Would you go back to this man? Please take a look at this although it is long.

[Theworldsbiggestdoughnut]

My ex while we were together

Drank to excess almost every single night
Went with prostitutes regularly
Was unfaithful with other women regularly besides prostitutes.
Phoned sex lines regularly
Would go out and disappear for days at a time
Took me out on occasions and abandoned me without a word in nightclubs or pubs to go off and pursue his own night out
Did no housework whatsoever
Only took on a share of childcare after many arguments, calling me lazy and threatening behaviour.
During arguments regularly called me awful names, spat in my face and sometimes became physically violent, pushing down stairs etc
Told me he would not support me to go through college and retrain and when I tried to do it anyway I had to stop after half a term because he could not provide child care any more due to his work commitments.
Told me that financially he deserved more than me because he earned the money and I was a SAHM.
Told me he could never give 100% to a marriage or relationship because you just get shit on if you do.
He believes men are more entitled to go out, have money, decent jobs etc than women and a decent woman is one who is there for her dh and lets him have the final say in everything.

Now he tells me his different, has changed everything and I am not being fair to the dc and our family by not giving him another chance. Says he was too young to have got married (23) and he has grown up and is now ready to have a proper relationship.

I can't do it. I feel like there is something frozen inside me. I have no more chances left to give him. I am 90% sure that while he has probably improved there is something fundamentally not right about him and he will always hurt me.

I feel very guilty though, as though I am denying us the chance to be a family if he really has changed, I don't believe he has though.

I don't really know how I feel about him. I feel totally numb and frozen inside. I think I am what is called emotionally disconnected so I don't feel hate towards him, I don't feel anything really. Please give me some advice. I have name changed.

OP I agree with the posters who say you have to get angry, because I am just facing up to what my abusive ex did too and I find expressing anger very difficult, so (and this is bizarre I know) it is coming out in my dreams!
I have kneed a man in the bollocks, shouted, ordered all the men out of a room and generally Taken Charge. I wake up feeling good!
I cant shout at him in RL because he is such a self-obsessed arse it would accomplish nothing, so this is a way to deal with it.

You are in what I call "The Fog" but when you leave him behind that fog will begin to lift and you will begin to gain a wonderful clarity over your life and what you want.

BTW my ex was only hideous to me and is seen as a cross between a angel and a saint by everyone else. He is very intelligent, charismatic and talented - but as cold and two faced as they come. A great friend but a lousy partner. He is lousy to OW as well.

Have you EVER been in a position to put your needs first instead of his? Well get ready, because once you leave him you will discover how good this feels.

We are separated already but he is here a lot.

I do know what you mean by "the fog". I feel too tired to do anything beyond what absolutely has to be done IYSWIM. I am supposed to be registering for OU and I just can't get up the enthusiasm to fill in the forms. Everything feels like a massive chore. I am happy at night when he has gone and I am alone for the night.

I actually do put my needs before his, I didn't used to but he treated me like shit even when I did put him first so I changed it. This is what led to all the arguments because he didn't think I should. I think that is why I am so knackered because of the constant fighting to be seen, treated and act as an equal. I have actually been very strong believe it or not. Never allowed his silly opinions or nonsense to affect my opinions. I am not the kind of person, when something is important to me, to allow someone else to shoot it down or ridicule it without a fight. It is the fighting that has worn me out. The main thing was the constant drinking and disappearing, things which he did not do directly to me but had a massive affect anyway. It is more that HE would always put HIS needs and wants first and just leave me to deal with it.

I am totally separated for him but I know I need to take it further as I still feel very trapped. I am hoping he will meet someone else soon and lose a bit of interest.

As many others have said, No. I am completely unqualified to judge/advise and have no experience in a situation like yours but I would like to offer support here.

However, I also think you need to prepare for his possible adverse reaction when you draw a line under it and set out how it's going to be, given some of the more angry history in your list. That means getting a RL friend or someone independent (Relate?) involved. Your mother is clearly on your side but you've said she can be a bit too hard over. It's now the time to find a friend who you can rely on and open up to them, tell the full story and outline what you want to do about it.

If today marks the day when you write your OU application forms, decide to cut him out of your life, while setting out fairly and constructively how you can support him being involved in the DCs lives, once you have been through it in your mind and run your plans by your friend or counsellor, you'll be well ahead of the curve compared to him and he's likely to be taken aback. So then comes all the usual stuff about meeting in public/neutral ground, having the children minded by a GP while you have an adult conversation.

But please do it - you deserve to make the most of yourself.

i'm sure no-one here is doubting your strength, doughnut. i hope you can get the help you need, i'm sure that a counsellor could take it v v slowly with you so that you're not opening a big pandora's box immediately. good luck.

Sweetheart you don't have to let him into your life this way. He has no rights to come into your home, if he wants to see your daughter you need to set those times, yourself, and once every two weeks would be maybe about right...depending on what you feel she needs.

Don't accept any communication outside of these times. You don't have to. I really think you need to speak to Womens aid or your local organisation (ours is based at the refuge, I never used the refuge but they still counselled me and helped me with everything, legal stuff, you name it)

There are very blurred boundaries in your relationship, basically you're still heavily involved with him and it's not doing you or your child any good, so if you start thinking about life without him there all the time you might find you are less foggy, less tired, he;s taking all your emotional strength and energy. You don't have to give it to him. There are legal rules that can give him access to your child, but NOBODY can force you to interact with this person, or to like him, or to discuss anything with him. He's a grown up fgs and not your responsibility, even if you had a child with him.

Why is he still in your life like this?

Honestly I don't feel that he is still in my life, I don't care for him anymore. Also I thought it would be better for the dc to see us being able to do things as a family. He says that no-one will stop him from seeing his dc every single day and if I am honest I don't want him to not see them as often as possible. It really is nothing to do with me. I don't love him or want a relationship with him but I would really like to be friendly and him have maximum access to the dc. Am I just being too unrealistic? I don't let him see the dc this often because I am frightened of him, I really am not, he adores them and they him. I would hate to get in the way of that.

I think you are right when you say I need to speak to someone, I don't seem to be able to see things clearly.

I was physically and emotinally abused as a child as well and I have had counselling for that. I do think that maybe this is why I don't hate him the way I should. Subconsiciously this is just how I think people are so I put up with it for myself. Maybe he sensed that and that is why he is like he is with only me. I would never in a million years allow my dc to be treated badly but for me this is just how it has always been. I do realise that it is very wrong but I don't seem to have the sense of outrage on my own behalf that I would have on someone elses.

I hope I am not committing that MN sin of "navel gazing". Your posts are making me think alot.

they do say that men like him choose women who are vulnerable already. my friend had had a bad time of it too, and surprise surprise who picks her? professional, handsome, smooth-talking, clever, all round modern nice guy to everyone else but to her, an absolute class A abuser.

he was also a 'very good dad' (i mean it bears no scrutiny as he was beating up and emotionally abusing his kids' mum, so clearly he was a terrible father) but in terms of playing, throwing them around etc he was very present in their lives. didn't cook or clean, it was all the fun stuff and bossing around stuff he liked, but for some reason my friend thought that made him a good bloke and a good influence on her kids.

oooh, it's making me angry just thinking about him. i hate him. sorry, that's a bit me me me but really, these men are something else, they're MASTERFUL at playing people.

It amkes sense that if those you trusted treated you this way then yes, you'd be'immune' to seeing it as some kind of outrage, which in short it is.

for you that you have had this happen.
I guess the thing you are most worried about is the feeling guilty. If he is there all the time anyway, he is still having maximum access to the children, what more does he want? You owe them the role model of a healthy happy mother, not under his thumb.
So you're already doing the right thing, and he can't accept that so it's his problem to deal with.

This has to be about the children and they have what they need, not sure if seeing a man emotionally blackmailing their mum is great, but still - as long as you are Ok with it as things are then nobody can tell you to do different.

We all just want you and them to be Ok and frankly he does sound a complete tossrag so we are getting cross on your behalf.

Sorry to put it like that, not meaning to hurt you, just can't find a nice way to put it. You sound very nice - I hope you can get to see someone. It'll be free through womensaid. your refuge group or your GP xxxx and take no shit fropm him - if he doesn't stop hassling you, you hold all the cards here. You are bending over backwards to accommodate his demands atm, you don't have to do that./

Are the kids happy?

The kids are very happy, I hope, they seem to be. He works long hours so the time he does spend with them is good time it is all fun and games. He sounds very like your friends ex Aitch tbh.

He does not drink in front of them. I did not allow that. I don't drink at all myself. We have never really argued in front of them either. I know kids do pick up on things but I can honestly say I have done everything in my power for them not to be affected.

This thread has been very enlightening to me. I am going to go to my GP next week to be referred for counselling. Apparently get 12 sessions through them. I do think I need help with this.

Believe it or not, he is not being aggressive about asking to come back. He is being very quiet and acting very "nice" apart from the occasional request. I don't think it is an act. I think he is a very messed up person who doesn't really know HOW to act with a wife and family so just took the easy route. He is not physically abusive when he is not drinking. It all comes down to the drink IMHO. But he will never stop that even though he knows what it leads to so that in itself is abusive isn't it?

I just want you all to know how much I appreciate the time you are all taking to talk this through with me. I am thinking about it all the time because of the opinions expressed on here. Have even pulled out my OU form.

I think he is an alcoholic, yes. He doesn't believe it though (shocker!).

These incidents always happened at night after he had been drinking, He never remembered them (or said he didn't) so therefore we didn't need to "keep going on about them". my children are still quite small so no, they didn't notice anything, they are not scared of him, they love him.

Everything is not lovely and I am not happy, that is why I am posting. I don't think you are being horrible btw, I think I need shaking up a bit. The abuse he heaped on me was very real but the abuse on his dc was indirect, ie drinking, using family money to drink and destabilising us as a couple. Thats why I ended it.

I haven't worked anything out. I am miserable and have massive panic attacks. I was wondering if it was right to take the good stuff, ie spending time as a family etc. Clearly though I am sending him mixed messages also by doing that. I am a mess.

i wish that he was her ex, doughnut. i see them together, she's an absolute shadow of herself. and not my friend any more either.

he made you a mess, sweetheart. it's probably not the drink, really, that will be a symptom of something else for him. look at the list of things that he did, he really is depraved, that's not a normal 'pissed in the wardrobe when rat-arsed' list.

I have that book and found it very helpful.

"that's not a normal 'pissed in the wardrobe when rat-arsed' list."

"I agree with Aitch that his behaviour goes far beyond what you might be able to excuse as alcohol induced."

It might surprise you to know that I have never considered that. I have always blamed everything on the drinking and him being too young when we got married but you are so right neither of those things excuse all of his behaviours. There must be something else that has nothing to do with me. It is not normal is it, its just wrong and I am must be a complete nutter for thinking that I can continue to have a pleasant relationship with him? If I read someone else saying all this I would think she was nuts.

i suppose on the one hand it's surprising, and on the other it's not.

what my friend's husband used to to, whether they were split up or together, (the werre always one or the other) was monopolise her thinking so that she really couldn't get time to question his behaviour. phone calls that between a normal married couple would last two mins would somehow last an hour, with her getting smaller and smaller the whole time and later and later with the list of things she had to do for her large family. if she was always either listening to him or rushing to catch up with making tea, doing washing, cleaning up, she'd never have time to reflect. i hate the bones of him.

To the OP, I'm not sure I would piss on that man if he were on fire.

I wouldn't stop to tell him the time. He's a waste of space. No, don't go back to him. Keep detached from him. Get yourself sorted so you remember what normal is, and then measure people by that. You'll realise then what he's really like.

have just realised how stupid that looks, that i posted 'they were always split up or together'.

what i mean is, even if they were split up, there was no real split, there was always the drama of the pair of them going out on family days (because she didn't trust him quite rightly to have them on his own and she felt strongly that he had to have access because he was a 'good dad etc'). i mean, it's hard enough for women to see their kids' father take their children on a day out when it's been a normal divorce, it was pretty unthinkable for her to let him have sole access to his children. if i'm honest i suspect this is the case with you, you're needed to take care of the practicalities while he does the rough and tumble etc.

anyway, all the time this is going on, the monopolisation of her brain was going on as well. and you know, they did get back together (because i think she found the effort of staying apart and putting up with his demands exhausting) and are still together and i wouldn't wish her life on anyone.

OP I think from what you say that you have started to figure it out, you know things are dodgy atm and just don't know where to begin as he is possibly your sole 'support' or contact? I mean he is the person who figures most in your day to day life and 'knows' you best, which leaves you without a rope to swing from iyswim. Which is where we come in

Seriously, if you are having panic attacks and are miserable, this is probably the heavy price you're paying for being 'OK' and cool about him being around - your body/mind/senses are screaming at you, you're afraid to actually step back and say NO get away from me you bastard, because of the inevitable fallout - which without support, you may not have the tools to manage without getting more hurt.

V scary place to be and he is prob being nicey nicey BECAUSE you aren't standing up to him. Once you actually get real and grasp the nettle and say fuck off to him, he isn't needing to be arsey. You're taking all of the happy family stuff on the chin so as not to rock the boat - he's like a malevolent toddler threatening to have a tantrum.

This is why you're suffering in other ways. The anger and fear and WRONGness of it is coming out in other ways.

Get in touch with Womensaid, please do that asap, they understand men like this, honestly and will be 100% on your side and help you make a plan.

You need backup with a git of these proportions. Anyone would. You can get over this and get a better life sorted out, without his presence constantly making you ill.

Sorry that should say 'Until you actually...' not 'once'

A couple of people have touched on this, but it doesn't seem to have really been spelt out:

He is still abusing you.

There's a constant implied threat: " He says that no-one will stop him from seeing his dc every single day and if I am honest I don't want him to not see them as often as possible."

That's understandable, but it's destroying you. And it is hurting your children, as they see it destroying you, holding you back.

I understand why you want what would appear to be an easy life and for him to have lots of contact with dc's, but he's creating and maintaining a different form of control and abuse.

I think you need to keep taking radical action on this. I think you need to create further space for yourself.

I would highly recommend you cut all contact between you and him, and set up contact for him via a supervised contact centre - via this website.

At this point, the old him, which he has left behind, will doubtless re-appear.

Two very useful numbers, both for National Centre For Domestic Violence: 0800 9702070 for general calls, 0844 8044999 is 24 hr emergency line.

They can sort out free, emergency restraining orders etc.

Yes, your head is a mess. But you are moving forward - asking for opinions, recognising problems and issues, looking for further support, these are all behaviours of someone who is looking to deal with and better their situation. And you are taking responsibility for sorting it out, so massive kudos to you.

Regarding that, 12 sessions ain't much, but far better than nothing, and a good start. I got hooked up with a counsellor via MIND - free, and no limit to the number of sessions

If you're not already on them, don't be afraid of anti-depressants. Your brain's chemistry has been changed over many years, so it needs certain chemicals to be boosted / replaced so that you can be better able to cope with your situation.

Lastly, I'll also re-iterate that you should get in touch with your local Domestic Violence Centre. Life is complicated, and I would hope that they will be able to co-ordinate things for you.

You're doing fantasticaly well.

What has happened to you has been due to others. It may be your responsibility to deal with it, but it has been caused by others, and you are dealing with it.