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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

time to leave and getting cold feet....bit long please bear with me

129 replies

messymissy · 19/05/2009 09:59

tried posting this early and the site crashed! so here goes again...

Have posted on lots of threads and taken advice and inspiration and hope from many of them, then read other threads about the realities of dealing with an ex-p, access, recriminations, money and so on and it frightens me to death.

Been with dp for nearly 4 years, we have a 2y daughter. the abuse started slowly about 18 months ago (feels like a life time) with him nitt picking, complaining about everything, my appearance, the house work, and some so petty they can't be believed - too many suds in the washing up water...and so on and so on.

He then lost his temper when i shouted back and shook me so violently i fell over.

Since then there have been several other aggressive attacks, dragged me down the stairs by my ankles, tried to strangle me while dd was screaming on the bed next to me - because he said i was a liar - i had fallen asleep with dd and hadn't come down to do the ironing.

There have only been a few incidents, but the verbal/emotional abuse is every few days.

Despite trying to reason with him, he still feels that he was justified cos lots of men get wound up by the housework and if I did it all when and how he likes it, then he would not get wound up. So he thinks its my fault obviously. - backed up by his mum who thinks this is normal, that i provoked him and because one time i hit back she says i am just as bad as him.

Anyway to cut a long story short, after months of put downs and him swearing I have had enough - just on sunday he sat with dd on his lap and told me I was talking shit - i am fed up of pleading with him not to do this and trying to get him to understand just how damaging it is for a young girl to see her mum put down like this. Then last night the penny dropped - he does know, he just doesn't care, he knows it upsets me, he knows I would rather bite my tongue than argue back in front of dd so he tries harder and harder to provoke a reaction out of me.

If I do answer back he then says - see you are loosing it, you are unstable, you are neurotic etc etc

Trouble is, after months of persuasion he is actually making a bit more of an effort to play with dd and she has at last begun to want to play with him. Is it too little too late?

I have the chance to buy into a shared ownership house, many many miles away - i will be giving up all my friends and family but it will be a permanent roof over my dd's head that he cant kick us out of (there is not a week gone by that he hasn't at some point said, do what i say or leave).

I am fearful of his reaction - he is so negatively affected by his parents - when they are away on holiday he is a different person, I know they will insist on vengence - they believe an eye for an eye and he talks a lot of being punished and punishes me - for example he ignored my birthday last year as punishment cos we weren't getting on.

The police have told me to move out and not give a forwarding address. This seems so drastic.

I have this dream that if i can get him away from his parents we would be able to start a new happier life. Am i barking mad?

I know I have to leave, enough people have told me. I just don't want to have to face the reality of it.

Is it my fault? if I did all the housework, never had any dishes in the sink or ironing to do, would he be nice to me? The house is tidy, there is always washing / ironing - i dont have a tumble drier and its often hard to get things dried. I dont have as dish washer and he doesn't like me to wash up during hte day (wastes water he says) but he gets annoyed when there is a pile of it after dinner. (i do wash up during hte day)

I am grateful i am a SAHM and that he pays the bills, but the cost seems to be my soul.

I want to be able to love him without bracing myself for the next barbed sarcastic comment. He said that he wants a loving woman - i said i used to be before you hurt me and shout and swear at me.

OP posts:
messymissy · 03/11/2009 15:42

thats exactly it nicknametaken, i am bewildered that i cant trust my own judgement, cant make a decision.

thanks for that point about the op's saying it was worth it, that is encouraging.

OP posts:
stuffitllllama · 03/11/2009 15:54

Messymissy this is my first post on this thread, and I agree with everyone else that you should leave as soon as possible.

I just wanted to add something else, that from your posts I have an impression of someone very articulate and intelligent: and to be honest I really think you cannot fail to make things work without him.

All those worries you have: I think they will be gone within a couple of days of you being out. You plainly have internal resources which you yourself have probably forgotten about! But they do come out in your posts.

By that I don't mean, that the practical problems will instantly go away. I mean that you will deal with them as other people do: "Oh OK, problem. Let's sort that out. Next." Rather than feeling that with everything, the sky is falling.

You can see that other people on this thread believe that you can sort them out. I definitely do, fwiw. You just need to breathe the fresh air of freedom, choice and confidence! It's waiting for you and I think it will be wonderful for you.

Don't think any more about what you are leaving behind. Think about what you are going to.

cestlavielife · 03/11/2009 15:56

oh definitely it is is worth it!

any hassles over contact/finance are nothing compared with the relief at being out of there. and is relatively at arms length....

and dcs so much happier - and that is what counts.

and if you can get court/cafcass involved - yes is long process but ultimately they have been helpful. they become responsible for decisions.

messymissy · 03/11/2009 16:07

thanks stuffitllama your vote of confidence and others are gratefully received.

hope so cestlavie - dont know how to get the cafcass stuff done, will look for a legal aid solicitor when i move.

relate said to start documenting events as potential evidence - even if I can't remember the exact dates, so going to do this. Nottoo sure how much or what to put in it, but will record as much as i can.

OP posts:
messymissy · 03/11/2009 16:20

Think that because i got my hopes up with the first house, and had planned my move and thought, great don't have to go to this event with him, or have to host this etc etc when it fell through my hope evaporated and the last few months have just vanished. I dont know where the time goes. I cant believe its been so long.

This time i have made sure the house is definitely ok and I have at last got the keys, and have been changing addresses on things already.

Will change my name - messymissy was supposed to be ironic as he always tells me I am terrible at housework, but i think its a way of putting myself down now. so going to think of a new name!

OP posts:
flyingcloud · 03/11/2009 16:29

By stuffitllllama Tue 03-Nov-09 15:54:56

I just wanted to add something else, that from your posts I have an impression of someone very articulate and intelligent: and to be honest I really think you cannot fail to make things work without him.

I just want to reiterate this - stuffitllllama has put it so well. You will make your DD so proud of her mum because you sound like you do have huge inner resources and you can't fail to give her a better life away from her father.

Please leave, it's a huge step towards a new life which you and DD deserve.

IneedacleanerIamalazyslattern · 03/11/2009 16:35

You also blame yourself because he has conditioned you to blame yourself and believe it is his fault.
It is ok to feel sad, it is ok to feel upset about this. My ex was horrid saying how it was ok for me as I was the one doing the leaving but believe you me I had my own mourning of the relationship to do. I had to mourn for all the things that I had wanted and never got and was finally admitting that after years of putting up with it.

Don't worry about things like dd when she is older, for one there are plenty of years to decide that and secondly she will evetuanlly get a pretty good measure of her dad eventually without any input from you.
One thing I know for sure is that my children will not grown up hearing me bad mouth their father something him and his partner have failed to keep from the children in the past.

You will eventually get your happy ending. Right now everything is so new and so raw that you just have to get you and dd through each thing as it happens.

messymissy · 03/11/2009 16:46

Yes i definitely do not want dd to hear me or him saying bad things about each other. I dont do it and hope and hope i wont as I know how damaging this is to her sense of self esteem. He has not shown the same restraint and has and i think will continue to bad mouth me. how have you tackled it Ineed?

thanks i used to be pretty articulate and hope to be again, but with dp i have to choose my words very carefully, he will complain and say I am being difficult if I use words he doesn;t understand!! Ridiculous I know.

/yes I want dd to be proud of me and to enjoy her childhood, I want to be able to invite her friends around and have friends over for meals etc. something I cant do here as he complains about the cost / mess etc etc - even though he is on a good wage. I want her to see that its nice to be polite open and generous with our friends and family.

OP posts:
messymissy · 03/11/2009 16:48

going off the make dinner now, but want to say a HUGE thank you to all of you who have taken the time to post words of encouragement, advice and wisdom today. Please keep in touch on this thread - I need the support, I need to know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

thanks again.

OP posts:
IneedacleanerIamalazyslattern · 03/11/2009 16:57

Erm messymissy if I didn't know better I would say you were describing my ex he used to say I was doing it deliberately to make him feel stupid if I used a word he didn't understand I told him to buy a dictionary.

In all honesty I haven't tackled it too much, dd did come back with a remark that she had overheard about daddy's girlfriend not liking me and I did say oh that is a shame but we can't all like each other. SHe was ok with that but TBH I needed to be peeled off the ceiling I was so angry. I save my anger for him though these things are his job to deal with at his end.
He doesn't bad mouth me in an open wayn though it will be little digs that at the moment go over the dc's head but will eventually be understood. I just try to keep the moral high ground and not retaliate and certainly not let any of my anger or hurt about it be heard by the dc's.

He does keep promising he won't do it but he is his fathers sone and will kep doing it and at the end of the day from his own experiences of his own father he should know better than anyone that the only person who will lose out is him.
He has a hard dislike and disrespect of his father from things like this in his own childhood.

I just always make sure I am the better person and give the children the love and stability that a man like him never can.

Jujubean77 · 03/11/2009 17:08

"he often hits himself when he is in a rage, and now DD is doing it too."

Please get out - I take it nothing much has been hidden from her. It is really not fair on her. Leave quickly before irreprable damage is done to your child.

theworldsgoneDMmad · 03/11/2009 18:12

OMG - I remember in particular "too many suds in the washing up water" from first time round! Please get out ASAP

Anniegetyourgun · 03/11/2009 19:10

Stuffitllllama said "You just need to breathe the fresh air of freedom, choice and confidence". I think that's beautiful. How about changing your name to Freeandconfident? Soon you will be both!

loupiots · 04/11/2009 09:03

Hello - how are you this morning?

How's the organising/packing coming along? Remember, you don't have to do everything - just one bit at a time and before you know it, it will be all done. (sorry, that sounded a bit Pollyanna, but you know what I mean

You can do it. Not much longer now and you and your little one will be free and clear.

NicknameTaken · 04/11/2009 10:45

Thinking of you. To go back to the point about not trusting your judgement, I think it's important to recognize this, and to just decide to trust someone else's. I asked my counsellor flat-out to tell me whether I should leave as a way of cutting through my own confusion and doubt. She said go and I went, "blaming" her during the first few days when I thought it was a mistake (it wasn't).

When you describe your life, and every single person who cares about you tells you to leave, maybe you can trust them when you can't trust yourself?

It's weird for me to be saying this, because normally I'll all about making decisions for yourself and doing your own thing. But in this situation, when your STBX's certainties overwhelm your own, it's a strategy that can help.

messymissy · 04/11/2009 10:45

Hi, loupiots well not so good this morning, feeling very down.

on the upside he has definately gone on holiday - so we have a breather and a chance to be calm.

however he did tell me - i will get help, I love you, i don't want this to happen, what can i do, etc etc which has left me feeling awful and confused. How can I still love him (and I do) and how can i believe he loves me when he has put me through so much?(I don't think he knows how to love someone).

And how can I stop blaming myself for letting this happen? Even my counsellor said it was my fault - if I stood up to him earlier he wouldn't have got so bad so often.

And he does chip away at my own guilt that I am not a good housewife, i am a good cook and mum, but having a house look lived in is what I like, I waited a long time to have a child and like seeing signs of her all over the house. But I find myself agreeing with him (not out loud though) that if the house was tidier - only way would be to sell / get rid of my stuff and DD's as his stuff is sacrosanct - then that would at least remove one source of conflict. would it??

He has had a miserable childhood but denies it vehemently, like Ineedacleaner said, he is his fathers son - his dad berates and controls his mum to this day and she puts up with (not always quietly). I really think he has absolutely no idea how to be a good husband or father, he thinks he has to be in charge and angry so much of the time.

I really worry that this sudden change of heart wont last and talking it over with a friend this morning, she said that even if he is serious and wants to get help, that DD and I should not stay around while he does so. Thanks for sharing your experience Ineedacleaner - i do worry about what he will be like once the dust settles and the reality hits him and once his parents know.

So starting packing today. Told him I cant take everything in one go and he was ok with this - hopefully he will remain ok with this. Which means that moving will be a lot easier as i can concentrate on the essential items. He even agreed to pay for some of the new furniture DD will need - which amazed me.

Sorry got to dash now, will log on again later.

thanks again.

OP posts:
NicknameTaken · 04/11/2009 10:57

Your counsellor said it was your fault? Bollocks! If you stood up to him he would have got more aggressive immediately and then would that have been your fault? In an abusive situation, NO STRATEGY OF YOURS IS GOING TO END THE ABUSE. It's the ultimate no-win situation for you. Bollocks to it being your fault.

There are courses for domestic abusers, but the reputable courses all say that he can't be "cured" while you are living together. If he's serious, he can do one of these courses, and after six months apart (the minimum recommended), you could try seeing him again (bet you won't want to though!) He can't change while you live together, even with good intentions, because you have a certain dynamic together and that needs to be completely interrupted.

Good on you for packing! Make sure you're out before he's back (he might come back early to catch you off guard). Don't give him your new address. Any contact can be in a neutral place. Go to a solicitor and start the process of a residence order so if he doesn't give her back, you have grounds to get the police to enforce it.

You're nearly there! Really, this bit is incredibly hard, but you can do it! We have faith in you even if you don't have faith in yourself!

cestlavielife · 04/11/2009 12:14

"Even my counsellor said it was my fault - if I stood up to him earlier he wouldn't have got so bad so often."

woooaaa you need a new conunsellor - or you misheard.

his behaviour is not your fault!

if you had LEFT him earlier you would not be in this situaiton now - that is all..

loupiots · 04/11/2009 12:15

Your friend is absolutely right - if he does wants to get help and change, then this process needs to happen whilst you are living apart. You need to regain some control over your life, and he has a long way to go before he is in a place where he can even begin to start regaining your trust.

Anyway, this is all by the by. It's only natural to have doubts and fear - this is an anxious time for you. However, try to hold on to the fact that this is the right thing to do. Those voices in your head making you doubt your decision? They are trying to lure you back into the familiar, precisely because change is scary. It?s just noise - tune it out.

Where were you this time last year? Do you remember? Did you think things would have become better by now? Are they better? Do you want to look back next year and still be in the same scenario? Of course you don't.

Leaving doesn't mean you can't work on your relationship, even if you do still love him.
Feel the fear and do it anyway, MM. Lots of people here are rooting for you.

stressed2007 · 04/11/2009 12:36

I just watched a film called waitress a kind of light hearted (oddly) film about a women plucking up the courage to leave here idiot of an abusive husband. I know it is a film but it was the last thing an old wise man told her that she should "start fresh".

And that (IMO) is what you must do however scary it seems. It will then be different and hugely better for you and your DD.

Katisha · 04/11/2009 13:08

Of course he is doing the "I love you, I will get help" stuff. He may even believe it.

But see it for what it is - a last-ditch attempt to manipulate you into staying - then he still hasn't lost control of the situation.

Go go go. Start your life. Let go of the old one. Yes mourn it and all your hopes for it, but it doesn't work, so don't spend any more time thinking things might actually change this time.

YOU take control. YOU change things.
You are doing so well - take that last jump.

messymissy · 04/11/2009 14:56

thank you all.

been a rough morning - DD very restless and irritable but at least I don't have to stress about the mess she is making.

yes the counsellor did say that, because I am usually passive (I have been often called placid which I hate) and try to calm situations rather than inflame them, that this has given him free reign to do as he pleases with no consequences. Me getting upset is not a consequence. I did indeed try to stand up to him and the look of satisfaction on his face was awful and he got much much worse.

Now I do stand my ground without loosing my temper back at him, I repeat that I am angry because....and state the reasons. He then complains I am treating him like a child - so dont act like one says I!

He said he will take the course but I dont think he will as he seems to think his employer has to know and so he will loose his job - bogus I feel.

The physical violence stopped in January so he has shown he can behave better but the verbal and emotional abuse has carried on. Not as overt or often as before, but he can have silent rages IYKWIM and they are somehow worse than the loud ones. Because it is less often it doesn't seem to me to be much better but I guess its what gives me (false?) hope that things will improve. He also feels I dont give him credit for trying or for the nice things he does. I do try to.

In the meantime, I think I also need help in managing my anger and dealing with conflict and assertiveness, I never had a problem before, I used to chair meetings with dozens of people in attendance, some way more senior than me and apart from a little stage fright I was fine and came away proud that I had handled it - seems like I remembering someone elses life!

Relate are going to pass my details on to the office near the new house and I'm hoping that there will be other support available.

My mum is worried that once I am on my own I will have a nervous breakdown cos of the stress - her neighbours daugther went to pieces and was unable in the short term to look after her son. I hope this doesn't happen to me. She was me to leave and get settled and I'm hoping she will come with me for awhile but her health is not great.

OP posts:
stressed2007 · 04/11/2009 15:52

Do you have any real life friends to help support you through this?

messymissy · 04/11/2009 16:25

yes, but they work so its difficult for them to help. one called this morning from work which was lovely.

Another has offered to come help pack over the weekend.

Not good at asking for help, I know I should but it seems to make me feel more helpless somehow.

Even the friends who i have told, will say, oh but he always seems so nice, and he is when he has an audience, he can be great. but it makes me feel that they don't really believe me and that maybe I am delusional and this is all part and parcel of 'married life' like his mum told me when I tried to talk to her about it.

Also its hard as I dont want to be a drain on them, always miserable and anxious. I try hard to stay cheerful (or at least look it) when we are out.

Would be easier if I could stay more locally and have the ongoing support and friendship, but funds being dire as they are I cant afford to stay in this area so am forced to move way out.

OP posts:
stressed2007 · 04/11/2009 16:39

"Even the friends who i have told, will say, oh but he always seems so nice, and he is when he has an audience, he can be great. but it makes me feel that they don't really believe me and that maybe I am delusional and this is all part and parcel of 'married life' like his mum told me when I tried to talk to her about it."

ignore ignore ignore

Some people have a very funny idea about what is acceptable behaviour especially when it is not them that has to live it on a daily basis.

Most abusive husbands/partners do not wear a sign saying that - that is part of the abuse - showing you/the partner and no one else! Everyone else thinks they are lovely.

Trust your instincts you know what you have to do.

Without giving too much away where are you in UK and where you going to?