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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can an emotional abuser really change?

110 replies

fairyliquid123 · 26/09/2009 22:24

Hi - my H is away for the weekend, so I have the chance to get on the comupter without him seeing and could do with a bit of advice. I have posted my situation on Mumsnet a little while ago, so some of you may recognise me me. One MN suggested I start my own thread - so here goes!

We've been married 17 years and were married within a year of meeting. H was really full-on and proposed within 3 months. As soon as I accepted, he started to tell me I wasn't allowed to wear short skirts and low tops and would peer down everything I wore to make sure he couldn't see anything. Polo necks, button-top blouses and jeans became the only options. We moved 200 miles away near his family and I didn't keep in touch with my friends because he didn't seem to want me to. I occassionally went out with my colleagues, but it usually caused trouble. We have never had any joint friends as I find he makes little effort and has a reason for disliking most people we know. He has always been jealous of other men and makes comments about what other men are like and what they would like to do to me and calls local shopkeepers my "boyfriends" in front of the kids. When I go out, he asks if I "got off" with anyone. He became increasingly difficult and rude with my parents and really upset them. Now they won't come to visit us because they find his behaviour intimidating. However he feels an entitlement to their giving us money for things. He has always been very critical of many things I do - the house is never tidy enough, the kids are scruffy, I have made too much/too little tea, I eat too healthily etc. This has increasing impacted on the kids, as he has critised their table manners, friends, attitude to homework/helping round the house. He is particularly sensitive to noise - I gulp when I drink, make too much noise eating certain foods, I am too noisy when brushing my teeth. He has occassionaly put me down infront of people - e.g. telling me not to laugh, as what I said wasn't funny. On our own, he frequently tells me that what I have said was not interesting or makes a very disinterested "oh really" or "that's very nice for you" reply. If I complain about any of these, I can't take a joke or he turns it round to make it look that I am at fault. Occassionally, he picks on things he knows I am sensitive about and makes really underhand comments. I didn't get an internal job recently and he commented on how embarrassed I would be to go into work because everyone would be laughing at me. He once made a list of all the things he doesn't like about me and told me them. When I got upset, he told me I couldn't take a joke but I knew full well the things were true.

A few months ago he had been very low for 6 months, with bad mood swings, refusing to eat when he wasn't happy and highly critical. The behaviour was also targeted at the children with lots of shouting and arguaments, anger and criticisms. He also did a few physical acts on by youngest son - biting his finger and drawing blood, prodding, kicking, yanking, grasping arms. I had enough and, after several attempts, finally got him to listen to me. He moved into the spare bedroom, went to the Dr and got anti-depressants. The behaviour continued but once the drugs started working, his moods started to improve but the underlying comments continued. We then went on holiday with his Mum, who is very like him, and he was surprised (not shocked) by his mother's childish and frankly appauling behaviour (she assaulted my SIL). Since then, for the last month, his behaviour is noticably better. His mood has improved greatly. However, I can still see the old him under the surface. It's almost as if he has refined it a bit to look more acceptable - or maybe I'm being cynical. He's desperate to save the marriage and I'm going to relate on my own because of our difficult relationship. However he keeps saying it's a waste of money and I'm having to force my need to go. I am wearing lower tops and tighter clothes and he is making comments, but not stopping me. He is largely keeping his cool with DS but occassionally snaps, as opposed to often. He insisted I drove my DS to a club last weekend when he heard I had agreed to take DS's friend, who he doesn't like. Later he then insisted that he drove when he heard more friends were joining the lift because "I'm not having you drive 4 boys, you won't be able to do it". Both conversations were infont of the kids and I felt controlled. He is desperate to move back into our bedroom and I am holding out. However it is becoming harder as his behaviour improves to find a reason why not.

This weekend is great. I left the washing on the line all night, the kids in their PJ's this morning and had breakfast at 11am. All usually commented on. My DS, who is 11, has said it's great that we are not being controlled and has a friend over now for a sleep over. My other DS said he isn't missing him and has said he hates him to his face several times lately. He often shirks from him.

Have any of you had experiences of EA's changing behaviour and did it last? I'm feeling guilty at the moment,as I am planning to leave. He is trying to improve but I feel I have moved on already and really don't want to continue in the relationship. I feel I have less justification for leaving, whereas before his behaviour was really unacceptable. My relate counsellor says I don't need a reason to leave but I find that reasoning hard to accept if I am breaking up a family.

Sorry for the long post - but I feel my resolve slipping.

OP posts:
autumnlight · 09/11/2009 09:31

Speaking from my experience and what I have read - an abuser can only change if he recognises, acknowledges and really wants to do something about his behaviour towards others. From my personal situation, my narcissistic h has never, in 10 years of marriage, ever apologised for all the abuse, acknowledged that he has done wrong, and has always even denied that he did anything physically abusive to me - even though I had years of it, and that has now turned into emotional abuse now, manipulation financially, and there is always the bully lurking in him. I should have got out of my situation years ago - but he eroded my self-esteem and self-belief until it was non-existent. So - no, from my experience, unlikely to change.

fairyliquid123 · 10/11/2009 11:19

I think that I am a bit wobbly because certain things have happened within his family that have made him realise that things aren't really right with him and his upbrining and he is making some attempt at change - although not enough. I haven't ledt partly through guilt and partly fear of the unknown. I feel guilty that my marriage hasn't worked even though I know he is mainly to blame. Perhaps if I had been stronger/less accepting I could have made him change. What if he does change now and I have separated him from his kids? I also hate large change. I don;t know if I will have a job in 2 weeks, so the thought of not knowing if I will have a house or full residence with the kids is terrifying. I am listening to the advice - believe me - and am much further down the route of leaving than 1 year ago, when I realised the state of our marriage/family. The advice is invaluable but it takes time to plan and decide on when to leave. I have been doing lots of planning and now have a car, certain finances sorted and legal knowledge to walk out shortly. What I don't have is a guarenteed job and that is essential for me to feel ready I guess. Please don't feel I don;t listen because I do. But you are right to sense a dislike of change and fear and I do over analyse things - because it is such a life-changing decision for us.

OP posts:
violet101 · 10/11/2009 16:00

I can't help feeling that NanaNina's words are a little harsh. No Mother (or very few thankfully!) stay, knowing that their children have or are suffering - its because we care so much about getting everything right that we stall......... and if someone has told you over and over how useless you are, you stop believing how good you are! Its incomprehensible why when we all seem to be reasonable adults - but destroying self esteem just seems to be a very strong tool, particularly well wielded by a man.

I'm sorry FL, but I wouldn't buy it. He has had plenty of time to reflect and discuss this sooner - it just sounds like what I've just fallen for - Mr Nice Guy on the face of it and secretly plotting behind my back. But I think I'm pretty damaged now and wouldn't trust anyone!!!

Please proceed with caution - sort the job out because I know how important it is to you... another couple of weeks and you'll know and then you can stop thinking 'what if' and make a definate plan forwards...

Out of interest, does you H acknowledge how unhappy he's making you AND the kids... that would be a big thing for me.

Thank you for your response over my 'wobble'....

Fingers crossed we both get our jobs!

Lemonylemon · 10/11/2009 16:17

I've only read the OP and my immediate thought was "get the hell out". Why do you fear the unknown? There's nothing to fear. I hope you get the job. If you and your DCs are much more relaxed and happy with him not around, what is the problem with leaving and taking the DCs with you? Or asking him to leave?

FWIW, I don't think that emotional abusers can REALLY change. I think at lot of it is in their nature.

fairyliquid123 · 10/11/2009 18:07

Hi - thanks again for the advise. Violet - we are really in a similar situation. Just you are a little further on. You're story is so like mine. It is the self belief that causes a problem. H has eroded it and my job situation isn;t helping. After 17 years in one organisation, I just don't know what's out there or if I'm up to it. Hopefully it won;t come to that but it may. If I don;t get the interview next week, I'll have to try a lower level job and if that doesn't work, I'm out. It all undermines confidence. So I do feel very low and tired at the moment. Perhaps I should just take redundancy, ask H to move out and start afresh! - sell the house. Invent a new me with the kids.

OP posts:
NanaNina · 10/11/2009 23:37

Fairyliquid - Violet is right - my words were a little harsh and I'm sorry about that. I do know (from personal experience) and from many years working with women in abusive relationships how difficult it is to leave these kind of relationships. I think one of the problems is that the emotional abuse lowers your self esteem to rock bottom and as you say you are tired and low at the moment. I think these men more than half know this and it works in their favour.

You talk of feeling guilty of separating him from his kids, but if I am reading you right your kids are telling you that they are unhappy and it is small wonder. The thing I couldn't really get over and I think what prompted my rather intemperate post was hearing that he had bitten a child's finger and drew blood - that is child abuse. There is no other word for it, and who knows what else could happen. Children in this situation will not always show their fear of these kind of men and will sometimes even appear to be fond on them, but this is just a front, in truth they are afraid, very afraid, but somehow have to try to appease these kind of parents, almost as a form of protection for themselves.

Anyway I do hope that you get the job and that one way or another you are able to move on to a more peaceful life.

autumnlight · 11/11/2009 09:33

I understand how you feel. My ten year marriage has eroded my self-confidence, self-belief and self-esteem. During this time I have been a SAHM (not that I could have got a job with the effect the abuse had on me) and it is not easy to take that step to the future when it is so long since being financially independent. I do not think an abuser can genuinely transform their personality, therefore, I do not have any peace of mind with for the situation I am in.

Lemonylemon · 11/11/2009 10:03

I know that this is a cliche and I hope that I'm not going to come across as patronising to those of you in a dreadful situation.

There are books that you should read. All of you. On other threads posters have recommended books about abusive partners. I think Attilathemeerkat amongst others, has recommended some.

But here are a couple that don't deal with the cause of low self-esteem, rather, they will try to boost your self-belief. "You Can Heal Your Life", "The Power Within" both by Louise Hay - if you can get beyond the Americanisms, the will help you. There's also "Stop Making Excuses and Start Living Your Life" by Dr. Phil McGrath (of Oprah fame). There's also a very old book which my Dad used to read called "Psycho Cybernetics" by someone called Malz (I think). The language is a bit clinical, but what he has to say is valuable.

I hope that this does help a bit, the first step on the ladder is one that you can make yourself. I am one of the lucky ones, I've been in situations like some of you, but have got out.....

violet101 · 11/11/2009 14:00

FL, I am aiming much lower job wise - I used to have a dream job/salary many years ago... when I tried to return to work the industry had moved on so much, I couldn't commit as much when I had a young family.

So having come to terms with that (and it was a kick in the teeth) I set my sights lower just so that I can be good at something else... As long as I have a steady job and some kind of income (they are all rubbish in the SW!!) and be there for my kids, then its enough for me. By temping, I've found a niche that interests me, have got some new training/experience under my belt and is something I seem to be quite good at. So at least when I go home, I know I was useful somewhere else.

So dismiss nothing - what will be, will be xx

fairyliquid123 · 14/11/2009 12:14

NanaNina - apology accepted. I undersatand you saying what you did and I kick myself for not having as strong a reaction as I should to his behaviour. But my eyes have been opened over the last few months and I see it for what it is. My boundaries slipped and I accepted (not the best word) things that I should not have. Not any more. But he is behaving much better at the moment, so we can all have a smoother ride until I sort my job out or at least know where I stand with it. I am also challenging him at lot more and will not tolerate any behaviour I see towards the kids.

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