Am I being awkward and "ruining everything with selfishness" ??

[SnotRag]

Getting married in October. DP and his family (and my family) were expecting and wanting a very traditional church wedding.

Me and DP are athiest ... I refused to book a church wedding for that reason. This upset his family, my family were not too bothered about that. DP agreed with me.

secondly, I don't agree with the whole "giving away" thing. I don't "belong" to anyone and never will. I think the "giving away" thing is outdated and sexist. It's like my father "giving" me to DP ... and then I become his property? I don't think so ... I told DP that I didn't want to do this part. He wasn't happy about this bit but said he would stand by my decision. My father was not happy. I did explain but he thinks I'm just trying to shut him out of the ceromony.

Then the dress episode. MIL thought she would be helping me choose my dress. I wasn't keen on the idea because I knew we'd clash but for DP's sake, I agreed.

She insisted on a long, white flory affair. I refused. She went in a mood and said I was just being awkward on purpose. Without her help, I chose a red dress. Apparantly she was "devestated" DP accused me of trying to upset his parents as much as possible.

Then the final thing, the one that has made me sit back and think "is it me being a bitch?? everyone else seems to think so!"

I don't want to say "honour and obey". I never will obey anyone and what is the point in making false vows?? it just defeats the object of the whole marriage.

I wanted it changed to "honour and respect".

When I said this I caught my auntie and my mum roll their eyes to each other. My cousin took a deep breath and started chatting to the dog and DP got up and said "tell you what, why don't we just not bother at all" and walked out.

My mum then said "well, I'll give you one thing ... if you're trying to get out of the marriage, you're doing a great job so far"

So be honest, is it me? am I going too far? am I being selfish?

No you're not - certainly not with respect to your vows and your dress. I wouldn't be saying anything I didn't want to, tbh, what's the point?

And 'devastated'? It's YOUR wedding dress!

I do feel like you might have to compromise a little bit with some other stuff though.

Very few people IMO say obey anymore

Its your wedding do you what you want

I can understand why your Dad was a bit upset about not giving you away tbh,are you walking down the 'aisle',is your dad walking you down if you are?

As for your dress,its your decision noone elses.

I never said obey either.

I don't think anything you've wanted is 'unreasonable' or 'bitchy' or 'selfish' in itself. However, it may be the way you are presenting it or your attitude.

Had you and your DP talked about all this stuff and agreed beforehand, or did you just drop the last bomb without speaking to him first? It is his wedding too. While I don't think you should have to say 'obey', wear a white dress, marry in a church, or be escorted by your father if you don't want to, you really need to have this all worked out with your DP first.

FWIW, I wore a red dress, married in a registry office, and didn't say 'obey'. My brother escorted me down the aisle because my dad couldn't be there, but there weren't any words about 'giving away'. Both families would have preferred the church thing, but DH and I had discussed and agreed it wasn't for us.

I think these days saying the obey bit is quite unusual - you'd be more odd if you did say it, IYSWIM.

I wore a red cocktail dress for my wedding, no-one gave me away and no-one is obeying anyone around here - stick to your guns. But you do need to talk to your DP - explain you're not actively looking for trouble, but both of you have to be married under your own terms.

I don't think YABU at all - but your family (and prospective ILs) seem to think there's a theme going on here in your attitude. Do they think you're often uncooperative in other areas?
What you and your DP say in your vows is for the two of you to decide, and your dress is certainly for you alone to choose, with maybe your best mate to help.
Stick to your guns, but maybe tone down the attitude - if you have one. They seem to think so.

I didn't think anyone said obey outside of church and very few in Church weddings - Is this very important to your DP? Why does anyone else feel strongly about it. Strange. Wedding dress wise - it is your dress and you prob shouldn't have agreed to shop with your MIL at all. Don't know how you can fix that one though

Maybe you could compromise a bit on the whole giving away thing - at least arrive with your dad.

Hope you sort out all the pettyness and have a happy day in the end

You should not be made to feel bad about decisions that you have made that are about your choices. Your dress, your vows, your venue.

One way to make your choices easier on your Dad is to think about a variation, leave out the who gives this woman bit and just have your Dad accompany you down the aisle.

TBH, I don't understand why what you are wearing has got anything to do with your MIL and you are not having a religious service so you can say what you want, why would it even be being discussed except between you and your partner?!

Have a great wedding

I didn't say "obey", and that was 16 yrs ago! I chose the dress and where we married..

But... I so wished that my Dad had still been around, just to walk me down the aisle. I wouldn't have wanted him to "give me away" but I would have loved for him to have been part of the whole thing.

Sometimes a tiny compromise can make lots of people happy

I didn't think many people said obey in the marriage vows anymore - I certainly didn't thirteen years ago! I'm not obeying anyone
Your mil has had her wedding and her "day" and this is yours and you can wear and do what you like!
I can kind of understand your dad's pov but there again, I can see your side that you aren't owned by anyone and therefore can't be given to your husband. I would definitely try to find some sort of middle ground with that one.
I would be quite worried about your future dh being so conformist with his parents though to the point of upsetting you. I'd address that one right now if I were you because my dh hates to upset his family even now and even if it means causing huge rows with me and it has caused many a huge row I can tell you. He needs to decide where his loyalties lie.

None of the things you want in themselves are unreasonable, but maybe you could have gone about it a bit better?

Sounds like you expected a bit of a fight over everything. Maybe you and your DP could sit down and work out all the details together before letting your families know.

I believe that there was a bit of a hoo-ha when Princess Diana didn't want to say "obey" in her vows. And that was in, what, 1981? That would make it... let's see 28 years ago. I am not sure how it was settled but I think "obey" was left out.

If it's been good enough for royalty for almost three decades...

Re: not wanting to be given away - YANBU. Women ceased being property, well, again, decades ago. As for your dad thinking you want to shut him out of the ceremony, you could point out that your mum, DP's mum and DP's dad aren't involved either so why should he feel left out?

Re: the red dress... honestly, I'd have loved wearing a red dress and I applaud you for it. I was not given away, the word "obey" was not to be found in our vows, we were not married in church (rather, in MIL's garden) and we had a Native Indian blessing recited at the end by our United Church minister. So you can see I'm not traditional. But I would not have had the courage to wear a red dress, don't ask me why.

I think I agree with SH - would a wee bit of compromise be so bad? Especially if you can see that some people are getting upset?

And please don't misunderstand me - I do not mean you should compromise because you're in the wrong - I firmly believe that it is the wedding couple's day and everyone else should wind their necks in. But it appears you're upsetting your DP and it should be about the two of you, shouldn't it?

I'm typing one-handedly while BFing so the debate may very well be settled before I hit "post" but congratulations to you, and good luck as well.

The one thing I wondered over and over again when we were getting married was approaching was why people felt entitled to dump their personalities all over our wedding...

Hell no, youre not going too far. Its your wedding and you are a grown woman who can make her own decisions. Whether people agree with it or not, they should respect your wishes and just want to turn up to such a lovely occasion. End of

I said honour and respect 18 years ago in September. I would NEVER have said obey and if I had, I'd have broken a solemn oath.

In terms of the dress and the devestation it's causing, that's almost funny.

I nearly went for a red dress, but tried on a white flouncy thing and promptly fell in love with it.

I also let my dad give me away, but only because I was the youngest of 6 kids, 5 of us girls, and he was old and had never been top hatted and tailed. We were from a poor family so the big wedding was a bit unusual for us (though we did have the 'do' in a pub, much to MIL's disgust!) and I wanted dad to be a penguin for the night.

He loved it and now he's dead I know I made him very happy and very proud that day. And he looked a million dollars in a penguin suit too

It's your wedding. If you're paying for it, do it on your terms. I'd be a bit worried if DP wasn't on board, though...perhaps you need to iron out these differences before you take the plunge??

I didn't say obey and that was 23 years ago next month, why should I obey my husband . I thought it was old fashioned then and even more so now.

Your wedding, your day, oh and your dress - MIL needs to mind her own business!

Why is it that weddings bring the worst out in families?

Hope you have a lovely time

I didn't say obey
I didn't have a cake
I didn't have a receiving line
I set a time limit on the speeches
I didn't have my sister or SIL as bridesmaids

My DP and I discussed it thoroughly first and then told our families what we were planning.

As long as your DP is happy with the arrangements, then that's ok. The fact that he's said you are upsetting his parents on purpose leads me to believe that he's not entirely in accord with you.

I do think that you need to sit down calmly with your families and explain what sort of wedding you do want and give them the opportunity to give their opinions. I'm not saying you need to let their opinions sway you, but they're going to talk about your choices anyway so you may as well hear it first hand .

Oh, forgot - your future MIL thought she'd be shopping for a dress with you????? WTF?????????? What's that all about?
I thought that shopping for a dress was for the bride-to-be and her mother????

That's one issue where I'd have said " I don't think so..." to DH.

Is 'obey' in the civil marriage service?

I agree that you and your DP need to sort out what you both want, and plan accordingly.

Its your dress and your vows so I'd stick to your guns on that one.
in respect of your dad giving you away - I totally agree with you that no-one should give anyone away and that its all a bit sexist but I asked my Mum (dad not around) to give me some moral support by walking into the registry office with me. It meant a lot to her. Do not underestimate a dad's dream of doing this ..... so I would think hard whether its worth hurting him or whether you could find a compromise.Also theres the issue of who is paying? If they are paying for some ot then its fair enough others having an input imo

Do registry offices weddings still say obey in this day and age? It should be immediately outlawed. I think you are quite right to ignore your sexist family and wet, stressed out dp. Why anyone would choose to obey someone else, no matter how beloved, or let someone else choose their dress is beyond me. Are you sure you want to get married? Your family and extended family sound the like the stuff of potential wedding nightmares to me. I bet they're much nicer when there is no wedding to plan, aren't they? Maybe you should call it all off and take a fantstic holiday instead, away from all the conflict and angst. And then if dp remains arsey and annoying you can dump him without feeling sick about having spent all that money on a wedding.

pmsl @ wet, stressed out dp

I got married in a registry office 5 years ago and don't remember discussing whether or not they would be using the 'obey' version of the vows ("fat bloody chance" would have been my response if they had).

I didn't have anyone give me away, partly for the reason you describe and partly because I am closer to my step-dad than my dad and didn't want to upset anyone by choosing one or the other to do it.

You want a non-traditional wedding and you have traditional families - it's bound to cause tension and at least some of the diplomacy will have to come from you because you're the ones doing the thing that's new/different. You aren't wrong though, particularly on the obey thing. I can't think of anyone I know who got married in the last 20 years who said obey. My most Christian friend was married by a woman vicar

Gawd, I can't believe the flack you're getting for your decisions, I didn't think this sort of stuff was a big deal these days.

fwiw, I got married in a civil ceremony (and no, 'obey' was not part of the standard vows) and wore black. My Dad walked me down the aisle (such as it is in a registry office) but the phrase 'give me away' was never uttered.

I think it's really odd that your dp seems to be so hung up on the obey thing, what has he said about it since?