Feeling betrayed by PIL

[flamingobingo]

I've been thinking about this all night and have decided that a bit of advice from MN might be very helpful right now.

Basically I've been suffering from depression on and off my whole life. I've always been able to put each episode down to something going on at the time - having a baby, or final year at uni etc. But during an episode in January I decided enough was enough and decided to start counselling.

My FIL is a psychotherapist and found a lovely therapist for me and offered to pay for some of it. My parents are paying the rest. Both sets of parents have been hugely supportive, as I've discovered that all my episodes of depression are linked, and as I learn more and more about myself and my life.

I'm still having episodes of depression though and, of course, they affect my children which really worries me. My mum comes over twice a week for the day, DH has a day off during the week and a weekend day off every other weekend. I have lovely friends who are helping out too - one of whom looks after all my 4 DCs while I go to one of my two counselling sessions each week. I have two days a week 'on my own' with the children, where I try to get out, see friends etc.

A couple of weeks ago I had yet another really difficult patch and I got a prescription for anti-depressants, which I had avoided so far. In the end I decided not to take them (please don't talk about the anti-ds though, they have had much discussion!) but ask MIL if she would come over on her day off each week to help out like my mum does. She's been desperate to do this for years but I find her very annoying and she's done/said things in the past that have been really awful to DH and me (and also my family!).

She's not the most horrific MIL in the world, but she ain't perfect either. She's also said things that have made it very clear that, even though FIL totally approves of and supports our attachment parenting style, she doesn't, but just goes along with it. She's said/done stuff with my children that has really bothered me though, but I've just left it and accepted that I can't control what all other adults say and do with my children and they need to grow up knowing everyone isn't the same as me!

So she came over the week before last, armed with a craft activity to do with them. The day went well. She took them to the park and shop and was out for about 2hrs while DD4 (baby) slept and I got loads of housework done in peace, which was lovely. I looked forward to her coming again - which is bizarre for me!

She didn't come last week as we were away camping, but she came on Sunday (usually her and FIL come on the Sundays DH works as he finishes early and they get to see some of him, and we don't 'waste' one of his precious days off with them!) on her own as FIL was busy, and it was really stressful.

She took them to the shop and then refused to buy my DD1 something she'd asked for even though I said it would be ok, and she forced her to have something she didn't want. So DD1 came home in a strop (a justified one IMO), which annoyed MIL. And then DD2 asked me if they could eat their buttons before lunch (I was already surprised they hadn't eaten them on the way home). Note that she asked me, her mother. And I would normally say yes - buttons are hardly going to stop her eating lunch, and even if they did she's bound to eat more food later on. But MIL jumped in before I had a chance to answer and said 'no, you must eat lunch first'. Not a big deal, I know, but DD2 had a paddy about it, which could have been avoided, so I then had two children in a mood and me feeling very embarrassed and very paranoid about what she thought of my parenting.

I went upstairs to talk to DD1 who said she wanted to eat lunch but didn't want to come down as she was still upset with MIL. Normally I would have brought her lunch upstairs, but I was feeling worried about what MIL would think.

So MIL went home and I said to DH when he got home that I felt a bit oversensitive, that the day had been stressful and I was worried about her weekday visit. I said I felt constantly under scrutiny but that I knew I was just being paranoid, as she was just coming to support me and help me out.

We've now been invited to attend a fab weekly family thing on the day MIL's meant to come over, so DH rang her to tell her. She was a bit upset, he told me by text. I was angry with him because I thought he told her the wrong way, and didn't want her upset as she'd been so helpful and kind. When he got home, though, he told me in more detail about the conversation.

Apparently he'd said 'it's not about you, so don't be upset' and she'd replied saying 'good! But I thought I was going there to see how things were going and to check on teh children?'!!!! And then proceeded to 'report' to him about DD1 saying 'did you know she's very quiet in the day and plays on the computer quite a bit?'. DH was a star and just said 'well she was probably having a quiet day like we all do sometimes' and managed to not tell her off for thinking she was meant to be spying on me.

But I've been upset all night by it all. I feel really betrayed by my PIL, but don't really know if FIL thought she was meant to be checking up on me too, or if it's just her perception of the situation. I kind of want to ring him to ask him to ask him. He's been very kind through the whole process and I've been very honest with him. Either I've been too honest and he has told MIL to check up on me or she's got completely the wrong, and very unpleasant end of the stick.

Thanks for reading this essay - anyone got any thoughts? Not seeing them now until Sunday week, and seeing my therapist tomorrow when I'll discuss it with her, but MN is so helpful sometimes - hoping it will be this time too!

tbh it sounds like the depression is making you blow things out of proportion
most mils would frown on choc buttons before lunch and eating upstairs
it's not personal just other peoples views
i would let it go as it siunds like she could be of great help to you
maybe let her have the oldrr ones at her house so u can chill out home with lo , then you wont be fretting all the time

No, it's not the chocolate buttons that's the issue, it's the fact she thinks she's coming over to spy on me! The chocolate buttons story was just to explain why I found Sunday quite stressful - rightly or wrongly, it was stressful. I wasn't looking forward to her coming over this week because of it - not much point having her over if it's more stressful than not!

The point is that, in asking her not to come over, it transpired she thought she was coming over to check on me and report back to DH!

Big DC at her house not an option due to transport/distance issues.

Really? My mum was really shocked when I told her. DH also annoyed and he's not depressed.

DH needs to ask her why she said that.

Agree re the choc buttons episode, most GPs would have said not before lunch.

Oh blimey. Choc buttons episode was not me being critical, just me explaining why the day was stressful! Maybe should have just said 'I found the day difficult'! And it was that she didn't give me time to answer, which is a tad rude considering it's my house and my children. I didn't undermine her though, which suggests I knew it wasn't that unreasonable of me. Still left me with a second cross child though!

Owls - That's a good idea. Will suggest it to him.

I also think BigChris is right and you need to be careful not to blow this out of proportion. Your in laws can be a valuable source of help.

I suspect your dh is annoyed because it's caused you to be upset and he had high hopes for an improvement in your relationship with your mil. It must be hard for him too.

Try to let this go if you can.

I think if I was your MIL i would know my primary role was the childcare but as a MIL i would also be worried about how you are getting on and would want to report to my son worries that i had, which he might not be aware of because he's at work ( whatever your relationship is like). I certainly wouldn't think it was spying and just me being helpful.

Maybe it's just the language used that is the issue. I don't want to feel 'spied' on by anyone. Even if they are trying to be helpful.

I see why you are so upset and think it might have been kinder if DH had just set his mother straight and not told you what she had said. Then you would only be dealing with 'I had a stressful day with MIL'.

I agree with big chris that the day as described was a bit stressful but something you could have coped with and benefitted from if you had been feeling 100%.

I will say nothing about the *s but continuing episodes of depression indicate chronic rather than reactive depression. Perhaps talk to therapist about your aversion to *s?

Granny - it is chronic depression as we now know from the therapy, and that's why I'm having psychodynamic psychotherapy. It's not an aversion, it's a very considered decision not to take them.

TBH, I'm surprised at how ok people think it is that a MIL think it's appropriate to tell her DS things that she thinks he might not know. Does she think that DH and I don't communicate? Or that I lie to him or hide things from him?

Or do most people's relationships involve a bit of dishonesty? Do most mothers hide things from their DPs? Am I abnormal being so honest and open about things?

Sorry but i think you are massively over reacting, your mil has agreed to come and help you and is trying to in the best way she can

If you said to me 'attachment parenting' i wouldnt realise that meant choc buttons before lunch, maybe she thought you were giving in to dd because you were feeling down and wanted to avoid confrontation so she was tryiong to support you, I wouldnt have rrealised it was a deliberate decision you made

No one has said it's ok. I think that the point people are making is that what she's done isn't great but in the scheme of things it really isn't worth the aggro it's causing you. We all know what a nightmare the relationship between us and our mothers in law can be. Mine is shocking, truly awful and has told dh lies about me in the past just to cause a problem between us. And yes there is an element of dishonesty in these relationships because if I told my mil what I thought of her it would turn the air blue.

I would hate to think that one adult thought their family role was to 'check up' on another adult.

Frankly, that sounds grim a very weird dynamic for the MIL to play out.

I think you need to avoid being with your mother in law while she's looking after the kids as much as possible. Better if she takes them out or you go out and she has sole charge. It sounds like everyone's heart is basically in the right place but you have slightly different styles and both think you're usually right (very normal!). Mother in law/daughter in law can be quite a difficult relationship at the best of times ime. When you're feeling a bit vulnerable and need support from her that is a different and even more difficult vibe again because it's easy to worry that she is taking over your role and, by doing some things differently, criticising you by implication at least. You are also probably extra sensitive at the moment because depression does that. Unfortunately your children will be more than happy to pick up on your fears in this area and exploit any differences in rules/boundaries between you and your mother in law. Unless she's beating or torturing them I would manage this by saying "Nana's looking after you right now, so you follow her rules." even if this involves biting your tongue somewhat! Good luck.

Gene - thank you!

Everyone else - I wish I hadn't put about the bloody chocolate buttons and attachment parenting now as this isn't about that. It's about the checking up on me stance.

More info that I've just remembered about (not a stealth post intentionally!)...she does wish DH was still her little baby and has found it very difficult to accept the fact that he is first a father, second my DH and third her son - rather than the son bit coming first! She often hugs him when she sees him, starts crying and telling him she really misses him. So this also feels a bit like that she is enjoying seeing it as 'her and him keeping an eye on little unstable me'!

I think it's quite a big leap from "see how things are going and check on the children" to "spying", myself. Especially as this is someone who you ASKED to help you with the children because you're not feeling well! I think it's quite likely that you feel very threatened by being the vulnerable one in the mix with your mother in law taking on the role of competent helper. I would feel the same way in your situation, tbh, but I think it would be down to me and not my mother-in-law.

I think your MIL is probably concerned for her grandchildren, albeit needlessly, but a parent with depression would normally have some impact on children. Now although you are a fabulous Mum who is seeking the right sort of help if you were my DIL I would want to make sure you're okay and that my GC were well looked after.
She doesn't live your life, your generation and so probably thinks a little time on the internet is something she wouldn't have done and so tells your DH, not you, so that he can validate whether or not this is okay. I actually think your DH shouldn't have told you what his mother said, especially as he explained and rebuffed her comment.

If she was your Mother maybe she would have said to you, at the time, that you were very quiet.

I find that my mother, who I stay with abroad for weeks, has different rules to me but actually they're better rules than mine. Like the food in between meals, nothing if you don't eat everything, etc. I just go with it and as long as I'm not undermined I try not to worry.

Try to relax, you need your MIL and when she's around get busy away from her so she can't annoy you. She loves your dcs very much and wants to do what's best for them.

Thanks for all the thoughts. It was my DD who was quiet and on the computer a bit, not me!

Ah-haa! Well perhaps this did concern your MIL, she could have been saying this to your DH to check whether this should concern her.

Make this topic, print it out and take it with you, to your next counselling session.

Hi - it seems you have a lot to contend with dealing with mental illness as well as strained family dynamics.

I suffered from severe post natal depression after becoming seriously ill almost immediately my duaghter was born. I was incapable of looking after myself, never mind the 3 children I now had. My MIL came from her home hundreds of miles away to stay with us for a month whilst I was recovering and DH started back at work. It was filled with many different emotions because I knew she was there to support me and her primary task was to look after the newborn who I could not even carry around the house. As I slipped further and further into PND it was MIL who told DH that she felt something was not right and she even came with me to the GP, who incidentally said all new mums have "the blues". Took another 3 months after I had a complete breakdown in the GP surgery before the GP took it seriously.

ANYWAY, I felt my MIL was quietly critical of me and keeping DH informed of what I was or was not doing. It made me mad, angry, upset, resentful and basically did not want her there after a while. However if it were not for her my children would have been at risk of neglect. My DH would have not known how to cope with a newborn, 2 other kids and a wife who was practically catatonic. SHE was our lifeline, in what ever way she helped and what did I not want my husband to know anyway? I am under no illusion that she was helping DH more than me but since that time and as a result of my developed appreciation of her our relationship has improved and I would honestly not want anyone else as my MIL because at the end of the day she was there when my own mum could not be. She loved and cared for my children in her own traditional way and she supported my husband when he thought all was lost. She did what she was supposed to in her role as Nanny, MIL and mum to DH.

It was not just about me, it was also about those I loved who did not have me to support them. School plays, christmas parties, friends for tea, husbands work trips away, family social calender, it all continued because of my MIL. And if she made a comment that came out wrong or had an awkward tone to it then I had to get over it because it was down to me that she was there in the first place.

I am happy to say I am still on the anti-d's but am so much stronger and am running my own home again. I am even about to buy a business but it has taken a lot of acceptance about who I am and realisation that I had to work bloody hard if I was to get my family back on it's feet and allow THEM to have a normal life without being my carer 24x7. I am the kingpin in my family again now.

Don't be too hard on her. She loves you all in her own way but everyone is different. She is there to help in any way she can, at the end of the day that is what counts. Families are not perfect and we all have to take the rough with the smooth.

I hope you start to feel better again soon.

I wouldn't think your FIL was involved in any kind of decision to "check up on you" as he sounds like a sensible caring man - but your MIL seems to be an interfering sort who, knowing you have depression, is using this opportunity to "keep an eye on you".

I think YANBU to be upset by this, but YABU to expect anything else from someone like her! I hope your DH explained to her that you don't need to be "kept an eye on" as you are doing a fine job of raising your DC under difficult circs, and that she is just there to facilitate your progress to feeling better.

Let it go if you can - it is likely to be just her and the way she is.

As an aside, have you considered other things, like taking essential fatty acids, for the depression? Have a look at Dr. Basant Puri's work on EFAs and depression, it might be of interest to you. There are some people who have an overactive enzyme called PLA1, which can cause fatty acid depletion in cell membranes and the brain, and this can contribute to depression and some mental health issues.

Flamingobingo - I'm sorry you are going through such a rotten time (and that so many people on this thread are missing the point - you must be shouting at the computer screen by now).

It would irritate me too - fair enough if it was openly discussed that she was coming to keep an eye on you, but in your current position, it is the last thing you need to hear.

Is there any way someone else could come and help? Her relationship with your DH is not normal or healthy for your situation, given what is going on. I think a neutral person would be better for you. For all the good she does, you are constantly going to be feeling undermined by her. Is there a local college that does a child care course? very often they like their students to go out for free just to get experience.

Take care - hope things improve

Flamingobingo - I'm sorry you are going through such a rotten time (and that so many people on this thread are missing the point - you must be shouting at the computer screen by now).

It would irritate me too - fair enough if it was openly discussed that she was coming to keep an eye on you, but in your current position, it is the last thing you need to hear.

Is there any way someone else could come and help? Her relationship with your DH is not normal or healthy for your situation, given what is going on. I think a neutral person would be better for you. For all the good she does, you are constantly going to be feeling undermined by her. Is there a local college that does a child care course? very often they like their students to go out for free just to get experience.

Take care - hope things improve

Flamingobingo - I'm sorry you are going through such a rotten time (and that so many people on this thread are missing the point - you must be shouting at the computer screen by now).

It would irritate me too - fair enough if it was openly discussed that she was coming to keep an eye on you, but in your current position, it is the last thing you need to hear.

Is there any way someone else could come and help? Her relationship with your DH is not normal or healthy for your situation, given what is going on. I think a neutral person would be better for you. For all the good she does, you are constantly going to be feeling undermined by her. Is there a local college that does a child care course? very often they like their students to go out for free just to get experience.

Take care - hope things improve