Feeling betrayed by PIL

[flamingobingo]

I've been thinking about this all night and have decided that a bit of advice from MN might be very helpful right now.

Basically I've been suffering from depression on and off my whole life. I've always been able to put each episode down to something going on at the time - having a baby, or final year at uni etc. But during an episode in January I decided enough was enough and decided to start counselling.

My FIL is a psychotherapist and found a lovely therapist for me and offered to pay for some of it. My parents are paying the rest. Both sets of parents have been hugely supportive, as I've discovered that all my episodes of depression are linked, and as I learn more and more about myself and my life.

I'm still having episodes of depression though and, of course, they affect my children which really worries me. My mum comes over twice a week for the day, DH has a day off during the week and a weekend day off every other weekend. I have lovely friends who are helping out too - one of whom looks after all my 4 DCs while I go to one of my two counselling sessions each week. I have two days a week 'on my own' with the children, where I try to get out, see friends etc.

A couple of weeks ago I had yet another really difficult patch and I got a prescription for anti-depressants, which I had avoided so far. In the end I decided not to take them (please don't talk about the anti-ds though, they have had much discussion!) but ask MIL if she would come over on her day off each week to help out like my mum does. She's been desperate to do this for years but I find her very annoying and she's done/said things in the past that have been really awful to DH and me (and also my family!).

She's not the most horrific MIL in the world, but she ain't perfect either. She's also said things that have made it very clear that, even though FIL totally approves of and supports our attachment parenting style, she doesn't, but just goes along with it. She's said/done stuff with my children that has really bothered me though, but I've just left it and accepted that I can't control what all other adults say and do with my children and they need to grow up knowing everyone isn't the same as me!

So she came over the week before last, armed with a craft activity to do with them. The day went well. She took them to the park and shop and was out for about 2hrs while DD4 (baby) slept and I got loads of housework done in peace, which was lovely. I looked forward to her coming again - which is bizarre for me!

She didn't come last week as we were away camping, but she came on Sunday (usually her and FIL come on the Sundays DH works as he finishes early and they get to see some of him, and we don't 'waste' one of his precious days off with them!) on her own as FIL was busy, and it was really stressful.

She took them to the shop and then refused to buy my DD1 something she'd asked for even though I said it would be ok, and she forced her to have something she didn't want. So DD1 came home in a strop (a justified one IMO), which annoyed MIL. And then DD2 asked me if they could eat their buttons before lunch (I was already surprised they hadn't eaten them on the way home). Note that she asked me, her mother. And I would normally say yes - buttons are hardly going to stop her eating lunch, and even if they did she's bound to eat more food later on. But MIL jumped in before I had a chance to answer and said 'no, you must eat lunch first'. Not a big deal, I know, but DD2 had a paddy about it, which could have been avoided, so I then had two children in a mood and me feeling very embarrassed and very paranoid about what she thought of my parenting.

I went upstairs to talk to DD1 who said she wanted to eat lunch but didn't want to come down as she was still upset with MIL. Normally I would have brought her lunch upstairs, but I was feeling worried about what MIL would think.

So MIL went home and I said to DH when he got home that I felt a bit oversensitive, that the day had been stressful and I was worried about her weekday visit. I said I felt constantly under scrutiny but that I knew I was just being paranoid, as she was just coming to support me and help me out.

We've now been invited to attend a fab weekly family thing on the day MIL's meant to come over, so DH rang her to tell her. She was a bit upset, he told me by text. I was angry with him because I thought he told her the wrong way, and didn't want her upset as she'd been so helpful and kind. When he got home, though, he told me in more detail about the conversation.

Apparently he'd said 'it's not about you, so don't be upset' and she'd replied saying 'good! But I thought I was going there to see how things were going and to check on teh children?'!!!! And then proceeded to 'report' to him about DD1 saying 'did you know she's very quiet in the day and plays on the computer quite a bit?'. DH was a star and just said 'well she was probably having a quiet day like we all do sometimes' and managed to not tell her off for thinking she was meant to be spying on me.

But I've been upset all night by it all. I feel really betrayed by my PIL, but don't really know if FIL thought she was meant to be checking up on me too, or if it's just her perception of the situation. I kind of want to ring him to ask him to ask him. He's been very kind through the whole process and I've been very honest with him. Either I've been too honest and he has told MIL to check up on me or she's got completely the wrong, and very unpleasant end of the stick.

Thanks for reading this essay - anyone got any thoughts? Not seeing them now until Sunday week, and seeing my therapist tomorrow when I'll discuss it with her, but MN is so helpful sometimes - hoping it will be this time too!

I find your post very moving, Fruitysunshine. You sound like an extremely brave and lovely person, as does your mother-in-law.

From what you have said you are lucky to have such a supportive family, who willing give up their time and money to help you out.

Children should not be allowed to eat chocolate before lunch/dinner your MIL is right.

Also I do not think she sees it as spying on you she is trying to keep her son in the loop[ as to what is going on.

I can totally understand why you feel upset and betrayed about being "spied on" - but I can also see that your MIL just thought she was doing her best to help, especially her grandchildren.

I do think your DH was the one who made the biggest mistake in telling you and upsetting you unnecessarily, rather than just setting his mother straight.

Kimi, there's no hard and fast rule about chocolate buttons, and they really aren't the issue here.

I think that actually she sounds ok - I havent ever even heard of attachement parenting and I am twenty seven.

She sounds more like she was concerned for you as you are suffering from an ongoing mental illness and tried to support you in a way that could conceivably have been pushy.

You have said yourself that your illness can impact on the kids and perhaps she sees that too and worries for them - you might not like the fact but you are ill and I think you are blowing this out of proportion.

Bottyspottom (fab name btw) - thank you for your post. I am pleased that at least a couple of people on here have responded to what the issue actually is rather than focus on bloody chocolate buttons!

Nearly everyone else's posts have been helpful, but still not actually realising the real issue

And Kimi - how dare you! It's not about chocolate buttons, and your post is not in anyway helpful at all.

Flamingo - I can totally see where you're coming from, in your shoes I'd be raging tbh. fwiw I'd get your dh to tackle it in a low key way, next time she makes a comment about checking on the children/keeping an eye on you he should just say "Mum, don't be ridiculous! Flamingo doesn't need supervising/reporting back to me etc etc", put her right in a light hearted/jovial manner.

If she persists after that then you've got a bigger problem on your hands.

Flamingo

It sounds to me like most of it was the usual sort of MIL-DIL interaction (which in my own case can go from wonderful to treacherous in a matter of minutes) and the only bit of concern that she thought that she was meant to be checking on you and the kids and you thought she was just there to help out.

It sounds like everyone involved needs to be clear on what the situation really is. From your post it sounded like that was that you are currently suffering from a specific bout of depression (albeit in a chronic situation) and you have DH both sets of parents helping you in the home to help you to work through that more easily. NOT needing checking on. Sounds like FIL is open and knows where you are coming from. Can you just have them over for a cuppa (or whatever) and gently say to them (without singling MIL out) how things should be and how much you appreciate their support without making a big deal of it?

Regarding the reporting back bit - I wouldn't be concerned about that in itself - my DH would chat to MIL about how I am (e.g. after having baby or other significant event) - but obviously the context needs to be appropriate IYSWIM.

It sounds like things are generally going really well with the arrangement and that you have found the right way to tackle your depression.

How dare I what, say you are lucky to have so much help?
Say it is not a big thing for a grandparent to say not to eat chocolate before a meal?
Or to say that you MIL telling your husband what she is worried about is ok?

Sorry I only have an opinion on what you have said and not a magic wand.

I wish when my mother was battling with depression when I was a child she had had such a good, strong and loving support network instead of 9 year old me.

I don't understand the issue here really. It sounds to me that in the circumstances (OP has depression and needs help looking after DCs) it is entirely normal for OPs family to be discussing her and how she's getting on.

If I went to help out a family member who was ill etc then I'd naturally discuss how it went with any other family member who asked. This is an expression of interest, concern and love - not spying or checking up.

I think that so often on here MILs can do no right for doing wrong. It just seems that even as OP is asking for her help, she suspects her, feels threatened by her and is basically hostile to her presence and most of the things she says and does.

I understand that you are ill OP, but it sounds like you are getting great support from your DH and his family. I'd say don't risk that by blowing up simple and natural conversations into attacks on you or your parenting.

flamingobingo, I am so sorry you are having such a bad time, however I think having a go at a poster because she dares to say you are lucky or you MIL is right is not very nice.
You made the chocolate buttons an issue by putting it in your post, and while I know it must be hard for you, letting your children do/ have what they want to prevent a tantrum is not going to help anyone in the long run really.

You are lucky people give so much support to you, and while depression is making you see small things as massive problems you really do need to not have a go at someone who disagrees with you, if you did not want varied opinions then you should not have posted.

I said how dare you to the phrase: "Children should not be allowed to eat chocolate before lunch/dinner your MIL is right."

It's completely irrelevant and a direct attack on what I think is ok. That was what I was saying 'how dare you' about.

I don't let my children have what they want to avoid a tantrum. I have not had a go at anyone else who has disagreed with me.

It just sounds like you are looking to take any little comment as an attack on you.

There will be any number of people - including your inlaws - who don't share your exact views on parenting, just as you wouldn't always do things their way.

It doesn't mean they don't love and support you, or that they think you're an awful parent.

I'm afraid I don't understand what the issue is either, bearing in mind you are stating in no uncertain terms that it isn't to do with the chocolate buttons and eating upstairs.

Your mil obviously thought that she had been asked to help you out and to help out with the children - so that's keeping an eye on them isn't it? You didn't ask her because you fancied her company, you asked her - and indeed have lots of outside help - because presumably you aren't able to care for your dc's 100% at the moment by yourself.

Your mil is always going to have a different parenting style to yours (sorry, but I've never heard of attachment parenting, so no idea about that) and it is inevitable that things are going to be said and done differently. I have to politely remind my mil how I like things too

I don't think she thought she was spying on you. You imagine if your mil were unwell and you went and helped out with her while fil went to work. Wouldn't it be natural for you to talk about things that had been said or done to fil or dh? I think you are being over-sensitive to it - sorry.

I know how hard it is to keep perspective on things whilst you have depression as I have suffered for over nine years on and off but quite severely for the past four since my mum died but I receive almost zero outside support and it is really hard, so I think it would be beneficial to you to keep mil on side, at least for now

I see so kimi is the only poster you have a problem with, and all over the chocolate buttons.

I think that shows how you are blowing all things out of proportion.

If you feel you are being "reported" on by your MIL then stop having her help you so much, she is looking in on you and looking after you, and she is good to do so.
I think your DH needs to keep what he and his mother discuss between him and her and not tell you what has been said if it is going to cause you so much hurt.

Scrummymummy - thanks

Agree with all those who have said you have blown this out of proportion but suspect you are not able to 'hear' those opinions, only those that agree with you.

The way you have reacted to Kimi also reinforces this.

Your family is giving you an awful lot of love and support, emotionally and financially and I think it's probably best to focus on this rather than some badly thought out comments of your mil, which your dh shouldn't have passed on to you.

Please please bring this up with your counsellor, it may be helpful to sound out your feelings. I think we all feel like our MILs are taking over and checking up on us at some point. I remember going crazy when mine sorted out my washing. If she commented on anything about me, which she never has, to my DH I would feel she was sticking her nose in. But I have no background of, diagnosed!, mental health issues and so I can put it into a little box knowing that I'm very unreasonable when it comes to my MIL.

I do think in the context of this post your MIL seems very nice and concerned for her GC, which bypasses you which is very normal. Perhaps this is the tip of the iceberg?

I am trying really hard to think of something supportive to say because if you are suffering from depression it's tough, I know, I've been there. I also know that when I am depressed I can be extremely sensitive and difficult to live with.

There's just a couple of observations I would make.

Firstly, you invited your MIL to spend her one day off a week supporting you because you are depressed. I asume that is how you framed it to her ie I need your help with the kids, I am down? In which case, I don't think it is unreasonable that she saw her role as 'checking up' on you.

You go on to imply in your post that by inviting her to give up her day off to support you, you were actually doing her a massive favour because she has been desperate to help out for years in the same way that your mum does. So, did you invite her for your benefit or for her benefit?

Secondly, a better offer comes up (a fab family thing) on your MIL's day off and you get your DH to tell her that she is now surplus to requirements. Do you think that's fair? Or do you think you are entirely justified in disposing of her because she annoys you?

I am sure someone will come along and tell you that she is toxic, but before they do, could you turn the mirror on yourself and ask if you really have the moral highground in this dynamic. Are you beyond reproach. Are you handling your relationship with your MIL like a reasonable adult? Are you being fair or are you setting her up for a fall.

I think that the real issue here is that you need to decide whether or not you want your MIL to stop coming over for the day. If you feel that her visits are making you feel undermined and unhappy then I would question whether that's a good thing for you at the moment, given that you are battling depression. Does it have to be your MIL that helps you out, or could you pay for a nanny/cleaner/whatever to help you instead?

I am sure lots more people will come along and tell you being depressed means you can have it all your way and everyone else is wrong and everyone should run round you and do it your way, be sensitive to your feelings, never say anything you do not want to hear, pander to your needs blah blah blah...

Instead of slagging off a woman who comes to help you and pays towards your counselling maybe you should take the ADs and get on with it and let the others have their lives back instead of having to babysit you.

If this was in AIBU I would say yes very.

Flamingo.

Mental illness is hard to deal with in so many ways so perhaps you could get a bit of perspective by thinking how you would have reacted if your illness was something very different. Imagine for example you had broken your leg and your MIL was coming round to help out - would you feel as annoyed by her comments as you do now? Perhaps you would - only you know the details of exactly what went on so it is impossible for any of us to get the whole picture. On the other hand perhaps you are feeling a little defensive about the implication that you can't cope with your own children and need "spying on" and that may relate as much to your own fragile state of mind as to what she actually did.

She didn't come last week as we were away camping, but she came on Sunday (usually her and FIL come on the Sundays DH works as he finishes early and they get to see some of him, and we don't 'waste' one of his precious days off with them!) on her own as FIL was busy, and it was really stressful.

But she is happy to spend her day off with you.

I am sorry but I think your PIL sound great and you are being unfair on them

i have suffered terribly with depression in the past, it is really easy to see throw away comments as totally undermining and disparaging remarks

your MIL is helping you out and , as she would if you had any other illness, discussing your progress with her son.

surely it is normal, when one family member is ill, for other family members especially those helping out , to discuss things?

and i imagine it wsa done in a way to ensure that your DH knows what is what as she was concerned for you

you can't have it both ways, have their help and their money for counselling, but get annoyeed when your illness is discussed with their son

and i mean that really nicely

Flamingo bingo, i know this must be a difficult time for you but you must be able to see it from your MIL POV on the one hand you are asking for quite alot of help with the childcare but you don't want her to make descisions.
Her behaviour seems like totally normal grandma behaviour to me, annoying as it is its just one of those things and i can understand her concern for her grandchildren espescially if she feels the way your dd behaved ie having a strop was abnormal. I would not be happy with my dd behaving like this toward any of her gp who had been kind enough to take her out, that must be quite upsetting for her.

I don't want to at you and i hope i haven't offended i just know that when i suffered with PND by rationalising wasn't always the best and i was often (in hindsight) horribly paranoid. It sounds like they have/are being incredibly supportive in many ways but i'm sure they can't just switch off there opinions.