Does anyone remember my threads from early in the year? Well...

[YouKnowNothingoftheKABOOM]

I could do with a bit of advice.

Again.

The short version goes like this:-

DH depressed for 2 years. Became emotionally abusive last year while I was pregnant with dc3. Everything was my fault he would scream at me, headbutt walls next to me, blame me for ruining his life. And so on and on.

I finally had enough and with an awful lot of support from MN asked him to leave - for the sake of my mental health and the children.

He changed his medication, changed therapist and moved back in just before dc3 was born. I told him that if he shouted or scared me once more he was gone. And he never has.

Over the Summer things were shaky and I spent a lot of time away with the children. DH started CBT which had dramatic, positive results. When September came and I was home again he was like a different man.

It was like my old DH had come home and we were a team again. Things were really good. We started dating when we could get a babysitter, and he started doing nice little things for me, and actually thinking about what I want instead of just his needs.

So here is the last bit. In the last couple of weeks he has been slipping again. I've caught him out in some small and pointless lies, he seems weighed down and very low. He admits that he is struggling.

And I can't go through the last year again. It was unbearable. I can't begin to describe how I felt, all the pressure of keeping things normal - I thought my head would pop.

He knows that I will leave him if he steps over the line. I know that he needs my help. He wants to talk about things - which is great and productive and necessary. But I don't want to. The suggestion that he is slipping makes me feel so angry with him.

How dare he let himself go back to that place after everything I did for him and everything he did to me?!

But that's not helpful.

So here is the question:-

How can I help him when his illness makes me feel so hurt?

How can I help him when I am aware that he used my help in the past as a rod to beat me?

How can I listen to him when I feel so angry about having to do this again?

Ok, that was more than one question, but you see where I'm going - the main one really is how can I help him and protect me?

I don't want to be flamed for this. I'd have put this in AIBU if I did.

I don't want judgement for staying with this man either. I believe this could work (and even if I'm wrong I still have to try).

I read through the previous threads I started and I don't recognise him or me in them anymore.

Could someone wave a magic wand please and just make this all better?

TIA

ducati, no apology necessary. It's good to know I'm not alone. I am releaved that he's held down a job, I don't know what he'd do without it, it's so much a part of his identity.

But I completely empathise with wishing he could put the same effort into his MH and his family.

Since he's improved he has been putting more focus on us. But he still works late every night - something I shouldn't be surprised at in the current climate I suppose.

It would just be nice to feel valued. But that's just self-indulgent really.

Dh holds down a good job and puts a front up there and at home in front of the kids but when they went to bed he just stopped

the doc said that is normal for "depression" he has nothing left and because he hides it at work and with the kids he can`t when it comes to him and I (wtf)

Nifty, that's exactly it I have watched him go from comatose to laughing and friendly and chatty the second someone came in. IT makes it so hard because you feel like no one will believe what you are dealing with.

I have finally told all friends and family about this (with his consent), and although I've had lots of, "REally?! DH? But he's so happy and nice?!" but everyone has believed me and sympathised. I felt so ashamed for so long, and there was no point in it. I felt like I'd failed him somehow (reinforced by him telling me that).

Sorry for all the whinging. IT has been so nice being able to reply to anxious questions about how I am, with a big, "I'm fine, DH is doing so well, I'm so proud of him!", that I'm struggling to reveal that things have slipped.

I liked being able to be there for other people for a change, rather than be the one with the biggest problems.

When it came out in the open everyone included our parents could`nt believe it

I had lived with it for 7 years
Begging/crying for him to get help as i could see what was happening to us
He refused.......it was only when i decided I could`nt take anymore of being ignored or being spoken to like shit and enough was enough
That he decided to get help and was diagonsed (sp) with depression he has since then been talking to the "head" docter every week
He thinks that doing that will fix everything
He says he "understands" that I am angry resentful and hurt

But he then says it was his depression not him
He know wants my support which he can have but only to a point
He wants another chance !!!!
He brought me down so low that I will only go so far
I went with him to the head docter once and will again every couple of months thats her request.

He seems to think its "get out of jail card" having it and it can wipe out the last 7 years of hell

Yes marriage vows "sickness and health" but what happened to "love and cherish"????
He left our marriage years ago with that

I have 2 dcs not three

These men dont sound depressed to me

The signs and symptoms of depression include loss of interest in activities that were once interesting or enjoyable, including sex; loss of appetite (anorexia) with weight loss or overeating with weight gain; loss of emotional expression (flat affect); a persistently sad, anxious or empty mood; feelings of hopelessness, pessimism, guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness; social withdrawal; unusual fatigue, low energy level, a feeling of being slowed down; sleep disturbance with insomnia, early-morning awakening, or oversleeping; trouble concentrating, remembering, or making decisions; unusual restlessness or irritability; persistent physical problems such as headaches, digestive disorders, or chronic pain that do not respond to treatment; thoughts of death or suicide or suicide attempts. Alcohol or drug abuse may be signs of depression

Does not include treating your partner like shit, you'll find that one under the definition of emotional abuse, not sure being depressed excuses the way these men are treating you

Nor me
You cant turn it on and off You cant suddenly start making an effort as in my dh thinking IT will keep me here now he has a "reason"

You don`t forget to take your meds like youknow dh does
They should do their best to keep every on a even keel not blow it like that knowing how you make your Dw feel

Everybody has a limit

macdoodle, dh is depressed. But I do think it is important to distinguish between the two things.

Dh is depressed
Dh has been emotionally abusive

They are separate. One is not an excuse for the other. You can be one or both or neither.

If it was any other illness, you wouldn't use it as a reason to hurt the ones you love. If DH broke his leg and was feeling pain, it would not be acceptable for him to physically hurt me. So it's not acceptable for him to inflict emotional pain on me to try to make him feel better.

Nifty, I'm worried about you. My DH is trying to accept responsibility for things. He doesn't use the depression as an excuse (anymore), not ever.

youknow
Dh is saying its all his fault etc etc and is being all charming etc etc
In fact i think aliens have abducted the real dh and left me with a smiling/charming Dh WTF
BUT he keeps saying as he knows its his fault
I have to understand that for 7 years he was someone else and he never wants to return to that man BUT the reason he was like that was DEPRESSION
SO I need to work on my feelings of being angry hurt (he says that) and wanting to run for the hills as I think its to little to late from Dh and Dh is on a mission to show me who he can be
But he waited till there was nothing left to salvage anything
He is playing the depression card on me and I feel guilty as he has a excuse for it all

If you get what i mean

He knows I will never leave him while he is "ill" but as a friend pointed out he will never crack on when he is better on the fear that then i will.......

I am angry and resentful and I do not respect dh for Doing nothing for 7 years
but he has a answer for that......depression

Nifty, I do.

Depression doesn't make you another person, though. You are still you.

You mustn't feel guilty. You are not to blame for how he chose to behave. You are not to blame for feeling angry and sad for being treated so badly for so long.

If you choose to leave him because you cannot get passed everything that has happened, that is ok. You do not owe him a debt now that he is treating you better.

YouknownothingoftheKABOOM, I remember you. I remember him posting on the pregnancy threads and thinking he was one of the most manipulative people I have ever encountered. I didn't comment because I didn't think there was any point at all.

I'm sorry he's ill. Depression is a horrible thing. But he chose to treat you as he did. It seems to me extremely likely that he somehow tries to control and punish you as a way to deal with his depression - to hit out at the world, you being the closest representative. He was treating you as an escape, in the same way some depressed people self-harm. At some level he thinks that's okay, I think. It also seems very likely that he will get depressed at times in life, and treat you this way again... as an emotional punch-bag.

Only you can decide your breaking point. I think he was right when he said he didn't deserve you, and you deserved better. Just a shame he was using it as a weapon against you and a sympathy-eliciter from us, really.

it's quite something having had depression to see how partners feel in having to deal with their depressed partner.

I totally understand your anger and frustration, and I really think you have a right to those feelings, however hard they are to hear.

Depression - for me - was an entity that took me over. I did CBT, it kept me alive, literally. I would have up to 3 sessions a week, 2hrs a pop, depending on how bad I was. Which was bad, as bad as it gets.

The drugs didn't work, i'd have to change to other drugs, up the dosage, up the dosage up the dosage. When on Prozac, I ended up being on such a high dose, I got skin rashes. The last drug I took (I believe) had a bad reaction and ended up with me taking an overdose and ending up on heart monitor in ICU. Oh yes, the psychiatrist I was seeing saw me when I was discharged and gave me another prescription for the drug I'd just ODed on...

Relapses do happen, I understand how your DH can 'keep it together' for work and for the CD, but not for you. Holding it together is EXHAUSTING, literally bone achingly exhausting. Just doing anything is absolutely excrutiating. Depression screws your metabolism too, not just your feelings.

I know you may not take it as such, but the fact that he is not feeling as if he has to keep up pretences in front of you, is actually a positive sign. If he were to mask his real feelings in front of you, he'd be isolating himself from you, and I would seriously worry about his intentions, and the possibility of 'doing something stupid'.

I think I do understand your frustration, but please try to look at this as the seriously life threatening disease that it is, like a cancer or similar, it CAN and does kill you.

I know how sad you are to think that you might have to go through this again, having been in that black pit, I can assure you if he could climb out of it, he would. He would not wish that dark place on his worst enemy.

Can you get some RL support? We can be here for you here of course, but you could do with some RL help in dealing with this.

I agree BTW that he has no business in abusing you, you can remind him of his promise to stop the abuse, and that this is a deal breaker, if he steps over that line, there will be consequenses for him. Gently and calmly, but over and over until he gets it.

Otherwise, the sadbox seems it could be helpful, get him to up the CBT, and look at the dosage, or the medication, course of treatment. Mine got so bad they were talking shock treatment and lithium.

As it was, I ended up taking an overdose, and from the day i left the hospital, kept forgetting to take the pills. In the end, I forgot them so often - had some sort of total mental block over taking anything at all... I realised I'd given up the ADs...

Never looked back. Did a bit of therapy, was pointless, made things worse, so turned my back on that too. I felt at the time that I couldn't get back up, until I had touched rock bottom, till I'd stared the depression/death itself in the face.

Stick with it OP, I'm so sorry you are all going through this misery, I wish I could wave a magic wand and take it all away.

groundhog thank you for that. I know if he could flip a switch and choose to better this second, that he would. He was doing really well just doing CBT from a book and has only recently started therapy with someone. The therapy seems to coincide with his lapse...

perfectstorm, yup that was him. He was utterly manipulative. He even went to my parents and apologised for the terrible way he was treating me and promised to never do it again, and then... well, that was probably his worst week He was desperate for the world to see him as "good" and so would call up my friends to ask them what he could do to make me happy, but never do what they suggested. It was all about making the world think he was doing his best.

It was horrible. Luckily a lot of people saw through him and came to me about it becaus they were worried about why he was so desperate to "make me happy".

He got quite delusional too. Would re-write history so that things like his promise to give up drinking (made very sincerely after an evening where he utterly humiliated me) was made because I had "tricked" him into it. Which gave him a licence to go out and get pissed.

He completely "forgot" every night I stayed up with him telling him how special he was and holding him while he cried. He "forgot" how I took him to the GP when I found he was planning to mutilate himself. He "forgot" how I went with him when he needed me, how I quit my training to care for him when he had a breakdown and stopped taking his ADs (yes, I know, I was manipulated). He "forgot" how I begged him to be on the end of a phone when I went for my first scan, because I was terrified (history of MCs); and he "forgot" and went out with a female friend of his (because she was lonely and needed him).

We've been together for 11 years. And up until 2 years ago he was the most generous and lovely man you could meet. A real family man. We would spend all our time together because we just got on so well. He was the laid back one, I was the bossy one. He was daft and spontaneous and I was sarcastic and realistic.

I'm trying to stress that I know he has been... a horrible person for the past year, but that isn't him! And for a couple of months I had my DH back, and it was fantastic.

The talk didn't go well. Or maybe it did. I don't know. He made a list of all the possible negative behaviours. He reluctantly suggested moving out as the consequence of some of them. We had a long discussion about why him negating my feelings and asking me to justify why I felt hurt, without offering any acceptance or comfort, was as bad as him blaming me for his depression. He still doesn't understand why it is that bad (which makes me unbelievably ).

He then collapsed completely and cried for ages about the fact that he might have to move out. I pointed out that he wouldn't have to if he behaved appropriately, but he just kept saying things like "One bad day is all it'll take and I'll have to go!"

After a while I got and pointed out (calmly but firmly) that he was so upset about having to move out, and not shedding one tear for his potentially hurting me.

He tried to tell me not to worry, that he'd never hurt me again, but I pointed out that if he was so sure of that he had no need to fear moving out.

IT was already late by this point and I was very tired. So I gave him a hug, said I hoped he was ok and that he needed to stop turning things inwards. And then I asked him to sleep in the spare room. And I went to bed.

It's not looking good, is it?

I really hoped he'd see this as a positive thing that would make me feel safer. Instead I now see just how far he has already gone. He's turned completely inwards

Sorry that was so long

(I know it's long, sorry)

i find the views of people who have had depression valuable - but perhaps they are the ones who have seen thru it and taken responsibility for it; and not blamed the other person or asked the wife/partner to help cure them.

support yes but not cure.

"I think I do understand your frustration, but please try to look at this as the seriously life threatening disease that it is, like a cancer or similar, it CAN and does kill you."

yet -- but you would not expect to be the one to TREAT the cancer. you do not decide the level of chemo, you hand over to the experts for that.
if the person is really sick - you hand them over to the hospital and nursing care.

cancer is straightforward in that respect.

mental illness is not.

the person who is "fine" at work then comes home and "lets it all out". hello?

cancer is cancer - it doesnt wax and wane like this. it is there or it isnt. you get an infection or you dont. the chemo makes you sick or it doesnt. if you get nauseaus you can take anti nauseau pills..

yes - there is the point at which the person can be sectioned when thy let it all out everywhere - but mostly they look "fine" at work, at the GP, in front of the psychiatrist....

cancer tumour is there or it isnt. mental illness waxes and wanes....

is that fair to the wife/children?

no it isn't....

and the line between abuse versus the mental illness - where does one end and the other begin?

what part of the manipulation/crying/begging/pleading is mental illness and what is personality/abuse? sometimes is hard to tell.

mith my exP - i believe it is the mental illness which makes him think that I still hold the answer to "cure " him - that if I only took him back he would be well...so he tries the manipulation - "just let me in the door, let me come play with the DCS, i am sick... " . it is utter nonsense.

but he wont go seek treatment for this obsession. becuse he wont admit it when he goes to GP or his friends - they are told by him - "i am feeling low" but not his real thoughts.

it is all skewed.
it isnt easy at all.

and i supposedly have gotten away from him! but having dcs with him mens there has to be some level of contact still.

Depression in a partner is incredibly difficult, even if it isn't combined with abuse. Depression is by nature a selfish illness. It makes everything revolve around your own feelings and issues, and pushes out anyone else - meaning a concerted effort is required by a depressive to respond to other people's feelings. I speak as someone who has been there.

But when it's combined with abuse (of any kind) it becomes unbearable. It would be so much easier to say he is doing this because he is depressed. But that takes all responsibility away from the individual. You never have the right to hurt someone else just because you are feeling bad.

IT is one thing to neglect your relationship, it is another to attack it.

I would love to say all of this is DH's depressions's fault. But it's not.

He did this to me, to us, to the dcs.

How do you forgive that?

well i dont forgive.

I am happy to "forget" - in the sense - accept and move on. as separated parents.

but he is not - and constantly says "but it was my depression that led to me being violent" etc. "but I was ill" "but I am ill now and you can help me".

his mental illness leads him to not accept the facts? and not be able to move on?

I dont know.

it isnt as bad as living with him day to day - but it still impacts; and impacts on his contact with the dcs. still ahve to deal with him, court hearings etc etc.

his mental illness - combined with abusive/manipulative nature - still impacts on my life, thru the dcs. and on the dcs life.

Does anyone have any comment on his response last night?

Hello !

I don't have any advice - sorry - but just wanted to say hi ! Long time no speak. Sorry things aren't working out, you have really been going through thisand giving it your all.

How's dd ?

Hi Wheely It has been far too long.

DD is fantastic. She's such a laid back baby - I think karma is trying to balance things out after the crappy pregnancy. How's your dd? She must be enormous!

I think Karma for everything else going on too.

DD2 is lovely - almost 8 months !! Not laid back but is very happy - just a bit of a monkey. Has almost mastered stair climbing so is keeping me on my toes.

Sorry for hijacking your advice thread - hope someone comes along to offer useful advice. Will be thinking of you.

Thanks Wheely, nice to be reminded of normal things

Did he acknowledge how things were going? Did he say he would go back to the GP and get his meds looked at again?

I think that if he didn't, then you need another chat to let him know that this is what needs to be done to try to ensure that things get back onto an even keel.

That way you'll have addressed what has happened and what needs to be done to try to stop it getting any worse.

I hate to say this, but if he refuses to get any more help, then you're really, really going to have to do some serious thinking about getting him to leave and you taking care of you and your children....

Lemony he has made an appointment with the GP for next week, although he says they won't up his meds as they're already high. At least he will be talking to them about it.

He says he's sorry for how he reacted last night and admits that he did turn everything into a "Poor me" when it was supposed to constructive support for me.

I was just so disappointed in him when he started crying about what would happen to him if he was cruel to me. It really shocked me that he could be so self-centred after everything that has happened.

I know emotional abuse isn't as obvious as physical abuse, so for those who haven't experienced it try to imagine your DH crying because he doesn't want to move out and that is what will happen if he punches you again. NB not crying because he has been punching you and is sorry, or because you are scared he might punch you, or because of you at all, but because he might punch you on a bad day without thinking, and then he would be "punished".

He says he'll do his CBT more and run more and see his GP. I hope he does.