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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Opinions and advice sort on my situation

109 replies

toot · 23/05/2003 14:19

I had first child in 97. He came early (7wks) so it was all a bit scary. I started NCT lessons but had only done 2 when baby arrived so didnt really bond with any one. After 6 months that were quiet grim (at home for 1st time ever, knew no one except for my elderly neighbours, that sort of thing)I decided to get out there and meet people.

I joined church tods and met J.and B. We got on quiet well and inspite J having habbit of lecturing about everything (from how well her ds slept to the MMR jab) things rubbed along.I detected that J and B got on better than me and J and would often find that I was excluded from conversations because I hadnt been at a particular outing or coffee morning etc but I didnt really mind. I had enough contact not to feel isolated and I had also made friends with C another new mum to the tods group. After a time we were a 4.

Js lecturing and excluding manner grew over a period of time and I can think of many occasions where shed greet my arrival at Bs house with phrases like "oh! didnt expect to see YOU here" or tell me she was busy if I asked her out etc only to find she`d gone to the zoo etc with B.

I gradually became closer friends with C to the point that I asked her to be God mother to my second son and she asked me to be the G.M to her 3rd. I continued to see and be good friends with B who is the "salt of the earth" but over time, reduced contact with J as she always made me feel unwanted or uncomfortable.

My second child was born in 2001, also premature and after a vomit ridden 7 month pregnancy. J and B also had babies 5 weeks either side of mine. To cap my miserable pregnancy, 6 weeks after the baby came my Dad died at only age 58.

B and C sent me cards, offers of help etc but the only mention made of my absence from our group by J was in a telephone conversation when I invited her to my sons baptism. She said "in the nicest possible way, WE have got use to you not being around". I was very upset.

Last Sept Js son, Bs son and my son all started in reception class at the same school. At the school gate, it was all I could do to get J to acknowledge my exsistance some days. She would often not even say good morning or look in my direction and if I ever made a point of making her notice me she`d say "sorry didnt see you".

Our boys get on well and things continued with J and I only seeing each other at school or in the company of B or C at tods.

At Christmas J had asked what we 4 were going to do about christmas gifts for the children. (The year before we had stopped our usual practice of buying them all gifts as there were now 10 kids and B & C weren`t as well off as J and I). I told J that I would fit in with what ever the others wanted to do. J said that every one was not buying gifts this year and thats how we left it.

The following week at tods, I half heard a conversation between J and C about organising christmas gifts. Privately I asked J what had changed the arrangements and she said she had decided to do things on an individual basis with C,B and I. I asked (jokingly) did that mean buying their children gifts but missing out my two - she said yes. She also pointed at my little one and said why would she buy him a gift, she never sees him and he meant nothing to her. I left.

B was upset and tried to patch things up for everybody.J said she had been misunderstood but I knew different.

Since then I have gone out of my way to avoid J. Ironically, for a while she made great efforts to say hello of a morning and engage me in conversation but I didnt bite. B and her continued to do the sort of things they had before eg take each others kids home from school, take their youngest (same age as my youngest) to clubs ect so I made a real effort to get to know the other mums and their kids so as not to appear to be "billy no mates ".

This actually back fired a little as B has recently told C that I`m not around that much and that I seem to have "readjusted my friendship group" I have not a clue what that means.
I had hoped that B would reolise that I avoided her only when she was chatting to J and that when J is not there I happily chat to B .

The final twist in my sorry tail came recently when I was asked by C to go to soft play outing with her and her youngest 2 children (to celebrate one of their birthdays).
My oldest asked why J and Bs sons had been asked to the birthday party but he had not. I said their wasnt a party, just a soft play visit for the younger ones. My son was so sure it was a party I checked with C only to find that J and B (plus all their children) were going for tea at C house after school. C said it was not a party,just tea with a Birthday cake.

I told her I was hurt a/ that my oldest was not asked to either the soft play outing during the day or the tea party in the evening and b/that obviously she had felt J and I would not mix at a social function for a 3 y.o so had bumped me.
C replied that J and B go together as a set.

We havent spoken since. I dont feel she was the person I thought she was.

I continue to see B every week for lunch and our youngest play.

What do you think - too sensitive? stupidly chucking away friends for un important reasons? or did I basically do right.

OP posts:
marble · 02/06/2003 18:11

good for you, toot

toot · 13/07/2003 17:58

Back again,dont really know what to do so typing this seemed a better option than tears.

Just come in after sitting in sun with husband to find small typed note pushed through door. B has written me a letter saying maintaining friendship with me is causing her stress. She wants to stop regular meetups and hopes that a more superficial friendship can be maintained for the sake of the children.

She says she wont talk to me about it and has asked me to write to her if I want to reply.

The trigger for this seems to be my making a joke that her not coming with her kids into my sunday school class was because I wasn`t very good when I first agreed to help out last week. The notes the regular teacher had given me were all about friendship and B says they had made her feel uncomfortable.

My boys and I had been invited to her 2nd daughters birthday party in 2 weeks time, what shall I do?

Feeling very upset, now I have no one and all because I took exception to J.saying my smallest son meant nothing to her.

OP posts:
lou33 · 13/07/2003 18:17

Toot I have no good advice, but just wanted to say how awful for you, you must feel terribly hurt. I am outraged on your behalf that one person can cause so much trouble in your life. I know it is of no help whatsoever to how you feel right now, but eventually you will realise these people did nothing to enhance your life, and that life will be better without them one day.

Jimjams · 13/07/2003 19:04

Don't go- when "friends" start causing this much trouble they are no longer worth it.

clucks · 13/07/2003 19:17

I really feel for you. Clearly, these people are causing you a lot of stress too and perhaps it would be best to maintain a superficial relationship with all of them (for the sake of the children) and look for friendships elsewhere.

Having said that, I am a Norman no-friends and am already scared of the school gates after your experience and I have pre-schoolers.

I can't believe this kind of school-girl nastiness happens to grown women and I'm very scared, especially as I have a tact-less sense of humour and upset people easily. Will stick to mumsnet, haven't upset anyone here.

bossykate · 13/07/2003 22:04

hello toot, they are making you so miserable it is really not worth it any more. anyone calling themselves a christian (i assume so from your references to sunday school) should definitely be behaving better. sheesh. you will feel so much better when they are out of your life. you will meet new people. best of luck and i hope everything looks brighter very soon

gingernut · 13/07/2003 23:28

Toot, I agree with the others, these people aren't worth it as they are making you unhappy. I would suggest you put your energies into forming some new friendships. How about taking your dss to some new activities? You might meet some new people through that way. So sorry you have been treated so badly.

Kazziegirl · 14/07/2003 08:10

Toots - agree with the others. I think it's time to call it a day on this "friendship". Hold your head up high - continue social pleasantaries - "Good Morning's" etc... and leave it at that. As for the party in two weeks perhaps write a reply to her letter saying that you feel under the circumstances it would be difficult for you to attend and that yes, you agree it would be better to have a superficial friendship as she mentioned. I'm sure once all of this is done you will begin to feel heaps better. You shouldn't have to pussyfoot around with friends. Next - try and find ways of making new friends. I've made heaps of friends via the internet, meeting up with local Mums. I hope this helps and remember - it's their loss if they don't have you as a friend.

toot · 14/07/2003 10:42

I did write a note yesterday evening. I said my comment had only been a jokey way of acknowledging her. I told her I thought her timing (2nd anniversary of dads death) and her means of severing links with me (letter) were very cold and hurtful. I briefly explained the ways I thought I had tried to make it easy for her never to have to choose between me or J and ended by saying I didn`t think the boys would attend the Birthday party.

I was prepared for her to blank me this morning but instead she took the opportunity to say couldn`t the children be brought to the party by another person. She said my note had made her feel guilty and that perhaps we should talk things over before we break things off etc.

I left the playground tearful again. It has been good to get these support messages though - thanks. I will calm down a bit now and come back on later to chat/answer some of your kind points.

OP posts:
Metrobaby · 14/07/2003 11:46

Toot, I'm so so sorry that you feel this way.

I think you need to sit down and ask yourself honestly if your friendship with B makes you feel happy. Are having to watch what you say and what you do? Are you finding when you speak with B, you are automatically wondering about C and J?? If so, I really really think this frienship is not worth your time and energy. From what you have written, you sound like a sensitive, caring person - there are other potential friends out there who would love to have a person like you around. Why bother with B,C or J if they make you feel so unhappy?

At first it will be hard. But as others have said below it WILL get better - and it will take time - but you will meet other friends - better ones. All it takes is a friendly hello, and a passing comment to another Mum !

In the meantime, I would just say hello to B,C and J at the school gates - and only IF you happen to catch their eye, and leave it at that. If B and C want to re-aqaint themselves with you, they will do so - but it will probably take time.

Good luck Toot.

ThomCat · 14/07/2003 13:16

Toot - sorry you're having such a rotten time. All I can say is that when I 'freed myself' from a friendship where i was the only one making the effort etc I felt so much better for it eventually and it opened me up to new friendships that wouldn't have happened had I still been concentrating my efforts on a friend who didn't deserve it. I grieved for that friend for quite a while but have since realised by the strength of the friendships I have now that i'm so much better off. I hope you'll be saying the same thing yourself soon.

toot · 14/07/2003 13:51

You are all so kind, I wish you all lived in north Bristol!

Now the tears have stopped, I have decided that this is not what I want from friends.
B was the last of this group of friends to drop me due to J. My husband keeps saying things like clean break and no more loose ends etc I think that is true.

You are right metrobaby I have been wondering about J & C when with B and now I feel that will stop.
You put it so well Thomcat when you say you grieved for your friend, I do have a feeling like that about this aspect of my life, but I will bounce back.
Jimjams were not going to the party, I followed Kazzie girls advice and sent a note. I will/am developing friends with other mums that I have met recently via a music group my 2y.o is in. As Gingernut and Kazzie girl recommend I will keep trying this group (and others) for more normal friendships . Bossy Kate, lou33 and clucks, thanks for the support (especially the smile) and clucks, dont let my experience make you afraid. All school gates cant be packed with the 35 y.o women in gangs like mine seems to be.

OP posts:
ThomCat · 14/07/2003 15:24

You're going to fine mate and yes you do grieve. Tthis particular ex friend would crop up in dreams quite often and a year or so after our last ever conversation I still felt sad. It took me awhile - we'd been friends for years and years but I really don't miss her know and think, truthfully, that it's was for the best. She was never the friend we all deserve to have and now in her place I have 2 of the bestest girlfriends i could ever ask for, as well as the friends i had before anyway. I know you'll be OK, just remember it's OK that you're upset and will miss what you think you two might have had but that you ARE better off without people like that n your life.

crossma · 14/07/2003 16:03

Toot I am coming in here really late in the day only just seen this posting. I think everyone has given lots of really good opinions and as has been said before this/these "friends" are not worth it LIFE IS TOO SHORT though I understand you just want friends and it is difficult when you see these people all the time. Comfort yourself with the fact that these people can't really be true friends to anyone really and when you do find a true friend it will be worth several so called "friends". As for your children treat them to your time which is better than having time with children with such parents probably not making sense as always rushing! Just really wanted to say I feel for you having been in similar situation though not as involved years ago and even though I still hurt and can't understand how people can be so mean have managed to think they are not worthy of my genuine friendship and you must too... wish we all lived in your area and could be seen to be in and out of each others homes just to show them, people like that would be so jealous as they just want to be in with the so-called in crowd and never grow up.

crossma · 14/07/2003 16:04

PS I'm sure there was a very similar posting to yours some time ago which again shows you are not alone! Some children just become big kids and will never grow up.

willow2 · 14/07/2003 21:33

Nasty, nasty mums - go to your rooms!

Toot - may I suggest a favourite remedy of mine? Whack them with bricks.

No, seriously, waste no more time on these pathetic, self-obsessed bullies. This little vendetta is probably the only thing of "interest" that they have in their boring, sad lives - so don't rise to their playground tactics. Even if you did manage to re-establish your friendship with B how could it ever be the same? Surely you would spend the whole time walking on egg shells and wondering when the next visit to Coventry was scheduled for? I know it seems impossible when your life revolves around your children, but you will find new friends. I was down in Bristol the other weekend (my nephew's fifth birthday) and have never seen so many families out and about - so wipe Jealous J, Beastly B and Cowardly C from your address book, grasp the nettle and get out to all the places potential best friends might be lurking.

willow2 · 14/07/2003 21:34

Oh yes, and post on Mumsnet to arrange a mumsnet meet up down your way - I'm pretty sure there's quite a lot of members from the Bristol area so you could end up with more friends than you know what to do with.

Kazziegirl · 15/07/2003 07:51

Toots - I so think you have done the right thing - however hard it may seem at the moment. Hope things at the school gates are okay today - hold your head up high and don't let them get to you. Thinking of you.

CAM · 15/07/2003 10:23

What wonderful advice from Willow for you Toots, hope you can manage to rise above all this unpleasantness (I'm not very good at dealing with it when people are being nasty either)

beetroot · 15/07/2003 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

toot · 15/07/2003 12:03

Thanks everyone, I did sign up to the recent Bristol mumsnetter meet up. I dont know if it makes me sad or not but I used another name so that anyone who met me wouldnt feel pressured to be my mate (cringe with embarrasement). The meet up sort of disintegrated that time but perhaps Ill be brave enough to go to the next one.

School gate situation ok (ish). B upset me yesterday morning by stopping me to say she thought the boys should go to her daughters Birthday party. As I had been forbidden to reply to her letter in any other form except for another letter,I wasn`t expecting that.

B said that after reading my letter she wanted to ring me,or come round, to explain the reasons she felt she had to drop me and see how else the boys could come to the party if I wasn`t going to bring them!

Later I felt that it was unfair of her to take the first opportunity she could to get somthing off her chest when I wasn`t to contact her.

I jotted this thought down in a note to her and said I didnt want her call as I needed supportive friends not an explanation of why I wasnt friend material. I ended by saying that my children are the most precious and perfect entities in my life and that if defending my smallest son against J had cost me three friends then I saw that as a fair trade.

At gate yesterday evening B and J stayed in Bs car until their boys came out from school so I didnt have to face any uncomfortable situations. I never see B in the mornings but well see how it goes this p.m. Thanks again all of you . Its nice to feel other grown ups understand.

OP posts:
toot · 15/07/2003 12:10

Beetroot, I didnt refresh before I posted last note so didnt see your kind offer - sorry. I`ve been typing on and off for a couple of hours (in between chasing ds2 around house/garden). .Perhaps next time?

OP posts:
bossykate · 15/07/2003 12:16

good for you, toot, well done.

CAM · 15/07/2003 12:55

"explain the reasons why she felt she had to drop me" Well done Toots for getting your self-esteem together enough not to give her the opportunity to do this! My view is "er, no thanks, don't bother, I don't want to know"
Sometimes I wonder what planet some people live on.

CAM · 15/07/2003 13:00

And please don't worry about meeting other mumsnetters, I've been to meetings when in a similar less-than-confident-state and everyone was extremely friendly (even when I admitted to being CAM)