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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Opinions and advice sort on my situation

109 replies

toot · 23/05/2003 14:19

I had first child in 97. He came early (7wks) so it was all a bit scary. I started NCT lessons but had only done 2 when baby arrived so didnt really bond with any one. After 6 months that were quiet grim (at home for 1st time ever, knew no one except for my elderly neighbours, that sort of thing)I decided to get out there and meet people.

I joined church tods and met J.and B. We got on quiet well and inspite J having habbit of lecturing about everything (from how well her ds slept to the MMR jab) things rubbed along.I detected that J and B got on better than me and J and would often find that I was excluded from conversations because I hadnt been at a particular outing or coffee morning etc but I didnt really mind. I had enough contact not to feel isolated and I had also made friends with C another new mum to the tods group. After a time we were a 4.

Js lecturing and excluding manner grew over a period of time and I can think of many occasions where shed greet my arrival at Bs house with phrases like "oh! didnt expect to see YOU here" or tell me she was busy if I asked her out etc only to find she`d gone to the zoo etc with B.

I gradually became closer friends with C to the point that I asked her to be God mother to my second son and she asked me to be the G.M to her 3rd. I continued to see and be good friends with B who is the "salt of the earth" but over time, reduced contact with J as she always made me feel unwanted or uncomfortable.

My second child was born in 2001, also premature and after a vomit ridden 7 month pregnancy. J and B also had babies 5 weeks either side of mine. To cap my miserable pregnancy, 6 weeks after the baby came my Dad died at only age 58.

B and C sent me cards, offers of help etc but the only mention made of my absence from our group by J was in a telephone conversation when I invited her to my sons baptism. She said "in the nicest possible way, WE have got use to you not being around". I was very upset.

Last Sept Js son, Bs son and my son all started in reception class at the same school. At the school gate, it was all I could do to get J to acknowledge my exsistance some days. She would often not even say good morning or look in my direction and if I ever made a point of making her notice me she`d say "sorry didnt see you".

Our boys get on well and things continued with J and I only seeing each other at school or in the company of B or C at tods.

At Christmas J had asked what we 4 were going to do about christmas gifts for the children. (The year before we had stopped our usual practice of buying them all gifts as there were now 10 kids and B & C weren`t as well off as J and I). I told J that I would fit in with what ever the others wanted to do. J said that every one was not buying gifts this year and thats how we left it.

The following week at tods, I half heard a conversation between J and C about organising christmas gifts. Privately I asked J what had changed the arrangements and she said she had decided to do things on an individual basis with C,B and I. I asked (jokingly) did that mean buying their children gifts but missing out my two - she said yes. She also pointed at my little one and said why would she buy him a gift, she never sees him and he meant nothing to her. I left.

B was upset and tried to patch things up for everybody.J said she had been misunderstood but I knew different.

Since then I have gone out of my way to avoid J. Ironically, for a while she made great efforts to say hello of a morning and engage me in conversation but I didnt bite. B and her continued to do the sort of things they had before eg take each others kids home from school, take their youngest (same age as my youngest) to clubs ect so I made a real effort to get to know the other mums and their kids so as not to appear to be "billy no mates ".

This actually back fired a little as B has recently told C that I`m not around that much and that I seem to have "readjusted my friendship group" I have not a clue what that means.
I had hoped that B would reolise that I avoided her only when she was chatting to J and that when J is not there I happily chat to B .

The final twist in my sorry tail came recently when I was asked by C to go to soft play outing with her and her youngest 2 children (to celebrate one of their birthdays).
My oldest asked why J and Bs sons had been asked to the birthday party but he had not. I said their wasnt a party, just a soft play visit for the younger ones. My son was so sure it was a party I checked with C only to find that J and B (plus all their children) were going for tea at C house after school. C said it was not a party,just tea with a Birthday cake.

I told her I was hurt a/ that my oldest was not asked to either the soft play outing during the day or the tea party in the evening and b/that obviously she had felt J and I would not mix at a social function for a 3 y.o so had bumped me.
C replied that J and B go together as a set.

We havent spoken since. I dont feel she was the person I thought she was.

I continue to see B every week for lunch and our youngest play.

What do you think - too sensitive? stupidly chucking away friends for un important reasons? or did I basically do right.

OP posts:
youcandoit · 07/08/2003 07:48

Toots, there is life after an ended friendship. I had a very good friend once. Our children were best friends from babyhood onwards. We saw them most weeks. Unfortunately the friend and I had a big falling out over a sensitive, discipline incident with our children. We each had a different view of the situation and couldn't reconcile these or find a compromise, though I still believe I tried the most. Mainly as a result of that the friend froze me out of her life and generally p*** me off big time. It only took a month or two to see what she was doing. It was very obvious and hurtful.
We had a few showdowns, talks about our friendship once or twice, but the damamge was done. It was her actions that hurt me - the non invites, the deliberate ingoring, the general sense of animosity, the feeling that she didn't like my children and the worry that she was talking to others about me behind my back. Once it got to that stage talking about things just made it worse. So I cut loose and ceased all contact with her and never talked about her to our mutual friends. I don't want to know what she is doing to this day. That would mean I have to spend precious time thinking about her After just a few months I hardly felt angry with her and week by week, thought about the hurtful things and our once time friendship less and less. My children were happy to see no more of her, too. They realised she made mummy upset and preoccupied. Children can be very wise. A year on the hurt is healed completely. I hope the same thing happens with you if you go it alone.

beetroot · 07/08/2003 08:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

toot · 07/08/2003 12:59

I soooooooo want to be able to say im past the whole thing like you youcandoit. Time is precious and your right I dont want to waste it. I find it easier to be positive when I spend time with nice people, makes me feel Im not Jonny no mates IYKWIM. Just the school gate thing in September to get over. Not that Im dreading it, it is just the only place where Ill see B and C so it`s a little difficult to not think of them. Once again, thanks all for all your kind posts

OP posts:
Kazziegirl · 05/09/2003 11:29

Toots - Just wondering how things are with you now and how the return to school was? Hope all is well and that the situation is getting easier.

toot · 05/09/2003 19:49

Thats so kind Kazziegirl that you asked. First day was a bit crap. Had a lovely summer then when I got back into the playground the feelings came flooding back. Part of the reason for this was a) DS1 going off with his new teacher(he looked so small as he went in) and b) The mummy whose friendship I have cultivated was deep in conversation with B and J. I kind of felt that I couldnt chat to her. I had little chats with other mothers ect but then I had to go to the office. When I came back out the conversation was still going on and all other mothers had gone. I had to walk past them with my little one.

The next day and every day since I have taken the initiative and gone over to my friend and chatted if I wanted to (even if she was next to B or J. This has helped me feel less oppressed.

So to answer the question how am I? Id say, still bothered but trying hard not to be. My head sees bothering about these 2 women as a waste of time but my insides dont seem to listen. If anyone has any ideas to turn off the feelings Id love to here them.

OP posts:
tigermoth · 06/09/2003 09:03

toot, I've been following this thread since the beginning and read with sadness of your three friends' treatment of you. To begin with I thought the problem lay with J mostly and that's when I posted you a reply, but subsequent events have shown that your other two friends are either very weak or simply not very nice people to have in your life. In either case, as others have said, you are better off without them.

It actually sounds like your are feeling less bad about seeing them already. You say you are 'still bothered but trying not to be'. That's a lot better than leaving the playground feeling tearful, as you did last term.

If you see them and feel the hurt suddenly welling up inside, call to mind one of the nasty, insensitive things they did to you. Get angry. Find a mantra 'they are not worth it' and silently repeat it till you feel OK again.

If you feel alone in the playground, look out for the parents of the new reception year class. Chances are most will really appreciate another mother chatting to them about the new school.

Good luck toot, and if a mumsnet meet up happens in your area (they seem to be happening everywhere at the moment) do take yourself along!

Paula71 · 06/09/2003 23:02

Toot, I have just read this whole situation and I empathise with you so much I feel like driving down to Bristol just to give you a hug!
Unfortunately people like J seem to have a magic over people that mean they pander to them. Rather than, as sensible people would, say to J, "Look you don't like 'toot' but she is our friend and god mum to our children so we are not excluding her to play some silly game" B and C seem to be going out of their way to keep her happy while making your life miserable.
I have a group of friends all of whom I lost thanks to a "J". Even my mum ended up loosing contact with her whole family because her SIL is a "J".
I am glad the people in Mumsnet are supportive as when you go through it alone, like I did, you get depressed and low self-esteem settles like a heavy weight.
I don't have any close friends now. In fact my days are pretty much centred around my twin ds'. To some that may sound terrible but to me it is less painful than having friends who diss you around like this.
At the moment it seems J is trying to drive a wedge between you and this new mum at the school gates. Perhaps, if all else fails you could embarrass J by asking her what her problem is with you?

Jollymum · 07/09/2003 08:11

Toots-hope things are going better for you! Just a quick thought-I agree with what people are saying about friends like that not being worth it BUT I know how you feel. Next time you have to walk past them, think about me. My "best" friend had an affair with my dh and after it all blew up it was time for my little one to attend Nursery. Guess where her child was? Right across the playground going into Reception. Every day I had to "see" her twice, am and pm and it caused so much pain. Because she obviously knew my little one from him going on access visits to Daddy, I couldn't just ignore her if he went across to say hello. It was awful and eventually hers went to Juniors and mine were still in Infants. Put a big smile on your face, talk to whoever you like and think about this-NO-ONE CAN HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN YOUR HEAD, so if you know any rude words, think them to yourself, and hold your head high as you walk past. This is playground bullying and it can sometimes affect the children. Mine were always asking "Mummy, why are you getting dressed up to go to school" but it was in my head all the time that if I loooked scruffy, people would think that's why ex- dh had left me. Sad I know, but it really did affect me and I feel for you. Good luck, anyway and remember, mumsnetters are always here. LOL

doormat · 07/09/2003 09:33

Jollymum you are an inspiration to women

Hughsie · 07/09/2003 10:24

Jollymum - you are an incredibly strong woman - good for you - you are really fab!

toot · 07/09/2003 12:31

we`ve been at the in laws till this morning but thanks Tigermoth, paula 71 and Jolly mum for your posts.

The reception kids dont start at our school for another week but I will try to chat to parents Tigermoth. B has a dd in the new reception clas but I figure she cant monopolise all the new folk! My son has a new class mate, a little girl from south america. I have chatted to her mum as she seems to know no one.

Paula 71, if you are ever in the Henleaze area of Bristol do contact me - hugs always welcome. I dont think Ill try the chat to J to ask her what her problem is. I feel Id get upset at a conflict and she may gain some satisfaction.

Jolly mum - wow - thanks for thinking of me. Seeing that woman must have been hell and it puts seeing J and B into context. If you can do that, I can get through this. I do know some rude words to say inside my head - nice idea

OP posts:
CAM · 07/09/2003 22:35

toots, if your ex-friends are chatting to your new friend just say hello to the group as you walk past. You can speak to whoever you like, please don't let these women upset you any more. They are not worth it.

newgirl · 08/09/2003 13:21

Dear Toot - I have just read this thread and i wanted to say thank you for your honesty. I am new to this mums thing and i think it is useful to read about this stuff and learn from it. i can see this potential in our groups of mums!

I read a book called 'Stop thinking and start living' which helped me alot, and it came to mind when reading your thread. it says that feeling depressed or pissed off is controlled by our own thoughts. Basically, if you relive a bad moment, or a harsh comment etc then you give it more power. and it can cause you more pain and hours of worry from something that only took seconds to say.

i just wanted to mention this so maybe you can spend more of your thoughts on your new friends and lovely children and less time worrying about the negative people in your environment; you might feel happier for it. sorry if that sounds hippyish, but it worked for me. roughly translated, if you cross the playground and think 'there's that bitch' instead think instead 'i'll go and talk to that nice new mum'. or even just remember the happy times such as the christenings and try to forget the shit that has happened with C recently. might be a bit tricky that one!

Metrobaby · 08/09/2003 15:07

Toots - like others I have been following this thread. I'd say from your first posting to now, that you seem to be on the road to recovery. However this road is often a rocky one. If you ever feel that it is getting you down, you know where to come for support, some words of wisdom and experience, or a lightlighted banter (eg the rabbit thread . There seems to be a few mums on here such as CAM, newgirl, youcandoit, jollymum, tigermoth, paula71 to name but a few, who have been through similar experiences and most importantly come through the other side, and can give you inspiration. It makes me so sad that there are bullies like J, and spineless ones like B and C around who tolerate and feed the behaviour of J's - however there are some nice mums out there too - honest. Hopefully it won't take too long to find the nice ones. Tigermoth's idea of talking to the reception class mums is an excellent idea. I'm sure that B can't dominate all of them so I wouldn't worry ....

Good luck toots, we're all rooting for you girl !

toot · 08/09/2003 17:07

Thanks CAM , newgirl and Metrobaby.
You are so right Metrobaby,I do take tremendious support from the mumsnetters and I loved the rabbit thread!
I`d like to have a read of that book newgirl - could you post a few details?

OP posts:
Kazziegirl · 08/09/2003 19:37

Hi Toot - I'm so pleased to hear that you are coping. I echo everything the others have said. Carry on being strong and remember that there are lots of us who would love to have a friend like you. Keep smiling and being friendly and eventually J will show her true colours to others around her too. I'm sure each day will get easier and time goes on. Lots of love xx

toot · 08/09/2003 20:07

Can you all move next door though?

OP posts:
Paula71 · 08/09/2003 22:19

I think we should all move together, take over a town somewhere as everyones attitudes are so refreshing.

You are right toot, J would probably get satisfaction from you asking. New thought, now YOU DON'T CARE. So what if they are playing these silly games, Jollymum has the right view. You are better than them, the fact this has hurt you has proved that - if it makes sense. So smile, do the swear word thing and you will leave them wondering what is making you so damn happy

I heard a saying once: if you get in the dirt to fight with the pigs you just get dirty, and the pigs like that. I should remember that!

So next time they sidle up to someone you have been friends with just be cool, composed and they won't know what is happening. I shall be keeping track and sending you good vibes!

Paula71 · 08/09/2003 22:21

Just to add another thought.

Look at all these people who have supported you. Do you think J, B or C could ever have such support or so many people rooting for them?

You go girl!

toot · 09/09/2003 10:01

..... Will try.

OP posts:
Boe · 09/09/2003 10:16

Toot - you are a great person - just keep thinking that when you ahve to see them - how dare they treat you like this, they are sad small minded bullies and I hope it happens to them oneday and they will ealise the hurt and suffering that it causes.

You are better than them and they do not deserve to have a friend like you - you deserve nice people who are not small minded, bitchy, sad individuals - and remember that people like this only react like they do because they are jealous of what you have or what they think you have.

Head up high, make some nice new friends and let them get on with it - at the end of the day it is a surity that they will end up turning on each other when they have no one else to bully.

toot · 09/09/2003 17:28

Thanks Boe. I await the day the turn on each other, I hope I`m there to see it .

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newgirl · 12/09/2003 14:38

hi there toot - the book is Stop Thinking and Start Living, Richard Carlson, Thorsons, £7.99. It would be great if you like it; it worked for me no end.

its not about 'putting on a brave face' - he does say stuff about identifying what is really bad in your life and removing it from your life - and when you do, forget about it!

take care, new girl

toot · 13/09/2003 22:01

Thanks newgirl. In my haste to get the book, I used Amazon and came up with Stop worrying, start Living by Dale Carnegie. Ive started reading this so will press on (Dyslexic so itll take a little while) and then I will definately try yours.

OP posts:
Podmog · 14/09/2003 07:08

Message withdrawn