Am I being awkward and "ruining everything with selfishness" ??

[SnotRag]

Getting married in October. DP and his family (and my family) were expecting and wanting a very traditional church wedding.

Me and DP are athiest ... I refused to book a church wedding for that reason. This upset his family, my family were not too bothered about that. DP agreed with me.

secondly, I don't agree with the whole "giving away" thing. I don't "belong" to anyone and never will. I think the "giving away" thing is outdated and sexist. It's like my father "giving" me to DP ... and then I become his property? I don't think so ... I told DP that I didn't want to do this part. He wasn't happy about this bit but said he would stand by my decision. My father was not happy. I did explain but he thinks I'm just trying to shut him out of the ceromony.

Then the dress episode. MIL thought she would be helping me choose my dress. I wasn't keen on the idea because I knew we'd clash but for DP's sake, I agreed.

She insisted on a long, white flory affair. I refused. She went in a mood and said I was just being awkward on purpose. Without her help, I chose a red dress. Apparantly she was "devestated" DP accused me of trying to upset his parents as much as possible.

Then the final thing, the one that has made me sit back and think "is it me being a bitch?? everyone else seems to think so!"

I don't want to say "honour and obey". I never will obey anyone and what is the point in making false vows?? it just defeats the object of the whole marriage.

I wanted it changed to "honour and respect".

When I said this I caught my auntie and my mum roll their eyes to each other. My cousin took a deep breath and started chatting to the dog and DP got up and said "tell you what, why don't we just not bother at all" and walked out.

My mum then said "well, I'll give you one thing ... if you're trying to get out of the marriage, you're doing a great job so far"

So be honest, is it me? am I going too far? am I being selfish?

YANBU! Of course you are not being selfish!

1. venue - you and your DP should choose whatever you want - it's your wedding! If you don't believe in God it would be silly to pretend that you do for something so important.

1. The dress - you have to wear it. You gave it a shot with your future MIL and she tried to insist on something you didn't like. SHE's not wearing it - you get the veto. It's not as if you refused to try - she tried to push you into a dress you hated.

1. "obey" Good grief - does ANYONE say this any more? I didn't - and Catholics for example, never have. It's a vow - you are making an important promise to do something. If you can promise to obey your husband with a straight face, sure, do it. If not, you aren't taking your vows seriously from the outset, which is not a good start.

1. Your Dad walking you down the aisle - I can see why you feel this way. Include him in some other way - get him to do a reading, make sure he gives the first speech, set the second dance aside for you and your Mum and MIL and FIL.

I don't see that having strong views on four things, out of all the things that have to be decided in the planning of a wedding, makes you "difficult". Are you paying for it? If you are, then you should also have a MUCH stronger leg to stand on.

Sorry this doesn't make sense to me.

You only say vows like "love, honour and obey" in Church services and you say you are not having a church service.

IIRC, you don't make any promises at all in a register office ceremony. It's just: do you take him/her. Unless it has changed since the last one I went to.

No one in their right mind would expect to have a dress chosen by their mother in law.

If it's helpful, I have been married twice, in a church both times. The second time, I didn't want my Dad to give me away, as he had done so before. It would be like "Would someone PLEASE take this woman!"

So DH and I walked down the aisle together. It meant that we spent the day together, against tradition, and we were a lot less nervous as we had each other. One of my fondest memories is standing outside the church with DH waiting for the door to open. Aaah!

What's happened to the OP, I wonder?

a quick google got me this.

why haven't you done something so blatantly simple?

The Statutory Words
The minimum vows required for your marriage to be legal are as follows. These words must be said by both of you and be used somewhere in your ceremony. You will usually be allowed to add your own choice of vows before or after the statutory words:

In England and Wales the statutory declaration is:
"I do solemnly declare that I know not of any lawful impediment why I, [your name], may not be joined in matrimony to [your partner's name]."

followed by these contracting words:
"I call upon these persons here present to witness that I, [your name], do take thee [your partner's name] to be my lawful wedded husband [or wife]."

---

also, i am pretty sure there is no 'giving away' unless it's what you want. but again i am sure google could give an indication should you be so inclined.

yes this is ultimately your day. however if my father was alive to give me away at my wedding, and had i objected to it ( which i don't) i think i could have gone along with it so that he could have the Honour of giving his daughter away - in a silly nod to bygone days that no - one of sane mind believes that these days you are your husbands property - and yeah you need to get over yourself.

get whatever dress you want - its your day, but there are ways and ways. unless your mother in law is indeed a pushy dragon - there are ways of managing a situation to make everyone feel involved.

this indeed smacks of - look at me i'm having more drama - and by excluding everyone, you will be lucky if anyone turns up

your poor dad. you sound very immature about the whole thing.

You do make promises balloon slayer - the ceremonies are a lot more "traditional" now if you want them to be - as the popularity of civil ceremonies has increased - and to tie in with the change that now you can get married in hotels etc. Ours certainly wasn't just the legal bit and we went with something from the registrar suggestions so by no means unusual.

It did used to be v quick in registry office.

This whole "obey" thing has thrown me.

OP how did it come up? Given that no-one has said it for years?

Agree with the advice of others. Agree everything with your DP first and then just present it as fait au complit. But figure out the issues that are most important to you and be prepared to compromise on those issues that are not.

For example, My MIL wanted to help choose my dress. I did not want her there. I wanted to have it as special time between me and my mum. So I compromised and let her come with me to see the dress before I got married - she was the only person other than my parents who saw the dress before I married. So she was sort of included.

With the walking down the Aisle thing, I think perhaps you are being a bit mean there. Given that you're not actually having a religious ceremony then there is nothing in your ceremony that says he is giving you away. Could you not change the words to say 'Who supports this bride to be married?' or something? After all, you do want your father's support in your marriage don't you? I thought about it when I got married, but my mum said my dad would have been upset and seen it as a snub to him - she said it is something that Dads look forward to from teh day when their little girls are born. I hadn't thought of it like that, so immediately backed down and saw it in the spirit that it was attended - my dad was proud and wanted to have that special moment with me before I got married (and now, trust me I wouldn't change it for the world - it was the only time I cried all day, when Dad had those last few private words with me!)

As for future issues - decide whats really important to you and set those. We felt strongly we didn't want a line up, so didn't have one... but we compromised on other things that were less important to us. We also gave areas of responsibility to family members too, so they felt included too. For example, I let my MIL do all the flowers (I hate flowers and don't care one way or the other - just gave her the colour scheme and let her get on with it). Give your MIL something to get her teeth into and you might find her more 'supportive'! HTH

The whole lot of them sound abominable. What ScummyMummy said...

How peculiar - i don't think you're being unreasonable but perhaps a little insensitive.

I know weddings are theoritically about the bride and groom but most of us tend to end up doing stuff to please our family - particularly parents. If it meant that much to my father to give me away and i was close to him then i'd let him do it to be honest.

Regarding the dress - mil is clearly barking - but red - are you sure?

The obey stuff - suspect thats an argument over something irrelevant as agree with other posters that its not even said anymore. Is it possible your mum and aunty were just raising eyebrows at you being argumentative over irrelevant stuff?

I find it bizarre that the question of whether or not to say 'obey' has even come up tbh, no one says that anymore do they? It would be more a case of deliberately changing it to 'obey' rather than changing it from 'obey', particularly as you are having a civil ceremony.

Who suggested you say 'obey'? Was it your DH?

Similarly, if you are having a civil ceremony, there isn't any 'giving away' is there? My dad walked me down the 'aisle' of the hotel I got married in, then sat down at the end, there was no 'who gives this woman?' stuff. He just walked me down the aisle, simple as that.

Weird of your MIL to think she would be involved in your dress, I would certainly have said no to that and DH would have thought it was weird as well, and certainly wouldn't have pressured me to allow it. Did your DP really think she should be helping choose your dress? More of a mum and daughter thing, surely?

I got married in red & black, in a registry office, & would certainly not have been given away or promised to obey dh.

Can you sit dp down & ask him how he really feels about each of the issues? Then decide on a compromise that suits both of you (& present united front to all bossy relatives from here on in).

Gosh, it all sounds horribly stressful, aren't marriages supposed to be about love and aren't they supposed to be joy filled fun days?

You need to have a frank discussion with your DH, where you both work out how your wedding will be, as a couple together, with compromise if necessary.

As for the rest of your family, they really don't have a say.

It might be worth thinking about whether you are coming across too ocnfrontational or aggresive without meaning to, your tone of voice might be getting people's backs up.

All of the things you've mentioned are things that are your decision alone, aside from the venue and that one you did decide with your fiance.

You do not need to consult your DP about whether or not your father gives you away, you do not need to consult anyone at all on what you wear, and it is entirely up to you whether you are prepared to promise to obey someone.

Why should he get a say in any of those things?

I've never heard of a groom (or his mother) weighing in on the wedding dress.

If he wants your father to give you to him and for you to promise to obey him, then you have fair warning of how your marriage is likely to go.

You are also getting that from him throwing childish strops in front of your family and accusing you of deliberately trying to upset his mother just because you won't give in to her unreasonable demands (huge, HUGE red flag right there).

You two need to have a really big long chat about a lot of stuff. Is this really a man you want to marry?

So wheedling? Yuck, say I.

I can understand why your dad is upset. He probably has been looking forward to this since the day you were born. Would it ruin your day that much to let him walk you down the aisle and make him happy?

Jesus do people really look at tiny newborn baby girls and just imagine them getting married?

Like it's the most important thing they'll ever do?

If I thought my DH was harbouring fantasies like this about our DD I'd think he was a loon.

My Dad did walk me down the aisle FWIW because I didn't see it as "giving me away" but just walking me down the aisle. But if either he or DH had been particularly keen on it I might have bridled and decided to walk unaided.

Not the most important thing daughter will do but maybe most important thing father will do for daughter. Doesn't need to be giving away- could be just escorting

The most important thing a father does for his daughter is to hold her arm while she walks into a church/registry office/room in a hotel?

Really?

How odd.

My Dad has done so many more important things for me. DH has done more important things for DD already and she's only one.

I mean, it's a nice thing to do if you're into it. But it's hardly important, is it?

my father wouldn't have a leg to stand on in that arguement seeing as he and my mother eloped behind everyones back to avoid a big wedding that said it would be nice to have a nice supportive person at your side walking down the aisle and why not let it be your father? it doesn't have to symbolise him giving you away, it could just be because it would make you both happy.

going shopping with your mil was a bit of a stupid idea from the get go lets face it... especially if you knew you were planning a non conventional dress and she wasn't expecting that.

did anyone else bring up the 'honor and obey' issue or did you just suddenly take it into your head to start ranting about it? because tbh from your op it sounds a bit like you just started ranting and preaching for no apparent reason during a family get together.

i don't think it's the things you want that are causing your dp to be upset so much as the way you're going about telling everyone, would it not have been easier to discuss what you wanted, arrange it all yourselves and just invite everyone to attend on the day than to behave like a couple having a traditional church wedding organised by family and make a big production about doing the opposite of what they expect at every turn?

erm no yanbu - all those things could have been me (in fact only difference was my dad was the original objector to giving me away). And I did wear white but only cos I couldn't find a nice red dress .

however that said we went to vegas and did it in secret (I texted my mother after) to avoid this kind of discussion so I kind of ducked the issue..

and no I don't know anyone who has obey in their vows.

Agree with flowery about the giving away - I had a civil ceremony too and my dad walked me to the front and sat down. Yes it stems from "giving away" but no words are spoken to that effect and most people don't see it like that I'm sure.

Abd personally, in response to most recent posts, i think that a dad will have high hopes for his DD. That she does well and is happy, that she is financially secure, and that she meets a man who loves her and treats her kindly and well and that she has children. At a guess I would say that is what most dads want for their daughters more or less.

So yes, when my dad walked me down the aisle to get married, he was very proud, and he was very happy that I had met someone who I loved and who loved me and who he could count on to look after me (fingers crossed!) and for us to settle down and have some children etc.

So yes in a way it was a moment which he had been hoping for since I was born . As a traditional man it made him very happy, although I'm sure he would've been happy if i had made different choices too.

Of course the most important thing for a father to do is get you through your childhood safely and happily and to give you all you need or require. But as an adult when he no longer has as much influence on you and you are about to embark on a new chapter on your life would it not be nice to have him by your side as he has been all your life? I think if it is going to make him happy then why not do it - it really is not going to ruin your day but might his

YA totally NBU.