Over or under reaction

[gonnabehappy]

I will really appreciate some input here - my brains are scrambled. Most of the story is on 'healing after the affair' so I will just describe this week.

Eldest son's best mate took an overdose last Sunday. For very complex reasdons she effectively has no parents and her grandparents who were supposed to be caring for her were out of the country. Son and I spent Sunday night, Monday and Tuesday at the hopsital (I was shocked to find that if there is no 'responsible' adult she would not be supplied with toothbrush and toothpaste after vomiting for hours, neither could she activate the TV when moved to an ordinary teen bed without a credit card - what on earth is happening in the NHS...but that may be for another thread). As you can imagine is has been a truly terrible few days, and son is exhausted emotionally and physically. I guess so am I.

Then just as things have settled, I get a telephone call from the school. It appears that middle son had saved up his pocket mney to buy a BB gun (something he knew he was NOT allowed to have under any circumstances). Of course he took it into school to show off to his friends, and accidentally fired a shot (I am pretty sure he did not realise it had any ammo in it, it did only have one pellet). Quite properly he is now excluded from the school for a day and may receive a talking to from the police when he returns next week.

Then, having got upset about the level of deceit I deceided (WHY????) to look at husband's phone. Yep - although he now is aware enough to wipe all texts emails etc if he does not want me to see them it was possible to see that he had been searching his address book for OW contact details. Of course I went upstairs and asked him what this was about. He said he could not remember.

I then went back downstairs and tried to get back into his facebook and personal email - those he used to stay in touch with OW before. I couldn't - no surprises there I knew he had changed passwrds. He came down and asked what I was doing. I told him and asked him to let me see his facebook. Guess what - he could not remember how to get into either facebook or hotmail! However he did 'remember' that he had been told at work that OW's mother had died. He had searched for her contact details in order to send a message of condolence. He says he thought better of it and did not make conatct.

This week he has been very very down, almost tearful. He says that this is because he is depressed about money. Last time he was like this it was to do with OW.

My brain is churning - is this the lie that ends it all? Is he really trying to repair things? If so why does he keep secrets and lie? He said over and over again that he loves me. But all I can hear is all the things he said when he was being so cruel last summer.

This morning I said I was going to try and go away for the weekend (a friend has a place by the sea I can sometimes use). I said I would take the boys. He obviously does not want me to go - and I have not yet been able to get hold of this friend.

What a fucking mess - and I am soooo tired of it all. What should I do? My life feels like utter shit. Have been making a small reduction in ADs over past fortnight - really want to get off them but not good timing for anything.

Thanks again ladies. Gonna, where have you gone? Hope you're feeling a bit better today.

Since I was a bit worried that I may have hijacked your thread with my own issues, I just wanted to check out with you whether you are ok with us doing that, or would you prefer us to start a different thread?

Counting, I remember your story so well from the spring/summer. I was the one with that "elephant in the room" post - and I could have cheered when you did your snooping, got your evidence and then had the balls to send those E mails to OW. I knew then that you were my kind of person!

And Happy Woman, I always admire your willingness to help others in these situations and I take great comfort from the progress you have made.

I regard this experience and recovery as the most difficult thing I've ever had to do. Mumsnet has been a lifeline to me at times, knowing that my feelings are not abnormal.

Thank you.

Still here. Pleased to read other's stories so absolutely fine re thread.

Just not sure what to write hence not posting.

Fell such a fool and even more because I seem unable to change anything.

gonna - been thinking about you and actually - because of the weekend how i feel.

I wonder if you fear having the control of the relationship now? And whether he is unwilling to give you the control fully.

My h said he felt scared that i could end it anytime i wanted now - and he is doing nothing to stop that (that is not true actually but the lies dont help).
I feel uncomfortable with this (it would be so much easier to leave the marriage if he were to cheat again). But with these 'silly' lies it feels as if i am being unreasonalble - when i know i am not (i asked him to be open and truthful and he is not). So it is my own inability to stick to that line in the sand that i have made. iyswim.

I feel that what my h is doing (and maybe yours) is to try and make us feel some guilt. They know we are not good at being completly hard.

But actually we are left feeling even lower about ourselves.

Does that ring a bell with you?

Can you tell i am feeling a bit low.

And all i seem to be able to think about is that joke.

'how do you know when a man is lying?'

'his lips move'

Are they born like that or do they learn how to lie so well.

HW - hope you don't mind me breaking into the thread but you could look at this to see if it helps.

I know you did at lot of research so you may have seen it before but it might also be helpful for others in similar situation. Its a bit simplistic - but easy reading if your heads a bit all over. And if gives some references if you want to look furter.

www.truthaboutdeception.com/

Don't know how to do links - sorry.

Thanks will have a look at that - most of the research i did was to do with affairs and i dont think i saw this.

It is only recently that i have wondered whether he has a real problem with lies. All his family see to as well .

Can someone change that much??

Happywoman I am so sorry you are feeling low atm. You have been a real inspiration to me over the last few awful months following discovery.

That site is very interesting especially the language and the use of language in lies and more importantly, deception. I think I am going to show it to me DH over the weekend (he's recovering from a tooth extraction and is in abject agony atm - sorry I shouldn't really have put that grin emotion in !!)

I personally think it is all the lies, blagging, deception that is the real issue for all of us here. I am like Whenwill in that I think that maybe a few months down line and despite the counselling, my DH will revert to type. ATM he is so busy getting the business straight etc that he doesn't have the time to be "bored" and find new ways of "risk taking". I so hope I am doing him a serious disservice saying that for my and the DC's sake.

My ex - the one I had the affair with - was a complusive liar. He admitted it to me - if that's not a contradiction in terms !

When I went out with him first time round he was a bit of a liar then - and I think it was how he was brought up. His parents over-reacted with him so he didn't tell the truth because if he was honest it all blew up out of proportion and he didn't want the confrontation.

So over the years, it got to be a habit and the lies have just got bigger and more serious as he's got older. He's also got issues about intimacy and showing his emotions.

Bearing in mind I don't really know his wife and he's a complusive liar, but I get the feeling from things he done and told me and other people, he lies to his wife because she reacts badly if he's truthful, so it all repeats itself again.

For example, when he told me he was going back to her and, lets face it, he couldn't really lie about that one - he though my first reaction would be to 'punch him and to call him a bastard ' . Not that I would be upset and devastated and think it was my fault. So without reading too much into that - it gives you an indication of his expectation of how someone would react to bad news. In the normal course of events he's do what he could to avoid a negative reaction from someone he loved.

From my point of view, I could relate as I'm also a bit of a liar - my parents used to go mad if I did anything wrong and set such ridiculously high standards, it was easier to fib about stuff than deal with their disapproval.

I never did anything really bad - just kids stuff and teenage stuff - but they always took the other persons side and never stuck up for me. In the end I just learnt not to be honest because I ended up being hurt by their reaction. If I tried to explain or tell the truth it would be dismissed without discussion.

I still find it really hard to be honest now - even though I know its usually the best policy - but old habits do die very hard. Even in my first counselling sessions I was weighing up whether the counsellor would 'tell me off ' if I told her the gospel truth. I mean, how bad and ingrained is that !

But I have managed to tell my DP everything about the affair - I did do the drip / drip at the start ( its a long story WRT discovery day and a bit complicated to go into here ) and believe me, that did cause more problems than if I'd just gone for it immediately - after all, I was going to tell him anyway, the timing was just very wrong. But I came clean pretty quickly. To this day, I don't know what he's told his wife about me or the affair.

The website looks alot about the dynamics of lying - but it also covers affairs and love styles and patterns in relationships. Its a starting point - but might help point people in the right direction.

Counting - glad you found it useful. I don't know why it struck a chord with me. I just thought it was readable and accessible at a time when I needed readable and accessible things. If that makes sense.

Reverting to type = my biggest fear and the things we are talking about most too.

Yep, everything goes back to childhood. As I said on this thread my DH's childhood was about dysfunctional as you could get and I think he lied from an extremely young age to get through it. I am also guilty of reacting badly when confronted with things that upset me and am really trying to make telling the truth a not unpleasant experience for him IYSWIM.

Having read the article and going back over what our counsellor said, I am going to stop the direct questioning method and try one of the others. I don't think my DH has ever been rewarded for telling the truth and tbh, some of his deceit has been pretty earth shattering for me (financial stuff etc) but it would have been sooooo much easier if he had been honest from the start.

I have had a quick read too - and it does look interesting - most of the stuff is not really new but seeing in black and white again does make some of it a bit clearer.

The lie that i found out about was really nothing to do with the affair but the fact that he can lie so easily when he knows if i do find out i will not take it well (maybe you could say i over-react too). And i do know that he has a fear of not being liked and so if i see him as the 'bad boy' yet again it is not good.

It could come from being an only child - he has never really learned to share anything - and i think that goes for feelings too. I also know he does not want to challenge his childhood as in his eyes it was perfect (his perception). I know a couple of times in the past someone has said it could not have been all that good and he has got really upset as if you have tried to call him a liar for it - iyswim.
Certainly some food for thought.

But i have learned that i am not going to try and 'fix' it for him - either he wants the marriage to work and he will discover in himself the reasons why or he will not and i will have to say i cannot tolerate any more lies. The ball is firmly in his court again now as i am so tired of working on it.

On the up side though - we are going away for half term to somewhere sunny so maybe a top of warm weather will help lift my spirits - if only there wasnt all the packing beforehand.

and there lies another problem - our childhood is only what we 'believe' it to be.
Maybe counting if yours looked he may have to admit it wasnt all bad and would have less to 'blame' on it - just a thought .

This is just a vile week. We finally had a big chat about some remaining issues, only for him to accidentally send me a text meant for his best friend saying to the tune of 'fgs, not more, what else is there to say except I fancied someone else and did a load of stupid things I regret and shouldn't have'. Christ, I sometimes don't even think he even gets why it upsets me at all? As far as he is concerned, I think he feels that he stopped it, doesn't care about her so I should be grateful and forget it. End of. He seems to have the attitude that if I'd done all that crap to him, he'd have forgotten about it by now - and he said (during the chat) he thought it was weird I needed all the details, for one thing. I seriously want to pack and leave.

abedelia this website www.beyondaffairs.com has a very good article on "the need to know" which I showed to my DH so he could understand why I needed "to know". The article explains it like a jigsaw where they have all the pieces therefore can see the whole picture and you are the one with 300 pieces missing from a 1000 piece jigsaw. There is an actual letter from a betrayed husband explaining this to his wife. The letter is very moving and hit home for me.

My therapist also explained to my DH as well as he mentioned to her that I kept wanting to know the details and she explained it like the post match analysis of a football game where men discuss the ins and out - maybe your H could understand this analogy (sp?). I am very sure that they all hate going back there and my DH has agreed that he will now try and remember as much as he can about the conversations he had with OW about me, he may even write it down as that maybe easier for him.

Please take care of yourself - can you get away on your own for a bit of space, maybe a pamper weekend for a mum to be ?

I wonder if it is time to say where we are - I know I would like company - anyone else?

I am in North East Hampshire....

Ps not really posting because I am not doing what you have suggested. All is calm again, no counselling on the horizon (h says no) and no hope of change. Am very low - does not help that I hurt my back on Tuesday (this is an old problem and may or may not be short term). It has taken me so long to get walking again I am really pissed off. I HATE being dependent on people.

gonna - hope you feel better soon - do keep talking to us - it may even help you give yourself some space away in your head iyswim.
Now may not be the time to have 'rules' for him to stick to, get yourself well first.

I have sent you a message so if you want to chat anytime just let me know.

Gonnabe - there's nothing like constant physical pain to really grind you down. Please bear this in mind and so don't let yourself get into a complete rut.

As for my rubbish, children have norovirus so I am going nowhere soon, unfortunately. I did use the analogy before of 'if one of the dcs was hit by a car and the police said 'well, the driver has said sorry, took them to hospital and did all they could so why do you want to know how it happened? What good would it do?' then would you be satisfied or would you want the details?' Can't get much clearer than that.

Still, he is asking if there is anything else to clear up so I am having a good think and hopefully getting it all done. I too am sick of going over it and just want things to be better. Think I scared him about my mental health this time as our initial chat was sparked by me sending him something pretending to be her. Have no idea why I did it as it's really childish and totally out of character - definitely the single weirdest thing I've done in my life, but I was very tired and just felt backed into a corner over how to get it out in the open and cleared up. Apparently it wasn't illiterate enough to be her, so he guessed immediately... (ish)

I had a god awful night last night. DH finally opened up to some of the things he did with OW which included a trip to a well known shopping mall, buying her clothes and some cheap jewellery. It really, really upset me, spent about 3 hours sobbing uncontrollably. It really opened the flood gates. I think all the pain came flooding back, I was at home fearing for his mental health, breaking my heart over him, looking after the 4 DC, trying to keep it together whilst he was having a fantastic time, swanning around a shopping mall with her, watching her trying on stuff that he was paying for.

I doubt he will be forthcoming with any more information after last night ......

He has been so defensive as well, it's like he hasn't really faced up to what he has done (he has almost acknowledged this). He jut said well you knew I took her shopping. I didn't realise he had gone out of his way to take her to a fantastic shopping mall, not just into the local town or next town. I love this shopping mall and he knows it, I just told I would never go there again (with him).

It's his 40th birthday next week so I am trying to cheer up. Help me ladies, what do I do ?

It is hard - OW sat in the car. He kissed her in the car. These things really haunt don't they.

On the good news front back still sore but a whole lot better -= will be a short one this time I think!!!!!!!

40th birthday - God these things are so hard when life has been turned up side down. Will have a think...I know the best gift I could give my husband is a week off from any mention of OW and affair and how abandoned I felt etc etc

What do you think? Might be quite nice to see what you can talk/think about without all that?

Things have got to look up pretty quickly, we are going for a weekend away at the end of the month.

I personally think I am doing what I have done all my live, put other people before myself. Put his feelings before my own etc.

I know he would like to see me really happy, to smile, not have a look of sadness, "going quiet" as he puts it. I feel so empty inside at the moment, like I have given so much of me over to the DC, the marriage, business whatever, that I really don't know who I am any more. I use to have a good career, I use to have a horse and loved riding. I feel I have given so much of myself up in the last few years and this affair feels like a kick in the teeth. In my heart I also know that I have allowed this to happen so only I can change it but I am really at a loss on where to start if that makes sense.

Counting I know exactly where you are - you are doubting everything you thought you knew about yourself - you don't know who you are let alone your husband.

A wise woman (do you recognize this - I think we are both good at talking the talk, perhaps it is time to walk the walk?) earlier in this thread said....

"but maybe if we convince ourselves everything is OK then maybe over time, we will get there. I know it takes such a long time to recover from affairs and I am trying to be gentle with myself and I want my DH to do the same"

I think the best advice here is to be gentle with ourselves. Yes we are having as big an identity crisis as our husbands did - perhaps even more so. BUT 'be gentle with yourself'.

Neither of us are going to be sorted today, or even tomorrow. I am going to go for trying to rebuild friendship with husband and getting some writing done so I feel better about self. What are you going to do for you?

I am reading 'the compassionate mind' at the moment. It is a mix of psychological knowledge and Buddhism with (so far, I am not finished) the over riding message being understand why you are angry/guilty/whatever (it is not about affairs), be compassionate to yourself instead of beating yourself up...and then be compassionate to others.

It is interesting...

X

Abe

"Think I scared him about my mental health this time as our initial chat was sparked by me sending him something pretending to be her. Have no idea why I did it as it's really childish and totally out of character - definitely the single weirdest thing I've done in my life,"

This made be grin - one day I will tell you about all the things I have done - including turning into an expert cyberstalker! I expect you wanted to hurt him, done and onwards!

You know that story about successful dieters are the one's who slip up accept it and move on, the unsuccessful one4s are those who slip up and then stop trying (at least for that day/week). Reckon that applies to the pair of us!

Happy - the childhood thing has really got to me - making me think about that is why i do not want to do counselling...and maybe that is why husband does not want to do it too.

Know for sure that many of husband's lies have been because he has been afraid of how upset I would be by the truth.

Childhood certainly adds something to why my self esteem was so dependent on husband that is for sure. I have struggled to really attain my own sense of self worth despite having achieved things over the past few years that I know are exceptional.

All a bit odd

Just bought myself some flowers to cheer myself up - no doubt DH will say I did it to make him feel guilty