Thought it was getting better . . .

[whatanothernamechange]

Having been to an initial counselling session and H has been doing a lot more, making helpful / caring comments etc, I really thought maybe he is serious about change. Don't know if i'm over-reacting. Went to gp about urine infection and discussed home situation. Gp said he was just a "typical man" and I should "ignore" any nasty comments / ignoring me etc, and find something else to do. Even saying the thought of staying in this situation is intolerable, and the thought of breaking up the family makes me feel awful, and at times I feel like I just can't go on didn't really seem to register with her. She said marriage is hard and you have to work on it. Well I was almost feeling friendly to Dh when he came home (today was also better because after a week at home with "stress" he went back to work). Then I tried to phone a friend with his phone (on his say so) and he pointed out that he'd changed his pin. When I asked why, he went really cagey. Then this evening he went off to talk with a male "friend". He came back quite "chipper" and so I said "how did it go?" and again he got cagey and said "You know, the last four weeks?" and I said "well what about it?" and he was cagey. I got cross and said he was back to the same old s**t of not talking to me and he said "don't talk to me like that". The thing is, I know this person he has been talking to is not the most discrete, so tomorrow I imagine the school playground will be an interesting place to be. I'm so upset. He has been going on about me being open and so on with him, when he is keeping things from me just as he has always done. I'm very sad. Am seeing WA again tomorrow. GP was a church person and asked whether I wanted what I had said to go on my record and I said yes please. Maybe he's been right and I've been a bad wife all these years.

Also had small talk with church friend (who has known H longer than I have) she didn't judge, and just nodded when I said "you know what he's like"

I looked at the article on NPD in churches, and I have to say it did ring alarm bells. Especially the bit about portraying themselves as the victim.

I am glad you are beginning to realize that your perspective is the truth of the your situation (and I am glad you will not continue to tolerate any of it). His situation is he needs an emotional (if not physical) slave...and he is because he will have to start all over with someone else.

It also sounds like you are doubting yourself less and less, and I think it is because you have clarity. You see through the scam of his brainwashing now.

Love is good and 'makes the world go round'....yada, yada; but it doesn't excuse everything, does it? I feel from your recent posts that you are understanding more on your own behalf. We do need to think about ourselves and that is not the same as selfishness.

If you are going to pursue Relate, I hope you will do copious amounts of homework before you go. The "NPD in churches" is an example of the type of information that is online that can help you greatly. Look up "Borderline Personality Disorder", "Narcissism (NPD)", "Personality Disorders" and there may be marriage counseling advice on line, too. The more you know and the better you develop your vocabulary to talk about it, there will be less chance you will be overwhelmed in the Relate session.

Good for you for your outing-when is the next one?

Thanks tmsb, will probably have to wait as money is tight. Unless I can find a willing friend with a big garden. Going to research as advised. It's funny, but all me this is starting to make sense of the niggles I have had over the years, and can explain so much about why I have felt so incapable and such a failure. Also explains I think the fits of unexplained crying and anxiety. Hmm

All of, not all me.

Oh I'm really fed up today. I seem to have gone backwards. Passed OM on the road in the car. Floods of tears, had DD4 saying "Don't be cryin mum it'll be OK". H this morning was listening to some Christian teaching and is "fasting". This has made me very annoyed, especially as he has since accused me of being rude to him - we had a conversation on the phone, the conversation finished, I said bye and put the phone down. And he has said I'm in a bad mood and he's fasting. It's meant to be a private matter, and fasting is not going to make me love or want to be with him. Even God does not force people, He gives us free choice. Aaaargh! .
Aaaargh! At least I have another session with WA tomorrow.

Also, look up the "Drama Triangle". It describes the manipulative tactics using a triad of positions-villain, rescuer, and victim.

It seems like before he may have been "rescuer" in saving you from "going to he**". But now, definitely playing the victim and trying to get you to "rescue" him, if not then you are a "villain".

Just don't participate. As Dittany suggested, give non-confrontational, non-commitment type answers.

Oh, really?
Ummm, maybe.
I'll think about it.

Re: the OM...I would think you have enough on your plate right now. It might serve you well to take a break from thinking about him, a la-you are just common and indifferent acquaintences for a while.

Have looked up the triange and personality disorders. Just been reduced to tears again. He was washing up and wanted me to dry up with him, and started complaining that I treat him like he's infectious. I have cried so much lately that my eyes actually sting when I cry now. Had to go out for a hard bike ride to get it out of my system. I can't bear it and I really don't know what he expects me to say any more.

Ummm...funny he should say that: he is infectious to you. It is part of the drama triangle-complaining that you are treating him bad=you villain. You know where it is coming from and why-just walk away. Well done on the bike ride.

Crying may be coming from a different source-the deep sadness that your marriage is not 'happily ever after'. Your soul is in mourning. Cry on and don't feel that you shouldn't. There will come a time when you are done crying and that will be that.

Slight slip, WANC-"I really don't know what he expects me to say any more"...
I know this is a delicate dance, but you are not his puppet any more. His expectations is essentially what all of this is about, isn't it? You are not bowing to his expectations any more. You are civil and a reasonable person-if that isn't good enough for him then he can pound sand.
You do not have to spend one microsecond trying to figure out what he wants to hear so you can say it.

If you do not want to be physically in close proximity to him, then don't be. If he can't figure it out then say it-"I do not want to be next to you right now." Remember-no excuses or apologies for what you feel-you do not need to offer a discertation for validation-your feelings are already valid.

FOCUS.

I am sorry this post is so long. It is hard to find the right words-it is a complex idea for complex circumstances.

Hang in there. All the crying is, I think, a sign of healing. Maybe you have not 'hit bottom' yet, but you will and then things will be so much better for you. Take care.

Thanks tmsb. I have been thinking about it and it's just all the disruption that it's going to cause to the kids and all the hassle I'm probably going to get because "he's such a nice guy." My friend who came round has been a bit silent with me, he was so good and hands on with the kids yesterday while she was here, but when we were alone he then reduced me to tears again. (He asked what he could do to help, then when I suggested he wash up about 4 or 5 things but didn't want to stand next to him and talk and dry up, he first accused me of treating him like a slave and then said I wasn't making enough effort to try to make it work). I have to listen to what my inner voice is saying. I'm trying to be strong now. Today he got phoned up by a cold caller from a very expensive gym offering him free 4 weeks trial. Of course he's going to take up the offer because "they called him", and he's given them his credit card details which are a condition of the free trial! Actually it's because he's been hankering after membership to this gym for ages. He's not done anything about getting debt counselling as he said he would. Oh well . . . . cant go into more details here but . . .

But you can cut up the credit card, and phone the gym to cancel the trial... wasn't getting rid of the card one of the things he agreed to?

No I'm very definately getting there with the decision but you know . . . . . . Had a long chat with the church friend from the weekend and I think I need to just steer away from people who put down my opinions and feelings at the moment. She was really supportive and non-judgemental said she'd known us long time and him even longer and had observed. Also that people don't tend to change out of these patterns. No talk of "miracles" etc. Also got to chat to friend who I thought was being silent, and she agreed that he did appear nice, but she still believed me because her previous relationship was abusive so she knows what they can be like. I wouldn't have believed it of her husband either. He seemed lovely.

Oh hurrah then - someone who knows exactly how it can be! Apart from the time that you have to spend around him, do you feel that you're getting stronger? You certainly sound it

Yes I feel ok, but it has taken so much out of me. This morning, he went of to work saying goodbye in a "breaking and about to cry" type voice, so of course I was left with howling three year old who was really upset by that. Roll on Monday week. He's out this evening anyway so . . . .

I'm sorry, but he sounds like such a drama queen I'd be tempted to laugh at him for that . Would that be possible? At all? It's such a toxic atmosphere for a child, maybe making light of it (silly Daddy being silly again) would be better for the 3yo? Please don't hesitate to flame me if I'm being inappropriate

It does sound as if it would be better to deal with it like that, but I was feeling quite emotional myself although I wasn't actually sounding or looking like I was about to cry like he was. I couldn't dig within myself and lighten things. I'm meant to be getting an assignment done today and I can't concentrate. I am very weepy. What do people do on situations like this? How do I approach it? I really want the kids to be ok most of all.

How about just rehearsing a few key phrases ready for situations he creates? If you've practised beforehand, it's easier to find the words and squash the emotional response - a bit like, no actually a lot like - responding to young children when they say 'I hate you', 'you don't love me', 'you always say/do that', 'you have to do this now' etc etc...

yes, he has been phoning and facebooking, because I have arranged a music session tomorrow, and he said I never told him, and then accused me of announcing it on facebook and not telling him, and then responding to someone else on facebook before I answered him. I managed to calmly explain that I had told him last week and also that I'd not had my phone on me or seen the facebook until both messages were on there. And he says I jump to conclusions. Uch! I should have addressed all of this years ago, if I had then I would not be such an emotional wreck now, and OM situation would not have happened.

I think you need to prepare yourself, rather brace yourself, because he is going to ramp up the drama, and it may get pretty extreme.

I hope that at this, or some near, point you will know in your heart-brain-and soul, that anything he starts in on will just be a tactic to control you. You don't need to know more, you don't need to even give him audience.

"It is already over, I am not going back." Might be a good key phrase.

Try to anticipate him and plan diversions for these departure times or other circumstances of "drama". I mean dump a cup of milk on dc and then "oh, to the tub!" (not literally, well-maybe ). Not being available physically and/or being distracted by something else-will help you shield your emotions from him.

I know it is hard because we were brought up to be nice and polite. He is playing this against you. Develope skills of dismissiveness. I now it is rude, but you need to do it.

He's been very stroppy this evening. I had a friend over for a long, long chat and so when he band home and I think was hoping to I don't know what, he unexpectedly had to put "nice head" on and not make me cry. Instead I've come upstairs to find he has chucked stuff all over the bed like the big laundry basket still full of socks. And various other bits of clothing (Which he knows I hate). Also bumped into OM today, this time to speak to, and he knew about all the stuff I have been up to since mid may, and he said "he only there was a way round it." looked in my eyes, hung his head and went off. So thanks that's 2 people messing with my head. I managed to hold it together though. Just! My friend this evening made a really helpful suggestion that I hadn't thought of. . . .

Typo's, combination of predictive text and not wearing glasses while doing message. Band = came, he = if. H has slept upstairs in dd's room, and I have been woken because he has music playing. Just loud enough for me to hear and keep me awake. Been awake since before 3! I can't do this any more! This is not working and it is screwing with my head! Just went in to try and stop the music and he'd set it with a number code that I don't know, so I took it to the farthest point in the house. Then he came into my room saying "where's my phone?" and when I said it had been too noisy and kept me awake, he said "sorry!" it was quite loud I have to say, when I picked it up, and playing christian music! Aaaargh!