Guilt of breaking up a family

[ThirtyOneGoingonFifteen]

I am on the verge of leaving my husband. I've tried and tried but I no longer love him. He hasn't done anything wrong and desperately wants to make things work, I just don't have romantic feelings for him anymore.

So if I do leave, how do I handle the guilt over hurting him so much, taking his son away from him and taking a loving father away from his son? Anyone been through a similar situation?

HTTM: Yup. I get bored with people sexually after a while. THat's why I don't engage in exclusive or long term sexual relationships: because they don't suit me.

Sayit, I said I was on the verge of leaving, but I didn't say I'd decided one way or the other. I may have given that impression because I'm not optimistic about things. If I leave then yes I want to be able to look back and say I tried everything and I was sure it was the right think to do. I'm not keeping anyone stringing on for the hell of it.

solidgold- sorry to hijack the OP postings, but how do you manage to separate sex and love?
Your attitude is very "male" in many ways, and I am just curious as to how it works for you.
Is sex just another need like eating etc?

I don't understand how some people can't separate sex and love: they are different things. (I won't use this line on you as it's harsh, but it used to serve me well in the chat show days 'SO if sex and love can't be separated, is it that you don't love your siblings/parents/offspring or that you have regular sex with them?')
These days I am less bothered about pursuing sex, but when I do feel inclined I go off and look for some (generally in swingers' clubs: safe environment with no hassle).
I have always found 'love' in the sense of romantic couplehood to be a nuisance after a short space of time. I actually like to be on my own a lot and can't be doing with a partner hanging round whining for attention.

solidgold - I feel sorry for you- if you have never had sex with a man you love and who loves you back, then you are imo missing out on one of life's tender experiences.

I don't see anything morally wrong in people shagging just for the sake of it, if they are both single and upfront about not wanting a "relationship", but most people do want both ( ie love and sex with one person).

I think men find it much easier to have casual sex without engaging their brain in any way, but most women can't. I for one, would have to at least LIKE the man and feel some connection, though it doesn't have to be love.

Sorry, but I don't get the chat show bit- sexual love is different from platonic love we feel for friends and family.

HTTM: Have had sex when 'in love', actaully. It's nice, or it can be. But so is sex for its own sake. And women are constantly pushed to pursue 'love' in a way that is actually about keeping them down: 'love' is the semi-imaginary bribe women are offered in order to make them service men.

And women are constantly pushed to pursue 'love' in a way that is actually about keeping them down: 'love' is the semi-imaginary bribe women are offered in order to make them service men.

LOL! Where do you get this stuff from?

WHO constantly pushes women to pursue love? he media? Glossies? Jane Austen novels? Chekov? Shakespeare? Or is art not a reflection of what is going on in our heads anyway?

Does it ever occur to you that we are biologically programmed to monogamy for at least 9 months, whilst we stay in the cave and he hunts for food? That is why researchers think that after 2 years- by the time the baby is born and weaned, we might just feel like a change! ( and sexual desire goes awry.)

Love= servicing men? Hmmm. I hate to sound judgemental, but you do seem to convey a rather narrow and cyncial view of relationships.

SG- I don't want to sound rude and I don't want to cross swords with you, but your comments are actually very offensive, if you can but see that; you are offending women ( and men) who seek love and who value love.
The idea that being loved by a man somehow equals being in chains, or is a trade-off in some way, is insulting. It is not a reality for most women, and certainly not for me.

If it suits you to not have a permanent relationship,( though I do wonder if you would feel like this if you had met the right man, who didn't bore you or "hang around" as you say) as you are an independent woman who likes her freedom, gets bored easily, can't really love a man as it's all too much hassle, then that's fine- stick with it. But please try not to make sweeping statements that are full of pseudo-psychology/sociology, which are not based on anything but your own feelings.

Could I draw a line here and say.... that you should not be guilty for breaking up a family, the family is already broken you are just keeping the appearances for everyone's sake.

You are being considerate with your husband trying to reduce the impact of your leaving. And that is a great thing to do, many people are not that nice.

Try not to think about the relationship as a mistake, or thinking you had a child with the wrong person. The truth is that at the time, when you got married, he was the right person, it's just that with time you both have grown up to be different or are focussed in incompatible things.

Clear your mind and decide what's best for you and your child. We can only talk from our own experiences, our life is better since exH and I gave up, but that may not be the case for other families/children. Some people may argue that there is no best solution than to stay put because for them it has worked, but that it's not necessarily the right solution for all cases.

But whatever you do, don't allow guilt to take over on this, you will have so many things in your plate getting to terms with your new life as a single mum, you really don't need to put more pressure on yourself carrying those negative feelings.

Now... being a bit cynical... nothing cures the guilt of leaving as going through a divorce process, particularly the separation of assetts

HTTM: we could carry on this discussion on another thread if you like (OP: sorry for hijacking).

MeMySonAndI,

"you should not be guilty for breaking up a family, the family is already broken you are just keeping the appearances for everyone's sake."

I know we've now drawn a line, but I think this is worthy of comment!

I think that is among the wisest things I've heard said on this subject. And I wish someone had said it to me when my marriage finally broke down.

Thanks, MeMySonAndI, that is a very good point. I just wish that if I have to be in this situation, it could be that both me and my OH feel the same way. Instead he is clutching at anything positive. For instance, now that we've started making an effort to spend proper time together every week, he's been talking about holidays and things in the future. It's not that I want him to feel negative all the time, but I hate the thought of bringing him crashing down again if the worst happens. It's never going to be plain sailing though I guess.

why is the OP's family as good as broken? Because she doesn't feel romantic anymore toward her H, and has fixed herself up a bit and maybe secretly thinks she can do better?

she herself said she has to consider "whether my doubts are genuine or whether i'm just looking for a way out because I'm bored with married life, in which case I should grow up and get my priorities straight."

seems to me that everyone on this thread who chose divorce wants to absolve themselves of any responsibility in the matter. (The marriage was broken! i was just the innocent bystander who had to pick up the pieces.)

doesn't the commitment of bringing a child into the world together count for anything? they don't ask, nor deserve to be, the victim of a parent's existential crisis.

Goodnightmoon, so you assume that just because I've started looking after my appearance, it means I now think I should leave my OH because I could maybe find a better catch? You can't make assumptions like that about someone you don't know!

Yes I do feel more confident about my looks, but I certainly don't look down on my OH in that way. He's a very attractive man. His looks are nothing to do with why I don't have romantic feelings for him anymore.

I'm sure most decent people who split from their partners take on a mountain of responsibility for the choice they made. But also they need to balance that with the belief that they've made the best decision they could.

goodnightmoon, that is a really interesting thought. I married my 1st DH at 23. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time but was a disaster. When I left him 18 months later, my Grandmother wrote me a letter saying something along the lines of "we make our beds and we get on with it - that's what I did".

I found that so sad, that she had been unhappy for a long time and for whatever reason couldn't change it. I vowed I would never let that happen to me.

15 odd years on though, I'm married again with a child. I love my DH, but there's none of the hearts and flowers stuff going on. We have dd, we're busy, we get on fine. I'd love him to be more thoughtful, more romantic, have more sex etc. Maybe I wish that our relationship was "better". Sometimes it makes me sad that all THAT is behind me and will I be jealous when it is dd's time? And I am not OLD fgs.

But surely this is life? You get the big attraction, you do all the shagging and then you just settle down and get on with it? Should I throw everything away for "romance" or "excitement"? Or am I depriving myself of something? Will I regret stuff like my grandmother does?

LOL my DCs aren't victims of anything.

My DCs are extremely bright, articulate, happy, gregarious, well behaved, confident, small(ish) people. My DCs are lucky that they now get to spend quality time with their father because he HAS to look after them for a day or two on a regular basis, whereas before he barely saw them, let alone communicated with them!

I haven't heard (read?) anyone try to 'absolve themselves of any responsibility in the matter,' just some people who are lucky enough to have come out on the other side and be in a position to say 'yes, we are all better off now.' Some people who are are non-judgemental enough to say 'you must do what you think is right, when you think it is right, and you deserve support,' rather than 'you made a mistake and now you should live with the consequences forever.' I think in this point it is important to remember that by condemning one person to lie on the bed they made forever, one is also condemning their DP to a lifetime in a loveless (and possibly deeply unhappy) marriage. In addition, being a mum who stays forever even though she is deeply unhappy, is providing an extremely poor role model to any DCs, who could possibly be taught in a subsequent relationship (where one hopes the same mistakes aren't made!) the value of true love, fellowship and understanding - only now do my DCs see on a day to day basis how a loving relationship works. Only now are they living in the type of relationship which I hope they will strive to find for themselves now they know they exist.

I can't quite work out whether to be shocked (I am certainly astounded) that ANYONE thinks they have the right to judge someone else in this way, or whether to roll about laughing. On balance I think it is very sad

Also I am judged as someone I am not. I NEVER thought I'd get divorced. Never in a million years. I thought I'd stick it out forever. I worried deep inside how I'd cope once the DCs had left home and it was just the two of us, but I thought I SHOULD lay in the bed I'd made for myself. I did NOT take the easy way out. I did NOT make any decisions lightly. But, luckily for all of us, I eventually realised that we all deserved peace and happiness.

Portoeufino, but you LOVE your DH! So relationships change over time, but you still LOVE each other. You would never throw that away in search of excitement would you? This is not the same as your first marriage - which you say was a mistake.

Surely loving someone but being a little sad that the initial intenseness(?) has faded over time is very different to not loving someone at all, but thinking you should stay because of duty or guilt?

LOL I often think I'll just be constantly worried when its DCs' time...I hadn't thought about jealousy

one thing to add to the thread is that men are often worn out by the early years of childcare too, and are not at their most dazzling.

it might be that he needs to get out more, do the things that make him feel alive, and then he may become more appealing to you again - im not sure how you get that to happen though!

perhaps you can encourage him to get away every other weekend (or bit less) so you get some space and he gets to liven up a bit. Then you get to see what life may be like - if you love it or hate it, and he gets a chance to start building a life without you?

also, thinkng about it, keeping up appearences is subjective isn't. I thought we did a good job of this...but when we split up I was shocked by the number of people who said various things along the lines of 'about time - I can't believe the two of you have stuck that relationship out for so long'!

And if the odd person may have thought we should all live forever in misery, I'm grateful they didn't say so. Thus I think support at a very difficult time is invaluable.

sorry 31, i should give you more credit. i just have a problem that the general attitude has become that it's ok, even preferable, to give up.

fourkids - i'm sure self-absolution is entirely rational if one comes out the other side. i also have said that IMHO, divorce can work for kids under the right set-up (sadly rare).

and i don't think lying in the bed you made means resigning yourself to a life of unhappiness.

this is quite interesting because people get polarized (as on other emotive topics) and things come out as being black and white...(all of us)

so, for the record, i would like it to be known that I haven't here, and don't, think that giving up on a marriage is preferable to trying to make it work. But I suspect it's quite unusual for people to give up without first trying.

But I do most definitely think that it's ok to call it a day if it is beyond repair. I'm interested to know, goodnightmoon, if you would agree with that, or if the point you are making is that it is never okay to get to the point where you say enough is enough? (I am honestly not being in any way confrontational, I am interested in your point of view)

Also, lying in the bed you made CAN mean resigning yourself to a life of unhappiness...surely there are stuations (barring the obvious abusive relationships) where you would support someone who felt they'd made the right decision based upon their inside knowledge of the relationship and the course it had already run?

Self-absolution is relative too. I, for example, feel completely at ease with my decision to seperate from ExH, but I still feel guilt for marrying the wrong man in the first place However I can't undo that...all I could do was do my best to put things right for all our sakes.

I think the idea that everyone should live in a couple-relationship is pretty grim, actually. People can respect each other as co-parents and care for their children throughout various different family structures, with everyone being happy. It always rather irritates me that breakdowns and unhappiness in unconventional relationships are always cited as 'proof' that the non-traditional model doesn't work, yet the traditional heteromonogamous model breaks down all the time and yet people still keep banging on about how it's the right way when it so demonstrably ISN'T right for large numbers of people.
If something's that fucking wonderful it doesn;t need a whole propaganda industry to flog it to people.

SG
you obviously feel so strongly about permanent relationships, or couple- relationships,that this view influences every post- but you have to accept that MOST ( not you) people want that.

Why do you keep blaming the media for something, rather than just accepting that you are different to most people in what works for you?

There is masses of evidence that most children do better in a 2-parent family unit, and to deny this is to ignore the facts.

As I said before, I think your opinion that we are all brainwashed into wanting something is really insulting to the thousands of highly intelligent, well-informed women who read MN.
What works for you works for you, but why do you keep criticising people who want something different?

HTTM: I am not criticising people who want to live in the traditional setup, I am criticiaing the pressure on people who are unhappy in their traditional set up to just suck it up rather than dealing with the fact that the setup itself may not be right for them. People often go on about the wonderful family values of the 50s, and it's not unfair to say that the 50s nuclear set up worked well for men and for children in many cases. However, the reason it got junked and there was a social revolution was that it was SHIT FOR WOMEN.

Quite a few of the postings on this thread have been peddling the message that if the OP's H and DC are happy with the set up but she is not, then she is a bad person, her feelings are less important than theirs, and that she should 'grow up' and accept that being a woman means a life of servitude and acceptance of everythingbecause if you have a vulva you exist for other people's benefit and not your own.

fourkids - I do think there are situations where enough is enough. In this particular situation, with admittedly very limited information and no chance of real insight into the OP's life, it didn't appear to me that things were beyond repair.

I know it is difficult to weigh up what is best for the kids and what is best for the parents. I know most parents don't take it lightly either if they decide to part.

But drawing upon the posts above between HTTM and SGSB, these decisions are also influenced by social norms and ideals.

At the moment, there is a strong ideal of putting the pursuit of personal happiness first, and very little stigma around disrupting children's lives through divorce.

I am not proposing going back to the 50s. But I do agree with HTTM about the clear evidence that children benefit from a two-parent household. One issue only lightly touched upon here is the financial ramifications. Women and children almost invariably lose out financially in a divorce. And for all the families that make it work, and both parents continue to see the children, there are many more where the father is out of the picture entirely.

SGSB, I'd say the current state of affairs is pretty shit for women too, and that the backlash from that social revolution has led to all sorts of new shit. I also think you are drawing the gender line here, because I think the advice given by some to "grow up" would equally apply if it were the man looking to leave the relationship.

SG
I think you are being very black and white here, and also making sociological points that are far removed from the OP question.

The 1950s were not shit for all women- I was a child in the 50s and my mother who is now in her 80s was wonderfully happy as a SAHM, as were/are her friends.

I don't know what your issues are, but you seem to have some, as well as a lot of anger about somethings, in that you seem to see men or society as wanting to keep women in servitude. This is far removed from my own experience and those of my contemporaries- we are independent, well educated women who choose to stay or not stay with men because we love them/they love us, or not.

The OP asked if she should feel guilty about breaking up her family; I don't think she was thinking of how society would see this, but more how she can come to terms personally with breaking up a marriage which is not terrible in any way- it is just not giving her what she wants. I don't see the need to set this in a sociological context and bang your drum.