is incest neccessarily always bad?... sorry this is sensitive.

[namechanging2008]

been told today that some very close family members are involved in a relationship.

i started off thinking my god this is so wrong, but feel they talked me round.

sorry for namechange, im totally at sea now.

they are very closely related, same age, both consensual, both determined their love will be enough, they know it means they cant have children.

i cant believe it. they want my support.

i dont know what to do.

i want to tell them its ok, but is it?

Im on the fence. The only chance they would have would be to up sticks and start a whole new life together somewhere else, away from all family ties. I cant say their relationship is 'wrong' (although we know in the eyes of the law it is)but I think its wrong of them to ask their family to accept it and support it.

Their troubled and complicated past has obviously thrown them together as 2 kindred spirits..

It is only wrong between consenting adults who make their own choice and are not abused, manipulated or coerced because society feels that it is wrong.

There is also the issue of repeated inbreeding causing genetic problems in children - not an issue if you are going to ensure there will BE no children.

also, sorry, am a bit erratic at the moment. they dont see it as wrong, we didnt grow up in a "normal" situation.

namechanging2008, I would let them get on with it.

tbh, you are the biggest casualty! they are in it together, it was their mutual decision and they have their new love to comfort them in the face of any minor negatives! oh yeah, being brother and sister!!

When did you find out about it? very recently?

Maybe in a few weeks it will feel less awful. I am not going to say that it wouldn't shock me in your shoes, but I think I could eventually get my head around it. I hope it's not so weird for you though, that you end up on the 'outskirt' of the family, bearing the burden of the entire family's taboo on your shoulders.

You can't do that, if you can't stop them, you have to say, sod our conventions and sod our social mores. they certainly have their basis in logic. 99% of the time incest is bad, but reading your family's story, I think from the comfort of my sofa 500 miles away I can give my blessing. VERY easy for me to type I know. I hope it's not going to be a really HEAVY piece of family baggage for you though

hecate... i understand what you mean, i cant ensure there wont be any children myself but they have thought it through and made a decision.

ive never seen them so adult or focused.

i just feel like ive not looked after them properly. whatever that means.

Putting the legal aspects of it aside, in the situation you hve described there is nothing 'wrong' with it. They love each other and they make each other hppy.

It is wrong because...
They will regret it.
Pure and simple. Because of the social stigma, because of the bar/dangers about having children.
Because of the upset and horror that it will cause in others who find out.

If they want to go live on an island where no one knows them they MIGHT get away with it, but they'll have to hide their secret or face the most severe social stigma.

And like any other love relationship, it's almost certainly doomed to failure even if it feels like "true love" right now.

So they will end up feeling confused and probably ashamed about it later. Who wants to look back on a relationship with those feelings?

I think all you can do is bite your tongue, wait for the inevitable fall-out and try to help them to pick up the pieces then.

It is a deep societal taboo, which probably grows out the serious biological consequences of siblings reproducing. I guess the law follows nature in this regard, because it can't let people who don't intend to have children "get away" with sex, as there could be sibling couples who did have children anyway.

I understand that you want to see them happy, but it is probably best if they have some therapy and education about the forces (powerful ones) behind their attraction, which might help them see it for what it is: an understandable and well-documented instant feeling of being "soulmates" because they are recognising themselves in each other etc, and haven't had the time together as children which squashes sexual feelings between siblings.

maggie... thank you so much, that is exactly how i feel. or want to feel... but will they be ok? we have no family worth commenting on, im ok, im just worried for them.

im their family, they so need me to be happy for them.

It's definitely not your fault namechanging. YOu are their sister. If there is blame to be apportioned, then it is going to fall at your parents' feet. NOT that there's much point apportioning out blame at this late stage.

The bottom line I guess is that they weren't together enough as children to feel like siblings. They don't feel like siblings. And that is not your fault.

Also, social services (?) who decided to separate twins??? That seems an odd decision NOW.

bitoffun... i suggested counselling, they (understandably from the past) will have nothing to do with counsellors or "authority".

its been going on for a year,they say - thats longer than ive known either of them live in one place, let alone have a relationship. i love them both so much. they are amazing, they've dealt with so much.

sorry, must go see DS... thank you so much for all your views, will come back after settled DS.

You say

"ive never seen them so adult or focused."

I know it's so weird for you that it's right off the scale of normal experiences to draw from, but all the same, maybe this will, in some strange way be good for them. Give them love. Fill in a gap. Build up their confidence.

My guess (htf would I really know!) is that they'll split up. And yes, they'll always know that they 'did' incest. But people always rationalise what they do that others perceive to be wrong. So maybe they will find it reasonably easy to live with the knowledge that they've been in an incestuous relationship.

What about you though? would you feel embarrassed to talk about this with friends in real life? I would tbh. It's just not something that most people can relate to, and a lot of people will judge harshly.

They are two children with a very strong bond (being twins) who have found mutual comfort and support in each other after a messed up childhood. It may sound wierd but it is probably good for them and gives them the comfort they need, like twin babies who snuggle up to each other at night.

They've just added a sexual element because they are adults with sexual needs as well as emotional ones.

Does that make sense?

maggie... ss tried to keep at least one child with my mum, she rejected my sister but wanted to care for my brother.

sometimes she coped, sometimes she didnt. thats why they were separated, i dont think it would happen now, it was different back then i think.

This must be a bloody nightmare for you - sorry you are going through this.

I don't think you can 'stop' them - and being judgemental won't help (as I think you are aware from your post). You've obviously all been through the mill in childhood and this makes their situation totally understandable - if none-the-less shocking for you (and the majority of the general public).

TBH I think you do need to pass them on the info about GSA to make them aware of it and perhaps discourage anyone getting sterlised incase this is just 'a stage' (sorry, that sounds so patronising I don't mean it to).

I don't know if there are resources/support groups for people in your situation/theirs which might offer more advice?

I tend to agree with Doha.

The relationship is a result of confused feelings and their background but they are not hurting anyone and they clearly understand that there is no way they could have offspring.

Trying to stop the relationship will probably cause all sorts of hassle for all of you.
I should imagine that this relationship will run it's course and will end.

As you can see from other posts that this is a well documented situation. It's sad that these feelings have arisen as it's going to cause distress for them. I would suggest being there for them when it inevitably comes to an end and try to help them reconstruct a normal sibling relationship in the aftermath.

God, poor you and poor them,

I disagree with the posters saying it could be good for them In the short term maybe, it may feel good for them but it is illegal and taboo and society will not let them get on with it.

You say they accept that there will be no kids, presumably before they got together they would have accepted that there couldn't be a sexual relationship with a sibling?

They are not hurting anyone now but if they decide to have a child it would be very bad. It isn't a guarantee that there woud be anything wrong - they may feel it is worth the risk...

Is there any sort of counselling for this GSA?

If they understood the scientific basis of what is happening to them I suppose it wouldn't make a difference?

I don't know what I would do in your shoes (or theirs) If they are determined to be together moving away should definitely be on the cards; the whole family will suffer when it gets out.

Its not right and legally wrong but its not like they are going around mugging people, they are hurting no one but themselves, tell them your not sure where you stand regarding your feelings but as family you will stick by them as much as you feel you can. Atleast they are being sensible regarding children, and it might be a good idea for them to move from the area where no one will know them as anything other than a couple and leave it that way, as I feel the backlash they could recieve from this could be really bad in the wrong hands.

I disagree with all those who say that the relationship will run its course and will end. There's just no way of knowing that. Plus these two people have a bond with each other anyway - siblings invariably love each other and that doesn't run its course, so given these siblings love each other in a deeper way it's possible, likely even, that won't change either.

Op - the fact that they have chosen to tell you of their relationship is a clear indication of how much they value you and trust you.

Don't judge them, they will have enough of that to come in the future. You don't have to be over the moon for them but you can still support them, iyswim.

Do suggest they seek some counselling (however hard that may be for them) if only to help them come to terms with their feelings. Perhaps suggest it along the lines of that you want them to be sure, because if the relationship goes wrong then the sibling bond will be lost as well..

It's easy enough to say that it's wrong, but reality is that if they want to conduct a sexual relationship there's not much anyone can do to stop them. At least they've been up front about it with you.

Good luck xx

Apparently it is very very common for close family members,particularly siblings,who didn't grow up together,to feel as though they are falling in love when they meet up as teens or adults.It is so intense and the natural love gets a bit distorted.It must be terrible for them to have these very real feelings that they can't get over.I am not sure who they can talk to given the legal issue,maybe they can look online and see if there is anyone who understands who they could talk to in confidence?

As they are at pains not to have children then I don't think it's shocking or wrong. Illegal yes, but who are we to judge their situation?
I had a friend in similar circumstances who remained a spinster in the true sense of the word because of the unspeakable love she had for her brother. She was so sad and ended up doing something terrible because she felt so ashamed (even though nothing had actually happened) and alone
We all seek love for a whole host of crazy mixed up reasons. If they have found peace with each other then so be it. There are so many people in violent, destructive, abusive or just plain unhappy relationships. They are not.

However I do think you may need some kind of help so that you can come to terms with it op?
I wish you well.

I cant imangine how you must feel just now, and I agree that although it is "wrong" in the eyes of the law, and most people, they are not harming anyone else (apart from you )

My main concern is this thread though, you dont know who is reading it, people that arent members of MN, that may have other agendas. That would concern me. A lot.

I would really really consider having it pulled, just incase. I know its suppused to be annonymous, but well, you never really know do you.

There are twins in my life and knowing of the particular and uncanny nature of some twin relationships I can imagine your siblings are possibly the most sumblimely happy people together.

I can not begin to imagine the depth of concern regarding sociological views and the restraints of law In the UK!

I'm assuming you are posting from within the UK OP?

Are you or your siblings aware that in France, incest is legal? In Sweden, incest and marriage between two siblings sharing at least one parent is legal. These are the only two countries in Europe but I'm sure there are many more worldwide.

Understandably, creating children is still restricted.

If your siblings would be prepared to move, a whole other future could be possible for them

Incest is legal? do you mean between siblings only?

I really don't see a problem as long as they are of a similar age and aren't coercing each other

The actual "ins and outs" of anyone's relationships other than my own makes me queasy anyway. I put it down to a genuine lack of imagination on my part. I am totally disinterested in another's affaires of the heart or bedroom.
Makes things a whole hell of a lot easier