Thought it was getting better . . .

[whatanothernamechange]

Having been to an initial counselling session and H has been doing a lot more, making helpful / caring comments etc, I really thought maybe he is serious about change. Don't know if i'm over-reacting. Went to gp about urine infection and discussed home situation. Gp said he was just a "typical man" and I should "ignore" any nasty comments / ignoring me etc, and find something else to do. Even saying the thought of staying in this situation is intolerable, and the thought of breaking up the family makes me feel awful, and at times I feel like I just can't go on didn't really seem to register with her. She said marriage is hard and you have to work on it. Well I was almost feeling friendly to Dh when he came home (today was also better because after a week at home with "stress" he went back to work). Then I tried to phone a friend with his phone (on his say so) and he pointed out that he'd changed his pin. When I asked why, he went really cagey. Then this evening he went off to talk with a male "friend". He came back quite "chipper" and so I said "how did it go?" and again he got cagey and said "You know, the last four weeks?" and I said "well what about it?" and he was cagey. I got cross and said he was back to the same old s**t of not talking to me and he said "don't talk to me like that". The thing is, I know this person he has been talking to is not the most discrete, so tomorrow I imagine the school playground will be an interesting place to be. I'm so upset. He has been going on about me being open and so on with him, when he is keeping things from me just as he has always done. I'm very sad. Am seeing WA again tomorrow. GP was a church person and asked whether I wanted what I had said to go on my record and I said yes please. Maybe he's been right and I've been a bad wife all these years.

He's acting like a spoilt child. Doesn't matter how much you might want to work on the marriage, if he's got no respect for your boundaries (or health) it's not going to make a difference is it?

Is there anywhere you can go for a proper scream from time to time? Take a cushion into a wardrobe or something? Cos it's so much more healthy for you to be angry than to get depressed, but I understand you can't show much of either in front of the DCs.

When is it you're off to Relate? Will you tell them you're talking to WA?

I go out for long bike rides when it gets too much. Relate in in just over a week. I may tell them if it comes up, why do you ask?

This morning when I cam back from my job (had to leave the house at 5.30am and do 2 hours work) he had not dressed dd4, given the kids their breakfast or made sandwiches, so basically i ahd to do everything in half an hour before heading out to school. When I said he should have done it, he said "but I've been doing the laundry", I pointed out that laundry was not such a high priority when we need to go to school.

Relate may explain that they can't counsel in abusive situations - because they're very aware that the perpetrator is often very good at manipulating the situation to appear wronged...

And re the laundry - he's deliberately setting up situations where he can be a 'victim' for trying to do the right thing but not being good enough. I'm afraid you can't rely on him at all for useful help around the house - but you knew that anyway, didn't you? He's quite happy for your children to suffer as long as he's pushing your buttons.

We just had a sermon on husbands and wives and what was preached at my current church is the same as at my 2 previous ones.

I quote from the sermon

"there is no justification for abuse within marriage whether it is emotional, physical or spiritual"

about wives being submissive "only behaviour that is respectful needs to be submitted to"

He IS abusing you and that is not right, it is not what God wants for you. I hope it helps to be told in black and white that he is not being a christian husband as God would have him be so don't let others pressure you into staying with an abusive man.

I have not been able to complete the piece of work that I needed to do for the now job that I am meant to be starting in September. I have been under such pressure with all of this. H could have very easily helped me if he truly loved me and wanted to support and care for me as he claims. Instead this week he has upset me and caused me to be so sleep deprived and exhausted that I am unable to focus or concentrate on anything for very long. I have two degrees and yet I can't even complete this relatively simple task. I have asked him repeatedly to leave and HE WON'T. I'm down about as far as I can go right now.

I'm so sorry, this is a long thread and I've only just got to the end...I probably started reading just after you posted..
Hope you've either got to sleep or chatting elsewhere.

No I'm still here not knowing what to do, unable to sleep and wondering whether this could actually be my fault

Its not your fault, but nothing gets better when you're shattered- you've got a 3 year old- get some SLEEP! Mine are MUCH bigger and I'll probably be up before them!

I can't say anything better than Dittany has! Just to let you know I'm thinking about you, and I know you'll find the strength to do what you need to do.

xx

btw - Dittany - would you mind emailing me? thedreadpirateofmn at googlemail dot com

One other thing - just thought I'd copy this in for you - don't know whether you've got/read any Lundy Bancroft yet, but this is what he says about the confusion between love and abuse in the mind of the abuser... Might help you keep your perspective?

" So is [the abusive man] lying when he says he loves you? No, usually not. Most of my clients do feel a powerful sensation inside that they call love. For many of them it is the only kind of feeling toward a female partner that they have ever had, so they have no way of knowing that it isn?t love. When an abusive man feels the powerful stirring inside that other people call love, he is probably largely feeling:

• The desire to have you devote your life to keeping him happy with no outside interference
• The desire to have sexual access
• The desire to impress others by having you be his partner
• The desire to possess and control you

These desires are important aspects of what romantic love means to him. He may well be capable of feeling genuine love for you, but first he will have to dramatically reorient his outlook in order to separate abusive and possessive desires from true caring, and become able to really see you.

The confusion of love with abuse is what allows abusers who kill their partners to make the absurd claim that they were driven by the depths of their loving feelings. The news media regrettably often accept the aggressors? view of these acts, describing them as ?crimes of passion.? But what could more thoroughly prove that a man did not love his partner? If a mother were to kill one of her children, would we ever accept the claim that she did it because she was overwhelmed by how much she cared? Not for an instant. Nor should we. Genuine love means respecting the humanity of the other person, wanting what is best for him or her, and supporting the other person?s self-esteem and independence. This kind of love is incompatible with abuse and coercion.

?Abusive men come in every personality type, arise from good childhoods and bad, are macho men or gentle, ?liberated? men. No psychological test can distinguish an abusive man from a respectful one. Abusiveness is not a product of a man?s emotional injuries or of deficits in his skills?Abuse is a problem of values, not psychology. When someone challenges an abuser?s attitudes and beliefs, he tends to reveal the contemptuous and insulting personality that normally stays hidden, reserved for private attacks on his partner. An abuser tries to keep everyone ? his partner, his therapist, his friends and relatives ? focused on how he feels, so that they won?t focus on how he thinks, perhaps because on some level he is aware that if you grasp the true nature of his problem, you will then be able to escape his domination."

I got it done, but it was a poor excuse for a piece of work. I submitted it with an apology. The lady that runs the course understands the situation though. At least I did it. Went for a 9mile bike ride this morning so am feeling better in myself though tired. This morning at 5.30 i I was far too shattered etc to go out to work for 2 hours so going to do it tomorrow. He's being encouraging today, so . . .

Thanks everyone. And dpr I really appreciate you typing all that out for me. Dit, don't worry, I'm quite stubborn when I want to be. It is hard though when you are so tired and someone keeps on saying that none of this is deliberate and that it's all my mis-perception and paranoia.

• just cut and paste -

I am feeling almost high at the moment. I have found a way of buying songs on the internet so that I can listen to them on my phone, and have managed to download my own songs onto the computer, a step away from putting them on the internet. And no help from any man!

Brilliant! Send me one?!

thinking of you.

Have you booked an appointment with a solicitor or anything? Perhaps the only way forward is to issue divorce proceedings?

Dpr I will do that as soon as I work out how to, in my experience they are too large to email. I may open a myspace account. Cargirl H has come on mn and looked at and added to my threads before, so I limit what I say on here now with regard to "official stuff."
Once again he has not put the kids to bed properly so dd4 is still up and she's been shattered all day and when I came upstairs he had covered half the bed with clean laundry again. Last time he blamed dd1. This time he can't because she's not here. He's been out of the house since 8 - .

We had more church friends round today. A couple. H took the man out into the garden and spent quite a long time talking to him while I talked to his wife. They really are a wonderful couple. After H finished talking, my friend's husband came in and gave me a hug. Said nothing. We had a chilled out time and H has not barraged at all and we've even laughed at stuff without him trying to get close or touch me. However, my barriers are still up. He keeps acting as if the recent conversation regarding more space never occurred and talking about what we are going to do next year and so on. Which obviously is very subtle. It has been a nice day. I did 16 miles on the bike and am feeling it. The only thing was I found his thyroid meds had been left out on the dressing table. Not good when 3year old wandering about. . I'm knackered now. Hope I sleep.

Hi WANC
How are you doing today?

I wasn't going to post on this, because subtlety is tricky. It is really almost down to splitting hairs. But that is what the manipulators do.

I am glad you had a good time with friends and I am also glad you still have your barriers up because

imho

he is starting over with you.

If he has truly changed, that is good, nay, really great! But in reality what are the chances that he has really changed? I would have doubts about it, but that is just me.

His dismissiveness of the recent conversation about more space is a red flag. It is super great that you noticed that!

The "making plans" is a strategy to keep you hooked in with obligations that you "promised" to do whatever. Then if you don't-back on the drama triangle (villain).

Don't make plans, be evasive. "You could not possibly schedule anything that far ahead" (even a week ).

Does your friend's husband hug you often? That just sounded a little off to me. And, well, sorry about this too, but the beginning of the thread is about how everyone else thought your dh was so wonderful and you were a wonderful couple. So this "wonderful couple" that you had over... ...maybe they have some skeletons in their closets because it sounds like friend's h may have been coaching yours in the fine arts of manipulation, especially if h's behavior seemed on a brand new direction after this 'meeting'.

He hugged you and said nothing. Did you have any kind of little feeling at all about it? Did your friend see it-what did she say?

Keep your guard up and stay focused.

No, he doesn't hug often, but they really are very special friends and he is a good man.
However, today was H's birthday. I got him a small present (no money) and card, then made him a cooked breakfast, even let him give me a hug to say thank you. Then while he went to church with the kids, I baked marble fairy cakes with chocolate butter cream icing and got curry and roti ready for lunch. When they got back, the kids told me that there was a church picnic on so I wrapped all the food up in towels and took it out to the park. H ate his food, went to play "catch" with one of the other men. I wandered off and met a friend who I had a long chat with. She's in the same position as me, but further on. For the rest of the afternoon, H sulked and spoke to me in grunts. Then later he went out then texted me that he loved me, that God had forgiven him and he (H ) wanted us to be together as a family. I couldn't answer as the texts made me so angry. When he came back I expected a barraging, but there was nothing. He wasn't around when I was giving the kids tea, and it was nice.