Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

So he is looking for some attention from me?
He needs to feel 'involved' in my life and still part of this house? Because, tbh, he has nobody else close to him, he has cut them all off. Am I then, still to be considered, his main source of supply? Does this mean if I tell him to piss off and stop bugging me he will still see this as attention?
Jesus this is bloody tough going.

hi,
sorry, there was a time lag between when I wrote and posted that last post.

Objectively, I think that his behaviour smacks of aggression rather than kindness. I dont think buying you the clothes has anything to do with <span class="italic">you</span>, but rather it is to do with feeding his own self-image of being a wonderful person, and the notion that you are a little on the crazy side. He is re-writing history, of course: he has <span class="italic">always</span> cared about you and your clothes (in his mind) and you <span class="line-through">the loon</span> have only just noticed this!! When I say he is aggressive, I mean his boundary-pushing. It was <span class="italic">your</span> day with the kids. Your nice lovely day out that he encroached upon. It is disgraceful that he is <span class="italic">ignoring</span> the fact that some major changes have taken place in your relationship. It chills me that he is behaving so far off the spectrum of what constitutes normal behaviour. NOrmal would be for him to accept that you are splitting up, be hurt ,angry even, but realise that that is the way things are. I dont think hes in denial. I dont think hes trying to win you back- that would involve some real soul-searching and discussing things with you. I think hes just trying to mess with your mind.
Try to draw up a list of boundaries i.e things that are acceptable to you, and present them to him.
Other people may be able to better advise you on the law and your rights, as I have no experience of this.

Yes just quick post as off to work but I think boundaries and his inability to accept yours are central here.
He still wants to be in your life becuase then he can see what you are doing. He won't be able to bear the idea that you are getting on with stuff without him controlling it.
Buying you clothes is a creepy prime example of controlling you - he gets to choose what you wear and expects gratitude. He absolutely can't understand that this is no longer appropriate behaviour. Frankly he probably never will get it - as you say, he is preserving his own version of reality and also making sure that you do not have an independant existence.
He feels entitled to your life. Even while saying he accepts the marrage is over.
The only way you will be able to stop him turning up whenever he pleases is when you get the legal access terms drawn up. Suspect that fairly soon after that point he will lose interest in you and the DCs as it's out of his control - remains to be seen though. The main hope is that he finds a new victim.
Oops sorry that wasn't a quick post was it!

Consequently he is in denial of the truth that his cushy number with his all so tolerent wife is at an end

But it isn't, is it???

He is still controlling you, but in a new house!

Of course he is ignoring your wishes. Why wouldn't he? What has happened to make him take any notice of you? You got an order against him, but nothing happens to him when he turns up at your house whenever he wants to , or when he barges in on your days out.

Why are you allowing this?

Are you worried about what may happen if you actually do put your foot down?

He hears the words you say...and reads the paper with the order on it ....but NOTHING HAPPENS to make him change his behaviour. Well he is being nicey-nicey now...but not in a normal way. As the other posters have pointed out, he is being VERY controlling.

What will happen when you go to court and he says...' well Mrs TRM has been happy for me to come and go as I please at her new house. I make food and I use the facilities.
I go on days out with my family...'

Why are you allowing this?

I know it is hard to change the behaviour of half a lifetime, but really you have to bite the bullet and do it now.

He will get very, very nasty....actually I think he is being nasty now....it gives me shivers down my spine to read what you write actually.

If he wants to see the children then he takes them away from your house. You do not have any contact with him at all except for arrangements about the children.

He has wormed his way back in again and NOTHING has changed.

Sorry this post sounds very harsh I know. The ONLY way to get rid of a narc is to scare them witless so that they go away and find another victim.

Harsh but sadly true.

xxxxx

Oh and just to hammer it home even more....

You are not a person...you are an object.

Your children are objects....

In fact, there is no word to describe what you are in his view.

You ABSOLUTELY have to protect yourself and your children from this half-human.

He is not a human being as we would recognise this....he is a soul-sucker and life-sapper.

Please get yourself onto this forum and just read the stories.

He is bleeding the life out of you. And your children. You HAVE to get tough.

xxxxx

the realme - please be careful you got good advice above.

i made this same mistake when i moved out of joint owned flat with dcs in april 08, allowing him round to see them - i thought i could supervise that way. it ended in violence as he didnt accept we were separated. we on supervised contact sessions and it still v unsettled.

i do know also how ahrd it is to be tough on exP in front of DCS - as they confused and still love him...

still some joint finances and had to alert him by txt msg to bank charges on a still joint account, mortgages not been paid etc - due to his spending. asked him to find money to put in account - as was his spending at ikea that took it over the overdraft limit.

he resigned his job in 2005 (i did not make him redudnant i never employed him!) and was "house husband" but it was complete disaster he moaned every day how hard it was...but now tries to say he did great job of it.
i get back:

"I have no money to put in account. I am unemployed at present you know that as you made me redundant. I left my work to provide our children and family. To give more for the dcs and us. To be able to provide something better and different that money holidays clothes do not provide. To make a difference in our lives. But nothing of this you have ever seen or thank for. I doubt that you have ever been truthful in our relationship ever.

he continues in nx msg

?one day you get cancer like r?s brother and you see differently. You see that that you can forgive and you want to live and love others and give love and affection. How much need is on do you all of this? True and honest love kindness and affection this brings happiness and changes people and situations.

Therealme-
{{hugs}}
Enmeshment.
It sounds like you have returned to a state of numbness. Why are you letting him do these things without protest?

I think it is more confusing to the dc that you do things together now that you've split, than it would be to insist xh back off. They will adjust if you give them a chance to.

Can your mom come back? Can you carry a talisman to remind you that you should be completely disconnected from your x h? Maybe one that has "Just say NO" engraved on it?

Can you not tell him what your plans are so he can't 'show up'?

Can you set up his lounge in the yard to keep him out of your house? (There was a scene in a movie, I think it was "Juno" that had this-but for a friend.) (His) Comfy chair, side table, lamp, tv on a carpet with extension chords-all outside (weather be damned). Am I kidding? No, not really...

Tmsb watches too many movies-another one had a girl hire a guy...well, you might need a body guard (housemate?), but if xh thought he was your new man...(why wait for him to get a new gf?). I do think that until you do get a new guy, he will always think he has a chance with you, no matter how (or how much) you say "no".

From your posts, imho, you need a counselor now-for more help than you can get here. Or please post more often-you are slipping backward in a bad bad bad way.

RealMe, I tend to agree with the other posters, that ExN is looking for narcissistic supply.

It is going to be very difficult to get him out of your life. This may be an expensive and impractical suggestion - but is there any way you can move house?

I know you are in rented and the DC's are settled, but could you do some kind of house swap or rent another property nearby instead.

I fear that if you continue to live in the same house that you once shared it will be difficult to stop him coming round.

If not it will require a superhuman effort of NC "No Contact" where you'd have to change the locks, and really stand up to him and say No and of course he'd use the DC's to gain sympathy.

Could you try Women's Aid and see what they might suggest? I think sometimes they offer a stay in a refuge for women who can't get their partners out of their lives. But I'm sure that's not ideal either.

I'm sure I'd struggle in your situation too - for me it was easier as I actually left the house.

Keep posting!

TRM his coming and going is nothing to do with you or the children -as you can see since he mostly ignores the dcs when he comes round anyway. Whatever his motives are they won't be normal or not to anyone not NPD anyway.

You don't treat somebody like shit for years then suddenly turn all nice again and remain that way.

You know this.

But I too don't quite understand why you are letting him in so much. It may well affect your position when the case comes to court - ie you have allowed him access to the house, food, facilities etc. He could use this to his advantage.

Does he have a solicitor yet?

What does your solicitor advise re his behaviour and what you can do about it? You must have one in order to have obtained the court order surely?

When it gets nasty - and he will get nasty - you might regret being so willing to let him in.

I have a very good friend who is dealing with an N exH and two years after the split they are still not divorced and he is still lying to her and trying to control her via the dc. BUT what I wanted to say is that he has been able to get rights to cross-examine her himself (he loves the drama in court of course) when she has been in the witness box at hearings (she has to pay up again in sols fees if she wants to ask the court not to allow this. Bloody nightmare for her.) But if he goes for something similar he would be able to point out that you have been happy to allow him access when and how he pleases...

You don't actually seem to be worried about him or the potential for him to turn abusive again (and perhaps in a physical way.) He probably won't be physical - my xh wasn't (though he did hit me hard once) - like mine he might be a lazy fucking coward with little-boy-lost syndrome. Until it comes to the final reckoning.

He must stop coming to your house. Go back to your solicitor. get more advice

Unless you are going to take him back and are just seeing how it goes?

saint gg I cant find your mobile number. can you call me at home? x

Therealme, I think there is an element of him not being willing for N reasons to see anything changed. But that still looks to courts as you being willing to let him have a lot of access to the children, to come and go (therefore why do you need the order?) as they assume you would put a stop to this if you were afraid. They are very cunning. It struck me that if you are living in a rented house, can you approach the house owners and have the locks changed, as a matter or urgency? Explain the circumstances, show them the order you have if needed, and ask them under no circumstances to let him have a new key? Then keep you doors locked at all times. If he shows up he won't be able to get in. If he kicks up even a small fuss, call the Guards and mention the order. Because there is a boundary problem here too, besides the cunning and the ego trip he's on. Also, how did he get wind of the zoo trip? I had to keep all my plans to myself, including trips for fun with the DCs, because exNH would winkle information out of them if they were talking on the phone.
Sakura, the boundary thing with your MIL is what made me advise against letting her babysit. You are right, there is no way of predicting what will take place between her and your DC when your backs are turned. Small children under a certain age do not provide good quality supply to Ns, because they are undergoing their own perfectly natural N stage themselves and there's only room for one N in a room. The smaller, weaker N can come to grief in a situation like that.

Sorry, back again. Sometimes things occur to me after I've gone off to do something else. Do you have the receipt for the M&S stuff he bought or did he keep it? If you have it, I would say bring it all back and get rid of it. If he kept the receipt, he did it to show the courts what a caring, nice man he is, buying you clothes. Make sure you have the receipt from the charity shop where you bought your DCs clothes. Go back to them and ask them if they could give you a replacement if you don't have it.

They are very cunning. This is why it's important to ask yourself What's in it for me? whenever you get anything from him, and also, What's in this for him? They are kind to be cruel, to turn that saying upside down, and you need to be seemingly cruel to him in order to be kind to you. Never give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well it seems in my attempts to make things easier for my dc I have allowed my ex to worm his way back into my life. I thought that by allowing their Dad to drop in for a couple of hours here and there the kids would not find his sudden leaving too traumatic.
I see now that I have made life easy for him once again. I am thinking of his needs and not my own. I am repeating old behaviours and this is telling me that I need to do a lot more work on myself.

I will start by not allowing him to drop down to the house so often. I will insist he takes the dc out instead. I will write down a list of boundries tonight that I want in place with regards to his access to the dc.
It's true, it is hard to change the habits of half a lifetime. I have to start changing my way of thinking here. The relief of just getting him out is not going to sustain a future for me free of his control. I need to toughen up I think.

Does he realise you are ignoring the presents? You need to tell him to stop that malarkey as well.

I agree, he's in your house too much. He acts the part of somebody who's very welcome any time. How do you react around that?!

If you make gestures to let it be known that he's not welcome, they seem petty and pointless and unreasonable, and he'll act martyred and reasonable and look at you as though you're mad, when ALL he's doing is popping roundto see children!!!

I suggest that you either ask for the keys back or change the locks.

NO doubt, it will be very hard for him to keep up his mr nice guy act when you do that. But, maybe, that's a good thing. It will make it easier for you to remember why you've done this and to be motivated to follow it all through.

HABITS of a life time... tis so true. You know I had that disturbing realisation today that I'm not arguing with Arnie JUST because he is an arrogant woman-hating manipulator, but also because I am drawn back to an npd like a fly to shit. That scares me a bit.

Maggie, you are fighting it, not drawn back to it.

He is making you angry. You are allowed to be angry you know.

FWIW I think he's a sly snake.

Also, anger is an important emotion.

My xhN stayed silent and hiding his emotions right up until the morning he flew to bangland to fuck whores. Now amusingly, he is very vocal in his expressions on the internet and facebook.

Bloody funny though as it's all in americanese - ie his newly-created warped persona, as in:

'man'
'dude'
'shout out'
'poke her'
'beers'
'bagel' 'obama' 'ground zero' (I made the last three up as of course he hasn't used them in his verbally and morally bankrupt messages to banglanders or his drinking mates )

ZZzzzzz, I mean, this man wears reading glasses, has a wonky eye, a small and wrong-spurting willy, is quite short, has a very spotty bottom, farts horribly loudly, is shit with money, has no sense of humour (NPD) and is as we know an utter immoral pathological liar. He must have something going for him though because I married him oh yes! he was a saint to me for the first year!

I can feel a limerick coming on...

There once was a girl from the Torridge
Whose N turned her brain into porridge
His words were all lies,
and his act a disguise
But he did try for mushrooms to forage

I can do better than that. but I must go to bed. x

Maggie, he has no keys. He rings and asks if he can call down to see the dc. I agreed initially because I wantd to shelter them from any sudden changes. My eldest son has Aspergers so making changes in his life have to be done gradually and with great planning.
However.... after 3 weeks of observing ex h in my house I can now see that him being here is more about him meeting his comfort needs and not about any quality time he gets to spend with the dc. Although, admittedly, him being on the couch is a vast improvement on him lying in bed where the dc are concerned.

I'm not happy about how I have let things develop; the postings on here today have given me a shake up. I am falling back into old patterns of allowing ex h to dictate the rules. The last 3 times he has been here the dc have been late going to bed, I told him he had to leave at 8.30 this evening and he was still here at 9 waiting on his cab. He spun me a yarn about not being able to take the dc out, despite me making the car available to him, because he had no money. Yet he turned up in a new coat the other day, brought gift clothes for me and returned from town with the dc having purchased himself clothing tonight.
I am being taken for a fucking ride once again and I didn't even see it coming. I feel so stupid - it's no wonder he got away with treating me like shit for years, I feel like I bloody asked for it.

I have to start making some rules. I've got to keep him at arms length. He rang to tell me that ds had a hole in his shorts this evening and would I bin them? Immediately after they got home he asked me to get ds out of the shorts and to give them to him so he could bin them. This was a startling reminder of how he behaved when we were married. It might sound trivial, but it was all about control, him calling the shots and making me do what he wanted. Aaaahhhh!!! I'm an idiot!

REgarding your instinctive reaction to agree to his requests, I can advise a little on that, because I have the same problem with my father.
WHen he asks you to do something etc, I understand that there is almost an instinctive reaction to agree to the request (whether its fear of consequences, or pity or whatever makes you submit). So if you have already agreed to something but it has made you uncomfortable, it is within your rights to change your mind. You can call him back and say youVe had a think and that actually youVe come to the conclusion that its not okay. This is a normal thing that normal people do all the time, so you are not being unreasonable or strange (or however he might try to portray you). This is about him accepting that you are not enmeshed- that you are a different person to him. Calling him back and telling him you`ve changed your mind reminds him that you are seperate from him.

With practice, you can learn to actually pause before replying. I say "Errr, hang on a minute, Errr.. (and I mull the request over in my head) NO..actually, thats not okay for me". Thats it. You don`T need to justify, explain or anything. He has to take the fact it is not okay for you at face value: only you know yourself how you feel.

Finally, I have learned that the phone or computer is supposed to be there for our own convenience, to serve us. I have been greatly empowered by the knowledge that I simply to not have to answer the phone unless I want to. I am not a slave to the phone. THis can be something as simple as I am in the middle of a good chat with a friend when it goes off. Or it can be that I don`t feel I want to talk to the person who is calling me. It is an instinctive reaction to pick up and answer the phone, but it is fine not to.

Oh, and never forget "knowledge is power".

Only tell him the bare minimum. Do not offer information (like where you are taking the kids.yOU don`T even have to tell the kids until the last moment if you think they might be his source of info)

If he asks you outrught about plans etc, be very vague.

Message withdrawn

Right....here are some rules you can lay down...

Do NOT answer the phone when he rings. Let it go to voice mail and ignore.

All communication to be by email.

All communication to be about DCs, and arrangements for him TAKING THEM OUT.

No discussions about holes in shorts or any other utter rubbish.

Tell him a time when it is convenient FOR YOU, and for your DCs, to go out with him, and stick to it. Tell him this by email.

He does not come to your house unless he is collecting DCs. You do not let him in the house AT ALL.

Ignore his excuses and lies.

Remember the old 'joke'...

Q) How do you know a narcissist is lying?

A) His lips are moving.

If he is late collecting or delivering DCs, this has consequences for the next time. Tell him this by email.

If he has to 'wait for a cab' then he does it outside. Hopefully he will get soaked and make sure he orders a cab for the correct time next time.

You are dealing with a blood-sucking nutter with the brain of a toddler. But a particularly devious toddler. Treat him as you would a toddler, but without the love and compassion you would show a toddler.

This man is your mortal enemy. Always remember that.

xxxxxx

Yes, that discussion about the shorts is exactly the kind of thing that Ns use to throw people off the scent. You end up getting concerned about the damned shorts and wondering about them instead of wondering about the real questions, like why are we on the phone chit-chatting as though nothing has happened?

Ok, after a series of texts (all logged) in which he has been trying to intimidate me into thinking that if I go to court and tell them that I claimed benefits I will go to jail - and that some medication I have been taking has caused my 'terrible mood swings' - I have wised up enough to change things.

I will be following your advice. I have just learned a hard lesson. Nothing about him has changed and I am feeling pretty stupid for thinking I could control all this and let him have free access to the dc in their home.
I can't allow him to keep controlling me, it's just more of the same crap that has been the pattern of my marriage.

Feeling very deflated right now but not about to get into the foetal position just yet....

Actually therealme i think it's a case or really well done, and not time to feel awful. This really shows that you have changed years and years of conditioned thinking and have realised what was happening and have changed it!

I think you should feel relieved that you know you needn't slip back this time!

Thanks Katisha, it's a learning curve I think I will be on for a very long time to come.