Partner has issues with how attractive he finds me (i.e. not enough). Is there any way the relationship can work?

[honeydews]

We have been separated for a while now, but have been trying to work through some of our problems, to see if we can keep our family together. (We'd been together since our late teens, and are now in our early thirties with a young son.) This post concerns a particular stumbling block.

When we got together, I was quite a laugh and interesting to be with, but I didn't look great. I covered myself from head to toe in baggy, figure-hiding clothes - I was a bit of an ugly duckling as a teen.

However, I've come out of myself, appearance-wise, over the years - have worked out which colours and clothes shapes suits me, and what a tiny bit of make-up can do - and have been surprised to turn a few heads. I have 'unusual' features, I realise that - some people would think me a bit weird-looking, others striking. I'm not a grooming, girly girl nor especially frumpy, but I now believe (hope) I'm at least averagely attractive.

The problem is, it's not enough for DS's dad. He remembers me in our teens and can't seem to perceive me any differently. He has said that, of all our female friends, he'd rather be with me looks-wise, but that he isn't attracted enough, enough of the time. He likes fancy underwear, dressing up, uncomfortably tight jeans, more make-up, overly trimmed bits - all of which I do every now and then, but really, I'm a bit more 'everyday' than that; about halfway between his very glamorous mum and my couldn't-give-hoot-what-she-looks-like mum. I'm not a frump, but I don't glam up more than feels comfortable, and I don't want to be a sex object/accessory either.

I tend to swing between feeling hurt and as though I must be a bit of a minger, and thinking he has unrealistically high standards and that it's his problem.

Argh - I'm rambling. This has come up several times before, and I think I have become a bit obsessed about it as a result - sorry. Anyway, do you think this is something that can be worked through? I think it's important that, whoever I'm with, providing I'm making a reasonable, realistic effort, is happy with how I look most of the time - and I'm wondering if this is simply something a partner can't train themselves to feel.

What he is asking for sounds like a matter of bad taste.

I mean, women can look beautiful, be natural etc and more than likely it won't include uncomfortably tight jeans, loads of make up, or fancy underwear.

He needs to rethink what is attractive imo.

Honeydews Ignoring Anna (whom I usually adore) and going straight to the point. YOUR OP.

Your dh, he is now thinking back to your teenage years when he met you, and you were an ugly duckling, interesting, and dressed up in, well your personal style.

Has HE progressed and matured over the years?

You op made me think about a some friends of mine from teenage years. SHE was a stunning beaty with raven black hair and blue eyes, a terrific figure and very haute couture in a flee market sense of the word. HE was an artist. He broke it off with her after a few weeks, as he could not take that she looked totally different when they woke up in the morning, in her nightie, with no make up and hair in a mess. He LOVED the glamourous beauty, but the everyday girl who smiled at him in the morning did nothing for him. She was devastated.

Your dh sounds very immature. What is it, that has made him regress mentally to the point where you met? Is he questioning himself and his advancing years? Questioning his choices in life, and along with that, his partner, you? Is your dh going through a midlife crisis?

I think the quest for glamour goes a little deeper than the make up you wear and the clothes you dress in. YOU are not the key to his current unhappiness, HE is. He needs to figure out what he wants out of his life, and how to go about achieving it. It may not be about you at all, but about HIM. His hopes and dreams when you met, his career, how his life has panned out, now that he is realizing that you are actually growing old together.

Or am I totally off the mark?

Bloody hell QS Did he actually tell her that was why he was leaving her? What a vrey shallow puddle of a man.

I trust she went on to marry a gorgeous successful man who worshipped the ground she walked on? I do hope so!!

Honestly - some of these men need a real reality check dont they!

Honeydews,

Re your comment:-

"I have 'unusual' features"

Who told you that?. I bet they're not unusual at all actually.

His comments towards you are about power and control. I reckon as well that if you were to dress more to primarily please him (an absolute no because that smacks of control) you would remain unhappy - and he would not like it either because in his mind you would be sending out "signals" towards other men.

He is stuck in the past and remembers how you looked in your late teens (you were probably easier for him to control then). Now he is losing that power over you he does not like it one bit.

he wants to marry his mum, innit.
RUN!
Everyone is right except Anna who is clearly bonkers today.

Honeydews,

In my youth, I had a partner who was all about image. I was still finding my identity and what suited me. He made this time extremely uncomfortable for me by constantly criticising my weight (I was a UK size 8/10), my clothes (most of which he had picked out - it was just easier) and I finally realised he was just an idiot who was trying to create a porn star styled woman to show off to his friends.

This isnt about me - I've told you this so you know its not about you - its about him and his petty little preferences. If that is what appeals to him, then how has it taken him all these years to recognise it. He's having a bit of a crisis by the sounds of it. Tell him to buy a motorbike (get him well insured first though , a sportscar, coloured contact lenses or a damn wig, but have his crisis on his own time - not your's.

You deserve better. Realise this, and you will not give a flying fig what he does or does not want you to look like.

xx

PS Uma Thurman has unusual features, as does Julia Roberts..... Look at them!

xx

Anna, I really can't believe you actually think some of the things you are saying. Have you dug yourself into a hole that you can't get out of or are you just up for mischief? I agree with Wickerman, everyone else is right.

Would you for example expect a woman to get a boob job and wax her minge off just because her DH fancies the porno look? There is such a thing as self respect, you have to have it first and foremost for a marriage to work. You then have to respect your partner and vice versa. If he made you, (and you let him due to esteem issues) dress/look a way you don't feel comfortable with, how is that a healthy relationship dynamic?

OP, sorry you're going through this. Sounds like the issues are his, good on you for being true to yourself. I'm sure you look lovely.

Good post Seenit.

From Attilla "He is stuck in the past and remembers how you looked in your late teens (you were probably easier for him to control then). Now he is losing that power over you he does not like it one bit."

Sums up what I was thinking. If you were to really glam up like he wants, he will suddenly change his mind and pick on something else.

I agree that people need to find their partner attractive on some level, for eg when I first me my dh in my teens I thought he was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen. Obviously as we've got older and both make less of an effort then I realise that he's just a nice looking bloke but I still find him attractive (in the right light lol!)

I'd be very hurt if dh only found me attractive when dressed a certain way. He needs to love me for me and no what I look like cos obviously over time looks fade and tastes change.

I wouldn't mind making an effort to look nice to really impress him or something but it would bother me if everytime he looked at me I had to have makeup and smart clothes on.

Part of being together needs to be that you love eachother and respect eachother. HE really doesn'tt seem to be doing either.

OP, ignore Anna who seems to have timetravelled here from Victorian era.

Also ignore this insecure, shallow, joy-eroding little git of a man. Get rid. Find someone decent and sane. Good luck.

Sometimes, a partner's suggestions on style, dress etc, can be constructive, and implementing them can be enjoyable. But that;s when the partner making the suggestions has shown his/her affection and respect for the other partner in lots of different ways. The Op's partner sounds like a controlling, bullying dickhead - whatever she did, he would find something to criticise, because it's not about how she looks at all it;s about keeping her dependent and insecure and desperate to please him.
Tell him to fuck off, Honeydews.

Wow! Thank you all for your posts. You've helped me see that this is his issue, not mine, and I have politely but firmly parked it with him this evening.

He had booked a counselling session anyway, with a counsellor we have both visited on and off, and plans to talk this through with her along with some other things that are bothering him. I'm not holding out much hope of us being able to salvage the relationship, TBH, and I feel desperately sad about this for DS. But I also know I can't continue feeling inadequate; not enough. Staying would keep the family intact, but would teach DS some pretty warped stuff about relationships.

Thanks again for posting.

honeydews I am all for people being honest and admitting "sorry , I just don't fancy you any more".

It would save a lot of heartache if people just did that.

HOWEVER YOUR DP is saying something a bit different.

He wants you maximally primped up all the time otherwise he sees you as your former frumpier self? have I understood that correctly?

I just think that is downright odd. A straightforward "sorry, I don't fancy you " would be initially hurtful but at least would make sense.

I am glad that you don't feel you would try anything to fix the relationship, honeydews. Because whatever you did would not be enough, what this man gets off on is controlling a dependent and insecure parter, so it's much better for your self-esteem and mental health to keep him at a reaonsably amicable (because of DC) arms' length.

Honeydews I haven't read all the posts here but what an interesting discussion. You sound VERY like me in terms of how I approach my looks. I could never be high maintenance; I find women who spend hours on acrylic nails, hair straightening (mine is long and thick too, my DP calls it "mad" and loves it) and making sure all their accessories match totally baffling. And what's all the fuss about handbags? I have some lovely ones that cost me next to nothing at TK Maxx!

I have a style of my own; I was a hippy in the 70s and still look a bit boho sometimes but can do elegant and am often told how great I look (I'm 51). When I first met DP I did loads of deforestation but he's actually not bothered and that's a relief because I'm dark-haired and not just on my head! You seem to have found your own sense of style and are happy with it and by all accounts look gorgeous. Your DH is either not being honest or has issues regarding what he finds important in relationships. And the fact that you've been together since your teens would for me suggest that maybe you've both changed too much to continue. It's sad because of your DS but I can assure you, as a survivor of divorce (when DD was 6), it is possible to rebuild a far more fulfilling life afterwards.

I love making myself look attractive for my man but it's only because I know he really appreciates it and would never dictate to me what I should wear etc. I also do it for myself and wouldn't wear something I felt uncomfortable in - eg suspenders, which I think they are the work of the devil. I hope things are resolved for you Honeydews, never doubt yourself or how beautiful you are and try telling yourself it's his loss.

Hello,

just had to add my support to Honeydews. I'm so glad that you have found the advice on this thread helpful. Relationships must be based on so much more than looks. OK, so initial attraction is what might get people together in the first place(but this isn't always an image thing, right? It can be the way someone laughs or talks or moves) but lasting bonds develop from shared interests or values or outlook on life. This man needs to value you for who and what you are right now - so why is he only concerned with your appearance? (which, from what I've read, sounds lovely to me).

There are some great relationships to be had with people who want to be with each other. Either your dp wakes up and realises this or you find a new and lovely relationship.

By the way, I love to get glammed up (although I don't have the inclination, time or money to do this every day) but my dh never notices. On the surface I find this very annoying, as a "oh you look nice" from time to time would be good; but deep down I have an inkling that this is exactly how it should be...

You sound like you have changed over the years from someone insecure with a poor self image to someone who can with a bit of spit and polish look good just like all of us.The basic attraction between a couple is not something that can be faked with frilly knickers and a push up bra It is a deep down indefinable thing.The times when you both make the effort and look fab are the icing on the cake My dp is just as attractive to me in his old rags as when he gets done up for a night out.Anna you really need to post a pic of yourself as only someone stunning and perfect could be so crass and frankly ridiculous!

Thanks for the last few posts. Touched by your posts, sparky and sheena.

noddy, yes, I had awful self image in my teens. It's got better, although under the surface my self-esteem still wobbles fairly regularly. But I have learned not to hide myself, physically, but rather 'put it out there' a bit, with pride (and I don't mean that in a slutty way). I'm championing the flat-chested, unusual features, slightly-too-hairy look! Really, it's not as bad as it sounds.

It's painful to think of fully parting ways, because it really hasn't been all bad. There have been many, many windows over the years of happy times and some great memories. There have been times when I have felt very connected with DS's dad - as though we're on the same page with our values and goals - and then the looks thing has seemed to matter a whole lot less. But it has been there for a long time, this lurking sense of inadequacy - which I am sure is partly my 'stuff' too, to deal with. But I know he has wobbled fairly regularly on this over the years.

A few years ago, he had a breakdown which precipitated our separation - he went off the rails, behaved very selfishly and hurt DS and I a lot. Since then, and now with this recurring 'looks' issue back in the spotlight, I have found it difficult to conjure the levels of respect and warmth towards DS's dad, necessary to make things work. What's more, he's kind of lost himself in the process, IYSWIM, and so there's less of 'him' - a real identity - to fall back on; to connect with. I feel sad and scared to let go of all the good bits and the familiarity, the security, the support, the extended family - but none of this is any good if there's little real love and acceptance left at the core of our relationship.

sparky, I'm 31 - and I hope I'm like you in twenty years! I have a hippy streak too, which I think goes hand-in-hand with less fastidious grooming. I know there are men out there who get turned on by raw, natural womanliness - and I want one! Your post filled me with hope that, in time, all can be well post-separation. I'm so happy going it alone worked out for you. How did you support your DD through it smoothly? I worry about DS in this more than anything.

Thanks again for all the posts. This has been a bolstering thread for me.

Now I've stopped laughing after wickerman's post, I'd like to add that it sounds as if he wants you back to the teenage stage because that's where he mentally still is. Maybe that's with the 'losing himself' sensation it's the only place he can look at and feel certain of. You've grown up, he hasn't.

How you work it out, I don't know.

@ weblette. He and his mum are very close. She and I are very different. I have said to him, several times, that I wonder if he's really after a mini-mum in a partner. Cor, Freud could have had a field day with this!

Hi Honeys, glad my post helped and YES, it can not only be well post-sep but wonderful. The main thing that helped DD was and continues to be me and my ex's co-operation on all issues regarding her well-being. Despite the fact that he hurt me very deeply and did some awful things, I've forgiven him for her sake and she's reaping the benefits (and perhaps I am too, forgiving people is great for helping you move on).

She sees both of us as much as she wants to (we live close to eachother) and we're always friendly to eachother when we meet. If you decide to move on, I hope you and DH can work out what is best for DS. Is he capable of being a good dad? I hope so, but if he isn't you can still provide DS with all he needs; I was with a divorced friend last night who has two DC and their father has no interest in them. She is sad about it but is a wonderful mother and they are very happy.

As for men wanting raw, natural womanliness, I think they're the only ones worth having! Most men dislike barbies and the ones that don't usually have ishoos (like your DH). Embrace your inner-goddess and everyone will notice how you radiate self-confidence and real sex appeal! And once a hippy, always a hippy - I have a friend in her 80s who still has a touch of it about her, and she's one of the most interesting people I know.

Ah, thanks sparkybint. You're so positive about this - it is very encouraging, because of course most of what we hear about parents separating is negative and about how much the child(ren) suffer, and therefore very guilt-inducing. DS still half-thinks of us as together, a family, and I know he wants this, so it will hurt him if/when his dad and I part. I'd feel very responsible for his pain in being the one to say, "I can't make a go of this." I hope that one day, he'd understand it and respect me for it, and learn something worthwhile from my choice.

I am forgiving DS's dad; I wouldn't say I have forgiven him yet. For me it's a process, which stops and starts. DS's dad and I live close by, and he adores DS - would want to spend as much time as possible with him. This is ultimately a good thing, but I'll be very frank and say I feel heartbroken to think how much less I would see of DS - we're so close, and I haven't needed to work while he's been small so have been around a lot. So we'll be apart when he's with his dad, and when I'm working, and I feel sad about that.

And DS will become involved in a separate life from the one he has with me and I'll need to show an interest in it, because it's his life, even if it hurts to know all about it. Argh! (Can you tell I didn't get enough sleep last night?! I'm a bit glum today.) DS is also very attached to me, so I don't think would want to go off with his dad lots at the moment - though maybe more later on. At the moment, his dad comes here to see him.

I suppose the crux of it is that it will be a big change, and this feels both exciting and liberating, and devastating and bewildering. I'm sure we'll crack it, though; we'll have to, because carrying on as we are isn't an option. It's early days, too.

Thanks for your encouragement, sparky; it's really helped.

Honeydews, you'll be ready for some "you" time by the time your ds gets a bit bigger, honestly...when else are you going to develop this fabulous social life?

Seriously, don't knock it - getting the little blighters out of your hair once or twice a week does wonders for the mischief you can get up to!