Does anyone remember my threads from early in the year? Well...

[YouKnowNothingoftheKABOOM]

I could do with a bit of advice.

Again.

The short version goes like this:-

DH depressed for 2 years. Became emotionally abusive last year while I was pregnant with dc3. Everything was my fault he would scream at me, headbutt walls next to me, blame me for ruining his life. And so on and on.

I finally had enough and with an awful lot of support from MN asked him to leave - for the sake of my mental health and the children.

He changed his medication, changed therapist and moved back in just before dc3 was born. I told him that if he shouted or scared me once more he was gone. And he never has.

Over the Summer things were shaky and I spent a lot of time away with the children. DH started CBT which had dramatic, positive results. When September came and I was home again he was like a different man.

It was like my old DH had come home and we were a team again. Things were really good. We started dating when we could get a babysitter, and he started doing nice little things for me, and actually thinking about what I want instead of just his needs.

So here is the last bit. In the last couple of weeks he has been slipping again. I've caught him out in some small and pointless lies, he seems weighed down and very low. He admits that he is struggling.

And I can't go through the last year again. It was unbearable. I can't begin to describe how I felt, all the pressure of keeping things normal - I thought my head would pop.

He knows that I will leave him if he steps over the line. I know that he needs my help. He wants to talk about things - which is great and productive and necessary. But I don't want to. The suggestion that he is slipping makes me feel so angry with him.

How dare he let himself go back to that place after everything I did for him and everything he did to me?!

But that's not helpful.

So here is the question:-

How can I help him when his illness makes me feel so hurt?

How can I help him when I am aware that he used my help in the past as a rod to beat me?

How can I listen to him when I feel so angry about having to do this again?

Ok, that was more than one question, but you see where I'm going - the main one really is how can I help him and protect me?

I don't want to be flamed for this. I'd have put this in AIBU if I did.

I don't want judgement for staying with this man either. I believe this could work (and even if I'm wrong I still have to try).

I read through the previous threads I started and I don't recognise him or me in them anymore.

Could someone wave a magic wand please and just make this all better?

TIA

Hi Nifty, it has passed, I'm ok.

He was very good. Acknowledged where he was going wrong and we talked about things he could do to improve. He also admitted some very strong urges to selfharm - which I know he struggles to admit to - so that was good to be able to support him there.

We decided to see how the therapy goes over the next couple of weeks and discuss his lack of personal responisibility with his therapist.

We discussed the mistake-apology-forgiveness-samemistake pattern that he has. And how I was going to break the cycle and force him to take responsibility by withholding forgiveness until behaviour is improved. He got a bit panicky (as he usually gets stuck in saying sorry over and over and can't move on until I forgive him, or do anything at all) but I said I would still be there for him to help him move forwards, I just would be waiting for evidence that he was sorry rather than just the words.

There was lots of other stuff. All productive. So that's good.

Just think I needed a moment to collapse after the intensity of it all.

Much better today, honestly

How are you?

Glad you feel better today

It sounds positive with your DH
He knows what he has to do and what he can do so sounds like its going in the right direction
Its good that he is being honest and talking to you

youknow how are you?

Things are much better here, Nifty.

GP upped DH's medication a couple of weeks ago and it has made an incredible difference to his mood.

He is back to normal him, and we will be more vigilant for dips from now on.

How are you? Have there been any changes? I feel like you are in the same state I was this time last year. A constant feeling of "I'll just wait until... after Christmas/after valentine's day/after birthday/after Easter/after whatever comes next... and then we'll see where we are, I owe him that much"

IT's horrible feeling as though your life is on hold. It mustn't be allowed to last forever.

Hope things have improved for you.

Glad things are going well youknow
Have been thinking how you were doing

things are the same here and will be till the new year I think

H went to the "head" doc again last night
He seems to feel better from going and talking things through
But yet again her comments about me wound me up
I told h I wanted answers to how it got to this mess by the end of the year he mentioned this to his doc and she said
"your wife obviously did`nt listen when I told her the answer"..........WTF
She also wanted to know was I still angry and screamimg and shouting at H............WTF
Yes I am still angry but I do not scream and shout

We are looking into marriage councilling (sp) for the beginning of next year
AS this has to be sorted one way or another

KEEP in touch
I just wanted to know how you were thats all

You keep in touch too.

Your H sounds sooo much like mine when he got really bad. He exaggerated things to his counsellor, she was completely convinced that the problem was in my perception of his actions and not in the fact that he was scaring me and the DCs She did much more damage than good because he manipulated her into making him feel better about emotionally abusing his family.

This time round he started his therapy explaining fully what he did last time and asking her to never place any responsibility for his feelings/behaviours at my door. That worried me in itself as it comes across as a man trying to protect his wife above all else (which is what his last counsellor believed), but she seems a sensible sort and is far more interested in finding solutions and taking responsibility than finding an external thing to blame.

So if he feels bad they look at what he is doing to make himself feel bad. This time they have also minimised the "talking therapy" since that seems to just provide him with excuses to feel bad and make the world suffer.

And so far the therapy seems to be helping him realise that the problem is in him. For example a couple of weeks ago he was given the task of only apologising once if he did something (like breaking a cup, so anything small), previously he would apologise for days, collapse into a spiral of "I can't do anything right", sulk, do nothing, and then when he felt I had forgiven him enough (whatever that is), he would find something else to be sorry for.

He put a lot of effort into only saying sorry and then doing something practical (like cleaning up the broken cup or buying a new one to replace it for example). At the end of the week he said that I must have felt that he wasn't really sorry for anything because he hadn't said it much.

He was very shocked to hear that I had found him more genuinely sorry for things than normal, since rather than panic about things he just got on with life.

It may seem small, but little things like this are helping him see that it's all within his control.

I worry about your H getting talking therapy. It all sounds so familiar. And she sounds like she is convinced she is helping him when actually she is just reinforcing his problems.

Have you looked into CBT at all?

Right, that's enough talking about them (sorry, that was a lot of talking about them)

How are you in yourself? Do you have a good support network around you? Do your friends and family know what is going on? I wouldn't listen to what he passes on from his counsellor. I know that even when he thought he was being accurate my H would change the meanings of things to suit him.

I really do recommend seeing your GP, this book I bought talks about how living with someone with depression often means you get all of the symptoms without the actual illness. Never forget that you are well.

You are entitled to feel angry. He has treated you terribly for years. I'm angry on your behalf. And still even now, everything is about him and how he feels and how to make him better. But YOU are a person too and you deserve to feel better, you have a right to feel what you are feeling. His feelings are not more valid than yours because he is ill.

Don't be afraid to change things.

And keep posting

Oh God, that was far too long!

Sorry Nifty

Youknow everything sounds so much better for you with your Dh
He sounds like he is trying saying sorry only once and you feel better and in control more

I dont get my H He isnt like your Dh as in always saying sorry over a cup or anything
He is taking the blame for the mess we are in saying he understands and knows it is him

BUT how can he have depression all this time and be a shit for 7 years have depression and be "lovely" for the last 14 weeks YET still has depression ????

I question if he has or not !!!

He keeps giving me a kiss and wanting to cuddle me even though i have asked him not to (many times)
THEN I feel a bitch as I turn away or move my arm etc etc
He bought me flowers at the weekend
I said thankyou (but deep down I wanted to chuck them back at him ..........)
I put them in a vase and on the table
but then he then said he did`nt like my reaction ...
He said last night that was the first time he felt he could put his "help" into pratice by talking about it to me at the time " I am not happy with the way you reacted to the flowers"
I said sorry they were lovely and thankyou (AGAIN)

He can`t do enough for me at the moment
I sound spoilt I know
BUT it feels tooo little to late
and "why are you doing this NOW"
He has destroyed everything and now is trying to fix a shipwrek

Hopefully we can get to marriage councilling and sort it all out ....one way or another

Already decided 2010 is the a new start which ever way that is

Sorry rambling on again

Just wanted to know how you were thats all

I love being in seprate bedrooms
I know he is trying and probarly wont return to that man from before BUT I cant forgive and forget and I actually don`t know if i want to .......THATS where I am in my head

Separate bedrooms is heaven when needed. I spent so long fearing sleeping alone, and then so long loving the time I had to myself.

Ok, now here is my problem with your post:-

You weren't happy about the flowers since they are not a REAL thank you. You were polite but cold about it. He then told you that he felt unhappy with your reaction, so yyou repeated your polite thanks with a bit more passion...

Now can you tell me why YOU were not allowed to tell him how the flowers made YOU feel?

It's great that he was able to express his feelings, but what about yours?

The correct response in all of this was, "Nifty, I suspect you aren't happy about the flowers, this makes me feel sad. Can you explain to me YOUR feelings and what me giving you flowers made YOU feel?"

Where are your feelings in all of this Nifty?

And just so you know I BANNED my DH from buying me flowers as he started doing it all the time, not as an expression of love but so he would be thanked and made to feel good. Even the flowers weren't about me.

I use to hate sleeping on my own and hate the dark

Now i love it
I sleep alone in a big king size bed with the door SHUT.............ITS great
And I can`t see it ever being any different

As for the flowers I felt I had to respond like that
I felt a bitch for even thinking like I did`nt want them and I was being out of order
I feel a bitch as I want him to move out
I feel a bitch when he goes to give me a kiss and turn away so he gets my cheek he looks at me like I have hurt him somuch as if i have put a knife into him and I feel ashamed
but he keeps on doing it
I feel a bitch then I feel angry at myself and at him
I feel a bitch for not being able to let go off the PAST AND NOT BE ABLE to move on with him
Which means affecting the kids with my choice yet this is him, his doing

BUTI feel the bad villian in this yet tried for years to stop this from happening
BUT now he has a reason and I feel its me now that is causing the upset and pain here .
He is trying and doing his upmost to win me back and I am throwing it back in his face

Yes I think he has changed and will never return to the Old person that was vile for 7 years .............BUT I have no respect for him
I love him but NOT in the way I should for a husband
I know its wrong but I feel responsible for him I look at him now like a brother and can never see it being anything more

p.s the flowers ,the phone calls in the day to see how i am,the diamond bracelot from a business trip
ITS his way of trying to wear me down so I will stay
AND i have to admit it is working because I can`t think straight anymore
I have to remind myself why we are in this mess as I am accepting this as normal

Because the man that pushed me over the edge in August when I could`nt cope anymore,lost weight ,waking up with panic attacks I went to pieces
Is not this man NOW

Nifty, you're not a bitch, far from it.

You need to believe that.

You're not responsible for him either. You don't have to be grateful and loving if you don't feel it. He destroyed the trust and now he's being nice thinks it can all just flip back to how it used to be, but that's not possible. It wouldn't be possible for anyone.

You haven't failed, you tried, now he's trying, but it's not enough.

7 years? 14 weeks? They're not the same. And he might be lovely forever, but it sounds like something has broken that cannot be mended.

You can still both be parents, you can still be friends (ideally), but it doesn't sound like you are lovers anymore.

And that's very sad, but it doesn't make you a bitch.

Would you consider getting counselling just for you? (I know I keep saying this ) I think it would help you get things straight and decide what to do.

It could help you decide to move on or to give it one last go. But either way it would be about YOUR feelings and not about his.

He chooses to keep trying to kiss you when you have made it clear you don't want to be kissed. So he is either going to have accept the risk of rejection if he tries (and stop guilt-tripping you) or accept your boundaries.

You're not the villain. Maybe the depression is the villain (if that makes it easier than making your H the villain), but it's definitely not you.

You can respond to things how you want to. In fact I don't think your H will ever truly get better if you don't start to stake your right to respond how you need to (just as he is trying to do).

Nifty you really could be me talking at times!

Please go to a counsellor. Mine was so brilliant. I think I did all the talking she just asked the right questions.

My favourite still being,

"And don't you think that you have a right to feel angry?"

in response to asking her how I could get rid of all the anger I felt.

Once I looked at it and just went "yes I do!" the anger started to melt away.

My breaking point came in February

Youknow you talk sense

I am hoping the councilling will help us both
stop the anger ,the guilt etc etc
And we can accept its over and move on OR realise that maybe just maybe we could save it............BUT I NEED to go with a open mind

again thankyou

[email protected]

Any time

Bloody men!

They live on another planet

thanks