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Original poster

Am I being awkward and "ruining everything with selfishness" ??

92 replies

SnotRag · 10/05/2009 16:22

Getting married in October. DP and his family (and my family) were expecting and wanting a very traditional church wedding.

Me and DP are athiest ... I refused to book a church wedding for that reason. This upset his family, my family were not too bothered about that. DP agreed with me.

secondly, I don't agree with the whole "giving away" thing. I don't "belong" to anyone and never will. I think the "giving away" thing is outdated and sexist. It's like my father "giving" me to DP ... and then I become his property? I don't think so ... I told DP that I didn't want to do this part. He wasn't happy about this bit but said he would stand by my decision. My father was not happy. I did explain but he thinks I'm just trying to shut him out of the ceromony.

Then the dress episode. MIL thought she would be helping me choose my dress. I wasn't keen on the idea because I knew we'd clash but for DP's sake, I agreed.

She insisted on a long, white flory affair. I refused. She went in a mood and said I was just being awkward on purpose. Without her help, I chose a red dress. Apparantly she was "devestated" DP accused me of trying to upset his parents as much as possible.

Then the final thing, the one that has made me sit back and think "is it me being a bitch?? everyone else seems to think so!"

I don't want to say "honour and obey". I never will obey anyone and what is the point in making false vows?? it just defeats the object of the whole marriage.

I wanted it changed to "honour and respect".

When I said this I caught my auntie and my mum roll their eyes to each other. My cousin took a deep breath and started chatting to the dog and DP got up and said "tell you what, why don't we just not bother at all" and walked out.

My mum then said "well, I'll give you one thing ... if you're trying to get out of the marriage, you're doing a great job so far"

So be honest, is it me? am I going too far? am I being selfish?

OP posts:

MmeLindt · 10/05/2009 17:22

I did not say "obey" and that was 12 years ago.

I chose my own dress. Tell MIL she can choose your dress if you are allowed to choose hers.

I was "given away" by my Dad. Tbh, I did not see it as being given to away. My Dad walked down the aisle, giving his blessing as I married DH. It is symbolic. This is the only thing that I think you are being slightly unreasonable about, it is something that would have really hurt my Dad's feelings.

At the end of the day, it is you and your DP's wedding, not your MILs, your cousins or your mums.

piscesmoon · 10/05/2009 17:29

I have been married twice-in church both times-and didn't say obey either time.

I would just go quietly to the register office with DP, on your own, and tell everyone afterwards. Throw a party. They might be a bit upset but will get over it and you will avoid all the fuss beforehand!

TrillianAstra · 10/05/2009 17:29

Why on earth would MIL assume she got to 'help' you pick your dress?

But it sounds as if yur DP isn't happy with the way things are going. This is what needs to be sorted out. If you and he decide how you are going to get married together then that's all that matters. Why does he think you are trying to upset his family?

YanknCock · 10/05/2009 17:32

Did your DP really walk out because you wouldn't say 'obey'? Or did he walk out because you launched into this announcement of what you wanted, in front of your family, without discussing with him first?

dittany · 10/05/2009 17:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFallenMadonna · 10/05/2009 17:40

It's how you deal with these things isn't it? 'Cos I read the OP in "the giving away thing" and I rolled my eyes. And I agree with her really! But my dad, well, it was a big moment for him. I actually entered the church with my whole family; me and my dad in front, mum, brother and sister behind. There was no talk of giving away, and my whole family was involved, but my dad had his moment too. I guess I wanted mt dad to have his moment more than I wanted to make a stand about not becoming DH's property. Because I was pretty secure in the knowledge that no-one was viewing it as that.

TheFallenMadonna · 10/05/2009 17:42

I even looked at dress patterns and fabric with my MIL - but actually chose it with my mum and sister.

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/05/2009 17:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ScummyMummy · 10/05/2009 17:48

Well, I'm glad you and your dad had a great time, fallenmadonna, but see no reason why SnotRag should embrace the traditionalist parternal aisle walking model if she has political or personal objections to so doing. Her dad needs to get a life if his major ambition for his daughter is to walk her down an aisle, frankly.

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/05/2009 17:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

YanknCock · 10/05/2009 17:57

dittany, it's something for them to discuss together in private first. Read my previous post, I certainly don't think she should say 'obey'. What I'm getting at is this....does her DP feel like she is just making announcements out of the blue about what is/isn't going to happen at their wedding, with him having never heard anything about it? Is his walking out all about her not saying 'obey' as some people seem to think? I very much doubt that it is.

As I read it, it was her mother, aunt & cousin rolling their eyes about this particular exchange, not his family (though I agree the MIL is being overbearing about the dress thing).

It does seem the vast majority (myself included) did not say 'obey', so are her family so behind the times that they really take issue with this?

BitOfFun · 10/05/2009 17:59

I think you are coming across as rather confrontational tbh, which isn't helping. Can't you just quietly discuss and decide things with your DP and get on with it? Once you let other family members start crawling all over your wedding plans you are asking for trouble...

mrsboogie · 10/05/2009 18:18

You are not BU at all in any of these issues. I applaud your lack of hypocrisy in sticking to your beliefs - so many people who are on -believers act like total hypocrites in pretending to believe in order to have a picturesque church wedding and go along with all the shite in order to follow some tradition that they don't even understand. I hate it.

Its your day and your dress and your everything so they can lie it or lump it. Most of what you are suggesting is fairly normal these days anyway. BUT if you are pissing your DP off now as well and he actually agrees with you then maybe you are not coming across too well (although it is totally understandable why you would be on your high horse a bit)

Maybe you should say things a bit more positively and where you are abandoning some arcane principle (like being sold off by daddy) you could replace it with something else more acceptable to modern times?

glastocat · 10/05/2009 18:21

I think all your decisions are perfecly valid and your MIL is being unreasonable. After all, I got married in a red miniskirt and jacket in a registry office, certainly didn't agree to obey, and my father wasn't even invited to the wedding, let alone asked to give me away. I did find it much easier to present the whole wedding as a fait accompli, we organised it to suit us, and no-one else had any input in any of the decsions made. It saved a hell of a lot of confrontation, my MIL is a devout Catholic and still believes we aren't 'properly' marred (12 years and a kid later). I now if was in your shoes I'd be spitting feathers, and you absolutely must get your DH on board. If you can't present a united front on hw to elebrate your own wedding, I'd be having serious doubts.

bigchris · 10/05/2009 18:22

it's not just your wedding though is it?
it's dp's as well
and at the moment you are ruining it for him as he is getting caught in the middle

fwiw I think my dh will be gutted if our dd doesn't want him to giver her away

and I will be very if she wants to wear a red dress

the wording wouldn't bother me though

nikki1978 · 10/05/2009 18:27

Don't think you are being selfish but a wedding is very important to other people who love you - particularly your family so I think you need to be a bit gentler with them but be firm and stick with what you want to do. I feel very sorry for your Dad though as walking his daughter down the aisle should be important to him so can't he just walk you there and not say the "Who gives this woman" part?

There are always conflicts with weddings but stand your ground but be kind and people will get over it.

I just think you might be so determined to stand by your morals and values that you are forgetting about other peoples feelings a bit.

Dior · 10/05/2009 18:33

The issues are not something you are being unreasonable about. However, it does sound from your op that a lot of people think you come across as unreasonable. Maybe your tone is a little confrontational?

MY first step would be to sort out with my dp what he wants from the day and then decide which of those things I could accept without too much annoyance. I would also let my dad give me away because it is a tradition that is nice. No-one actually thinks of it as you physically being passed from one owner to another any more!

nikki1978 · 10/05/2009 18:37

Unless of course he is paying a dowry

KingCanuteIAm · 10/05/2009 18:43

I agree with most of what has been said above TBH both in support of you and otherwise!

Why don't you sit your dp down and tell him, once and for all, exactly what bothrs you about a marraige/wedding ceremony. Tell him what you want out of your day and then ask him to do the same, tell you what he wants. Then work out between you how you are going to best achieve the required compromise. Once you have done that sit down together with your family and tell them what you are going to do at your wedding and the ways they can be a part of that.

Things like the giving away - yes it is archaic but it is something your father may have been thinking about since you were a little girl. Find a way he can have that without compromising your ideals. The same with the dress, once MIL knows what you want then ask her to help you find your perfect dress - within your perameters.

Once the decisions are made and the family are told don't feel that you have to restate it again and again. If someone steps outside the boundaries of agreement get back together with dp and both of you explain nicely to the person that it is not going to happen and you would all get more out of it if they stick to the plan.

warthog · 10/05/2009 18:46

of all the things you've objected to, the 'obey' bit of the vow is the most important.

in my book, a vow is something to be taken very seriously and you can't go back on it. so, you could let your dad give you away, get married in church, wear a white flowery number, but DON'T vow to do something you have no intention of doing.

BigBellasBeerBelly · 10/05/2009 18:49

I don't understand this obey stuff either.

we were married in a civil ceremony 3 years ago and the registry office were great, they gave us a whole load of different versions of vows etc so we could personalise the ceremony without having to do it from scratch IYSWIM.

There were about 4 versions of vows and certainly none of them had obey.

None of the weddings in churches I have been to in the last 10 years have had obey - I would have noticed!

Haven't been to any weddings longer ago than that...

OP where did the obey stuff come from?

TBH I can see why people are upset. Their expectations have been well and truly dashed.

You won't get married in a church. You want to wear a scarlet dress (well OK red but still). You don't want your dad to walk you down the aisle. And you are refusing to make vows which I can't see were even on the cards in the first place...

All of these things on their own, OK, but all of them in quick sucession, well, blimey. And I'm not surprised that your dad is gutted, people will assume that you don't get on.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 10/05/2009 18:52

In 1984 I promised to "love, honour and cherish" DH - in a church ceremony. It wasn't even discussed with the minister, that's just how it was.

Mind you, we didn't say the "til death do us part" bit either, because the minister didn't believe death does part you. So we're stuck with each other for all eternity...

sleepyeyes · 10/05/2009 18:53

TBH it not just your wedding, it's your DP too, it sounds like you are making all of the decisions and he is expected to go along with it all. I think you need to sit down and discuss what type of wedding you would both like and compromise for one another if necessary.
There are a few different versions of wedding vows so it shouldn't be to hard to find an official version that doesn't say it.

smallchange · 10/05/2009 19:09

I had a traditional church wedding. I didn't say "obey". My dad didn't give me away (although he did acompany me down the aisle - he just took his seat when we got to the bottom).

I agree with the posters who said it might not be what you're saying but that your dp seems to be surprised by this. Haven't you talked about your wedding together and what you both want?

smallchange · 10/05/2009 19:12

How about you and your dp walk down the aisle together and get your dad to do a reading or something, although tbh I think it's a small thing to make your dad happy if this is important to him.

I get that a small thing to me might be a big thing to you though.

(You getting to choose whatever dress you like is a no-brainer though).

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