you.

My only advice to to take care of your DC and YOU as first priority. Forget him, he is so immature and selfish it is unreal and in time you will find someone better. You have family support that is fantastic.

I am thinking of you and praying for you and your DC. Good luck x

Sal is right I think

He reminds me (well the wholething does) of my oldmate and her fiance. there were no kids but they came into it alter.

After about 6 yeras together they were really, really in a terrible palce. He wanted out, she wanted out, both had other partners lined up but becuase not one waswilling to be the bad guy it took a further 18 months of hell to break down before she stepped up and did it. They both spent ridiculous amounts of time trying to goad the other into ending it. I think he is hoping you will chuck him out becuase then he'snot the one who walked.I'd quite like you tio chuck him out as well, but for an entirely different reason- becuase I think you are far better than him.

A lot of that was about responsibility and liking the idea more than the reality of it; she learned and has never married and won't have kids (has a partner with a vasectomy), he OTOH amrried, had kids.... then did exactly the same thing. Knowing him he has in alllikelihood been doing that on repeat ever since. I don't know.

I'd be surprised if he hadn't done somthing else, tbh: he elarned that life can be without immediate consequences.

It is a terrible time to have done this, I'decho that:OTOH in a fewmonths when you start to emerge from allthis (and next Christmas the world will seem so much better) that will be a bonus: it'sfareasier to get over an ex you can loathe, IME. Pantomime baddie ex'sare a plus. The quite nice ones that just weren't right are the ones its hard to move on from.

He might not be short of foffers, but you know,peoplegive out available or unavilable vibes.... unavilable peopledon't often get offers even if they are perfect.

I wish I was a bit closer so i could give you a big hug, I really do (oralternatively that I was with my Mum at her localpark near the canal and just happened to be amking rude comments about friends partners very loudly indeed- how paranoid would that make a person? ), but I feelconfident that in a year you be so much better off.And that one day you will think its all been for the best becuase you have the love of someone who actually ahs the sense to realise how fabulous you are.

How did I get it so wrong then? If he has always been this way why haven't I noticed? How can one person be like that, marry, have so many dc (all ours were planned)? How am I so stupid? Why can't I have the one man on this planet I want?

I did do things wrong - I constantly checked his phone, fb, whereabouts. After he cheated, but still I dd it. I said I would forgive him and I didn't. He doesn't love ne anymore because of that.

Everyone in rl says the same as all of you too. I can't belive someone I love is really that person.

Dittany what do you mean being and acting confused are different? Do you think he is sure he wants to go? What is all the hugs, care, sex things about? He has stood in the shower with me washing me because I was too broken. He dressed me. Surely that's care?

Everything I'm reading seems right to me, remember, peachy, sal and myself have been there for the last two years of his shite.

How many times have you been in pieces because he has done WHAT HE WANTED with no thought to the consequences? How many times has there been some form of indiscretion?

You know what I think, I've told you many a time, but I really do believe he doesn't know what love is, and I doubt he ever really lvoed you. He respected you in that you are someone to be respected, maybe he was 'in awe' with you would be a better way to put it. He doesn't understand 'family' the way you do and there is only so long you can spend trying to show him.

I think Sal is right, and until he doesn't have you, OR the OPTION to have you, he won't get it. I bet even if he leaves he keeps you hanging on a thread, calling when drunk, wanting to do 'family things', turning up to 'see the kids' but after they are in bed etc whilst all along going out, having fun, enjoying being singel and shagging anything that pays him the slightest bit of attention for his oversized ego. He's just like my xp except his control doesn't get physical and thankfully I didn't love XP.

Why do you love him still, Steph? What admirable qualities does he have? Really? I think you love the man he pretended to be not the prick that is sharing your bed.

I think Dittany means (well I took her to mean) that he is not confused about moving out, but is acting confused in order that you feel sorry for him - "poor love, he's so confused!"

Nice things like washing you are one or more of the following, probably a combination of all three:

• guilt (well I'd better help her as the state she is in is my fault)
• being a nice person (few people are 100% bad)
• trying to make you think he is a nice guy

I am so sorry to read all that you are having to cope with Scorps.

Wish I could kick his sorry arse for you.

"He doesn't love ne anymore because of that."

Stop doing this, you KNOW this is nonsense.

Come on Scorp, stop making excuses for him, you're not helping yourself by doing this. I care for you and don't want to poke a fresh wound, but you ignoring this is NOT going to make this better. This is about HIM being selfish, weak and irresponsible.

Yes, I do think he is sure he wants to go. But he is too much of a wanker coward to do it without you kicking him out / Relate giving him the go-ahead.

Just read VS's post. Oh hell, I've forgotten about boyfriends like that... He will most definitely do that, and then get pissy when you start seeing someone else. I've been there, a lifetime ago. Look ahead, you need to get out of this mess. He is no good. He really is not.

By the way, don't worry about walking away from him whilst you still love him. I did once, it broke my heart, it broke my heart seeing him with someone else, even ages later. I pretended I didn't care, but I hated it, cried my eyes out. I switched off the phone. And eventually, I got over it. And now, I'm thinking "thank heavens! What the hell was I thinking, I could have been sat at home tonight, wondering where my boyfriend/dh is, I could have been lonely". Instead, I am grateful and happy and proud and content. This is something you can only experience on your own or with a good man.

Dittany - twenty women, not times. He took his exs engagement ring from some woman he shagged on a bench. His ex rang to say she was pg - he was in bed with her friend. She once taunted him that her friends didt like him - he slept with them. He has slept with a friends mother. He used to tell her he was working - he went off with women. He caught gonnarheoa. He once made her so scared she rang her friend just incase he did something to her in the night.

But I loved him. I don't know how to live without him. My parents think he shouldn't even be at the birth.

Things he has done to me- or in our relationship

attended DV workshops
pushed me about
cheated - I include texts in that. I know of 4 times
done things despite me actually begging him not to
Spent the rent money once
lies alot
asked if he can 'see' a man
been away alot sometimes when I'm desperate at home
left me poorly with dc
wanted to go to Jamaica - we were £100 short. Sulked.
Never does school things
flirted with my sister on fb
gone out all night - uncontqctable

But most of all, I hate him for ttc with me whilst doing all that with an 18 yr old.

Scorp, I am so sorry if that came across a bit strong. I'm not ignoring what you say - yes, of course it wasn't ideal that you checked his every move after he cheated. Of course not, but there was him back to "normal" the week after, doing the compulsory cry and "i'm so sorry" yadayadayada - and from the outside, it didn't seem like he was sorry at all. It looked like he was sorry that he was caught, and then felt extremely sorry for poor old little him. And he expected YOU to comfort him and make it all better.

Just read your post, Scorps. You will live fine without him. I promise you that. Just give it time. Promise me you'll live day by day. Baby steps.

Tell you what - make a list (like the one above) of everything he's done to you and that you don't like about him. Read it, every time you forget.

HE IS NO GOOD FOR YOU. You deserve so much more.