Feeling betrayed by PIL

[flamingobingo]

I've been thinking about this all night and have decided that a bit of advice from MN might be very helpful right now.

Basically I've been suffering from depression on and off my whole life. I've always been able to put each episode down to something going on at the time - having a baby, or final year at uni etc. But during an episode in January I decided enough was enough and decided to start counselling.

My FIL is a psychotherapist and found a lovely therapist for me and offered to pay for some of it. My parents are paying the rest. Both sets of parents have been hugely supportive, as I've discovered that all my episodes of depression are linked, and as I learn more and more about myself and my life.

I'm still having episodes of depression though and, of course, they affect my children which really worries me. My mum comes over twice a week for the day, DH has a day off during the week and a weekend day off every other weekend. I have lovely friends who are helping out too - one of whom looks after all my 4 DCs while I go to one of my two counselling sessions each week. I have two days a week 'on my own' with the children, where I try to get out, see friends etc.

A couple of weeks ago I had yet another really difficult patch and I got a prescription for anti-depressants, which I had avoided so far. In the end I decided not to take them (please don't talk about the anti-ds though, they have had much discussion!) but ask MIL if she would come over on her day off each week to help out like my mum does. She's been desperate to do this for years but I find her very annoying and she's done/said things in the past that have been really awful to DH and me (and also my family!).

She's not the most horrific MIL in the world, but she ain't perfect either. She's also said things that have made it very clear that, even though FIL totally approves of and supports our attachment parenting style, she doesn't, but just goes along with it. She's said/done stuff with my children that has really bothered me though, but I've just left it and accepted that I can't control what all other adults say and do with my children and they need to grow up knowing everyone isn't the same as me!

So she came over the week before last, armed with a craft activity to do with them. The day went well. She took them to the park and shop and was out for about 2hrs while DD4 (baby) slept and I got loads of housework done in peace, which was lovely. I looked forward to her coming again - which is bizarre for me!

She didn't come last week as we were away camping, but she came on Sunday (usually her and FIL come on the Sundays DH works as he finishes early and they get to see some of him, and we don't 'waste' one of his precious days off with them!) on her own as FIL was busy, and it was really stressful.

She took them to the shop and then refused to buy my DD1 something she'd asked for even though I said it would be ok, and she forced her to have something she didn't want. So DD1 came home in a strop (a justified one IMO), which annoyed MIL. And then DD2 asked me if they could eat their buttons before lunch (I was already surprised they hadn't eaten them on the way home). Note that she asked me, her mother. And I would normally say yes - buttons are hardly going to stop her eating lunch, and even if they did she's bound to eat more food later on. But MIL jumped in before I had a chance to answer and said 'no, you must eat lunch first'. Not a big deal, I know, but DD2 had a paddy about it, which could have been avoided, so I then had two children in a mood and me feeling very embarrassed and very paranoid about what she thought of my parenting.

I went upstairs to talk to DD1 who said she wanted to eat lunch but didn't want to come down as she was still upset with MIL. Normally I would have brought her lunch upstairs, but I was feeling worried about what MIL would think.

So MIL went home and I said to DH when he got home that I felt a bit oversensitive, that the day had been stressful and I was worried about her weekday visit. I said I felt constantly under scrutiny but that I knew I was just being paranoid, as she was just coming to support me and help me out.

We've now been invited to attend a fab weekly family thing on the day MIL's meant to come over, so DH rang her to tell her. She was a bit upset, he told me by text. I was angry with him because I thought he told her the wrong way, and didn't want her upset as she'd been so helpful and kind. When he got home, though, he told me in more detail about the conversation.

Apparently he'd said 'it's not about you, so don't be upset' and she'd replied saying 'good! But I thought I was going there to see how things were going and to check on teh children?'!!!! And then proceeded to 'report' to him about DD1 saying 'did you know she's very quiet in the day and plays on the computer quite a bit?'. DH was a star and just said 'well she was probably having a quiet day like we all do sometimes' and managed to not tell her off for thinking she was meant to be spying on me.

But I've been upset all night by it all. I feel really betrayed by my PIL, but don't really know if FIL thought she was meant to be checking up on me too, or if it's just her perception of the situation. I kind of want to ring him to ask him to ask him. He's been very kind through the whole process and I've been very honest with him. Either I've been too honest and he has told MIL to check up on me or she's got completely the wrong, and very unpleasant end of the stick.

Thanks for reading this essay - anyone got any thoughts? Not seeing them now until Sunday week, and seeing my therapist tomorrow when I'll discuss it with her, but MN is so helpful sometimes - hoping it will be this time too!

MC - she said she feels her role is to check up on her!
Yes OP I can see why this would annoy you - you're not a child, and you don't need your parenting checking up on and reporting back!
FWIW I would hope this indicates your MIL's old fashioned attitude to depression. Not sure about the best way to tackle it.
The OP made it clear this was not about chocolate buttons, anyone who read the post would have realised that.
TrillianAstra - I did think that was you, and was surprised. Glad it's not!

hi flamingo, I hope you're ok.

One thing that has really helped me with my own depression, is to challenge my assumptions about things. So if my MIL said that to me I would have to stop myself assuming that she is spying on me to undermine me, because she thinks I am a bad mother, and instead assume that she is doing it because she loves and cares for me and my family and wants to make sure we are all ok.

~Since I've been doing this I've been so much more positive about myself as well, because I'm not assuming everyone thinks badly of me all the time. IT does take some conscious thought at the time to challenge your initial assumptions, but as time goes by it gets more and more natural to assume the best.

Do you think this technique might help you?

Maybe she meant check that the children weren't giving you a hard time, rather than checking they are still alive, or that you are doing what you should be!

It is a bad turn of phrase, but in all honesty, it is not that bad. IMO.

Yes, I think it was a just a turn of phrase that she used and you have misconstrued it, as is understandable when you've got depression.

I know you say that this isn't at all to do with the choc buttons episode. But I would think that if such a trivial episode made you feel so stressed and annoyed with her, then it HAS got some bearing on the situation. FWIW, I have the opposite problem with my MIL - she is always trying to give my kids choc right before their lunch and actually it DOES put my children off their lunch because they don't have huge appetites anyway. It DOES grate a little bit when she does this, but I think she just thinks it's ok as her other GC could eat choc before lunch and still have an appetite for their lunch and she just assumes my children are the same.

But they are not - and she is now getting better about it as I have explained to her what the result would be if she offers them choc before meals. I think your MIL just thought she was trying to save you the aggro and stress of having to be the disciplinarian and say "no, not before lunch" to your DD, assumed you'd feel the same as her, and therefore she jumped in and said it. For you. From your description, it doesn't sound like you said anything to her about it but I think you might easily have said "Well, you know DD, she has a big appetite, a few choc buttons won't ruin it for lunch so she can have them."

And the incident would have passed and you woulnd't have thought anything more about it, and you would have been just a little less stressed by her visit.

I've had depression. Everyone who's had it knows that you just view situations very differently to other people. You become irrational and paranoid (paranoid is a word you mentioned yourself when talking about being worried about how your MIL viewed your parenting skills).

I know you didn't want to discuss ADs, but as many others on here have felt (and mostly put in a kind way), it's probable that you are overanalysing every minute comment, and worrying over it, and it's purely because of the way your depression makes your mind work. For me, and many others, I know, ADs were the first step to recovery for me. No amount of talking would have helped me if the ADs hadn't lifted the fog first and helped my brain to think rationally and normally again. I could have had any amount of irrational and paranoid counselling sessions, wringing my hands during them over what this person or that person (quite reasonably) had said. but I chose to get my brain thinking rationally first. 6 months I was on them, no side effects, no probs coming off them.

But that's just me. You chose NOT to use your prescription and instead ask your MIL for help. I just think you need to be aware that you won't be thinking rationally about her quite normal behaviour and instead try your hardest to see things from her point of view. It is very hard when you are depressed I know, because the depression makes you so self-absorbed. But it does sound like she is trying hard to be supportive and helpful and (in her eyes) just trying to be firm with the children to save you the hassle of being "bad cop" when you're not feeling 100%.

I wish you well.

FWIW, though, I think your DH was a bit daft to tell you what your MIL had said exactly. Men don't understand depression very well I don't think, he probably didnt realise that you might sit and worry over the "checking up on you" comment. I bet he is more annoyed over the effect the comment had on you than the comment itself.

Well put monkeytrousers
My mothers depression became all consuming, it was as if she no longer felt a person but was a "depressed" person, she took the path that was easy, and at the age of 9 I became her parent.

Everything had to be about her illness, she could not go out hardly and if she did there was always some drama, panic attacks and so on. I admit I hated her for it as much as I loved her and understood she was ill, it is a great burden on a child/family.
I truly wish she had had the support and my sister and I had the support that the OP is getting.

I think that by the sounds of the MIL she will know it is the illness being unreasonable and not the OP.

I do really think though that people who are depressed do become selfish as part of it, and unless you have stood in the shoes of someone who has to be there for them and care for them then a lot of people do not relies just how much those people are effected by the illness too.

I have just re-read the op - and some people on here are being way too hard on flamingo! She has at every turn pointed out that she didn't want to upset her MIL and that she was grateful for her help; and she has already said she felt oversensitive and paranoid so WHY do so many other posters feel the need to beat her up over it?

BUT she was upset herself that the MIL thought her remit was to check up on things and report back to DH. I can see that would irk; I also think the DH shouldn't have told her that his ma said that.

As some of the less judgey people have said, flamingo, it would probably help you to "re-frame" the meaning you have taken from what your MIL said - think of it that she was just being caring of you and the DC (as she possibly was) and thank her for her concern.

Hope you are feeling a bit better

Yes, I think the reframing thing is a good idea, as well as her having an old fashioned attitude towards depression.

Flamingo: I completely agree with thumbwitch - some people have been quite unkind to flamingo and seem to have deliberately missed her point.

Your MIL should have been there to give you help and support, NOT to check up on you and check the children were OK, and not to interfere with your parenting style. However, it's probably true also that your DH should have just set her straight gently without upsetting you by mentioning it.

I think although your MIL had got the wrong end of the stick, she probably meant well, so it would be a shame to lose her help. Hopefully you can put this behind you.

I hope seeing your therapist today is helpful and I'm sure some of the misunderstandings on this thread would not have happened face-to-face - it's just sometimes hard on email / internet.

Well I for one have learnt something from this thread as I hadn't realised that anti depresants could be so effective in making counselling worthwhile. I had always though of them as the sticking plaster rather than the cure.

They aren't a cure. What they do is alleviate the worst symptoms of depression, the symptoms that skew your perspective of the world, of yourself and your loved ones. The lift the shroud and allow you to strategise from as close as a neutral position as is possible. While you suffer from depression, clarity and planning always seem unatainable. Ad's empower you to tackle your problems head on. They are not a panacea, but they are incredible.

If you you suffer from depression becasue of your upbringing, neglect say, it's a fair bet that your stress response will be scewed and will perhaps always buckle under pressure. Without AD's people like this had no chance of living 'normal' lives and their personalities became subsumed within the depression. It was not a condition that they suffered from, it was just who they were - lost souls. Modern AD's allow people like this to find themselves.

I agree antideps work well with cognitive therapy. If I was seriously depressed I'd want both. Antidepressants help inprove your concentration and reduce the obsessional negative thoughts going round and round that often occurs in depression.
It's easier to concentrate on cognitive therapy or any other therapy if your brain is functioning better.
I see no reason not to try antidepressants.

It's NICE advice that anti d's and therapy are used together is it not? That's what DH ahs been told anyohw and he has amde gingantic steps with the protocol.

I have enough experience of depression to shakke a whole tree at: severely depressed mum, severely depressed DH...... and I do see some of that in your post flamingo for which you have my sympathy, depression is a bastard illness. I don;t know how I feel about your MIL as my own is quite ill herself (OCD, anorexia etc) and our relationship became so destructive that we cut contact and I do not see things from a very unbiased standpoint on that theme. I did however wish to post to say I hope you feel well soon, and that please ignore Kimi / Trillian as this is not AIBU and they (or she, there have been suggestions elsewhere on MN this past day) have no right being unsupportive.

Oh FFS another 2 year old thread.