Fallout from an affair, how many chances does he get? what do I do next?

[McCharlieMouse]

Ok, I've never posted before so this is a bit scary but have read lots of threads on affairs and have found other peoples experiences hugely useful in dealing with my situation but I've got to a point where I need some suggestions directly on my situation...so some help please. I will try not to ramble too much...

My DH had a 5mth affair last year whilst I was pregnant and while our DS was a little baby. DH moved out and we don't currently live together. After I found out about the affair we jointly decided that we would try and give our marriage a go. We have been going to relate (which I found very helpful) and I thought things were progressing well. I have found out this week that DH has still been having contact with the OW (who he works with - not directly but he does see her 1/2 week in the office) and has been out for drinks with her. He says he doesn't know what he wants but thinks he might still be in love with her. He does still have feelings for me but says these are different feelings to those he has for her (not that surprising - Me: knackered mother of 8 mth old, Her: skinny single woman with no children).

Last night I told him I'd had enough and couldn't deal with this any more, I have acted with dignity throughout and tried to make our relationship work. I actually felt some relief and for the first time since I found out about the affair I felt I had control of the situation. He has since sent me some texts and he is obviosuly panicing. He says he doesn't think his future is with the OW and that if there is a glimmer of hope in our relationship we should give it a go.....so what do I do?? Has he finally come to his senses?

To complicate things we have a holiday booked next week (I thought things were going well so we booked to go away!). I said last night I was cancelling it - he texted and suggested some proper time together with no distractions might be what we need. So do we go....??

Am I a complete nutter for even considering giving him another chance?

He is coming round at lunchtime so I am trying to prepare myself and workout what to do...any help appreciated.

i would recommend you take some time to be apart rather than rushing into anything.

he blatantly doesn't know what he wants and you should both concentrate on your child until things settle down.

maybe set a date in a few weeks to come together to discuss how you're both feeling about the relationship.

definately don't go on holiday with him.

I agree with blinks, you need time apart. You've been very strong up till now, it's a wonderful thing to be able to act with dignity when things are collapsing around you and you deserve to be proud of yourself.

He sounds desperately immature and needs to grow up. If he can't, you're most definitely better off without him. Good luck and let us know what happens.

I have been there and what you are going through is so common it is scary - the same script over and over.

He has the choice now - and this is not you being unreasonable in anyway - there has to be NO contact between him and ow EVER. He will no doubt give you the usual tripe about it being only work related blah blah blah and make you feel bad for making him choose between you and work. HE MADE THAT CHOICE REMEMBER NOT YOU.

I did try the 'letting them work together' - it does not work - she will have a very different agenda to you and him and will at every chance undermine that and probably try to destroy him at work anyway if she does not get her way (and to some extent i have some sympathy - she will be hurting too).

Please please dont try and make things work until you can be sure he will not have contact again and if that means giving up work then let him - again that is his choice not yours and you are not forcing him into it.

Re the holiday - is there anyway you could go alone and give him the time to sort himself out at home? You will get a boost about being able to cope alone on holiday and it will give him a clear signal that you mean business.

My last piece of advice it to get yourself some tip-top legal advice asap, shop around if you have to until you find someone you are comfortable with. You may not need it but it will be a great comfort to you knowing that you again have taken that first step. It is very very hard but i did this and it was money well spent imo.

We are still together 2.5 years - it is not easy and i wish i could go back and take some of my own advice - although i am not sure it would have changed the outcome - but it may have saved me an awful lot of heartache at the time.

At the moment you are in limbo and it will suck the life from you, and when you are ready you will find the strengh and take that control again, but the question is will it be too late for your h?

Set your boundaries of what you want and make sure he now lives up to them - you are at least worth that and show him and the rest of the world too. Only you know what you can accept from now on and dont be afraid if that changes over time too - you will be learning an awful lot about yourself too.

Anyway good luck and if you want you can cat me if you want to chat more.

The thing is, while you sound like the sort of strong, good person who could forgive him, will you ever be able to forget? That was my problem when ex-DH had a fling - I could understand all his reasons, and forgave him, but I couldn't ever forget about it. And that was the deal breaker, for me.

You don't need to make a decision about the rest of your life by lunchtime. Cancel the holiday, sit and think about things for a couple of months - work out if you miss him, work out if you can forgive and forget. This is a big deal - he's wrong to be pushing for you to make a quick decision. If he is serious about saying there's a glimmer of hope then he needs to stop seeing the OW at once - there does seem to be an element of having your cake and eating it.

I think he's probably right that some quality time together will help you work out what you both want, but next week is just way too soon for that.

Sounds to me like he wants to have his cake and eat it! You deserve better than for him to mess you around. If he really wanted to make a go of things, he would certainly not be popping out for a drink with the OW and telling you he still has feelings for her. Can you go on the holiday without him, and give yourself some time to think about things?

hassled - that is sad - and i think it is a very valid point but until she has gone through it she will not know if she can forgive and forget.

I am not sure it is healthy to try to forget actually - it is a huge thing and as long as both people can learn from the 'experience' and move on together, things can work.

My h is a changed person - we have both worked hard at re-building our marriage. But for me it is more about not going back to the old relationship as starting a new one, with a fimiliar person.

It is hard to think about how long we have been marriage as i tend to think of how long we have been post affair, again this is odd.

But rather than never mentioning it we do try and keep it in its place - it is hard not to 'harp back' but my h will now help when he knows i am struggling and is very willing to still talk about it.

I dont think i will ever be so trusting of anyone again (and i am sure even if i had started again with a new person - would not fully trust them). But again we both know that and he is doing all he can to make me feel safe again - and slowly we are making progress, we are both better at talking through problems now.

So although the marriage is different in some ways it is better and i try to focus on that than on the negative emotions the past brings.

I understand where you are coming from completely. My first post was rather similar to yours in that I found out my DH had an affair over the later stages of my pregnancy and the 1st few weeks of our 3rd DCs life.

We are now 3 months down the line and still havent resolved any issues. He still isnt back and the longer he tells me he dont know what he wants the more I think I dont want to be his 2nd best and that I deserve someone better who knows how they feel about me.

I agree with the prev posters that its too soon for the holiday next week and maybe just have some time apart for now and give him and YOU a chance to think. I would also want him to stop seeing the OW as it just doesnt send out the right message if he is still in contact and talking to her. I know you said you had been going to relate but maybe you need to bring this up in the next session.

Only you know if you think your relationship can come through this. My main issue with my DH is the lies. Im not sure I could ever trust him again to be honest and I dont want to live my life searching phones and pockets for things that may or may not be there.

Thanks for the replies so far - I never realised how useful MN could be till I started reading other peoples posts about their post affair experiences. I'll keep you updated.

SparkyOldBint - have you met my DH?! "immature and needs to grow up" ...spot on!

Our holiday is a ski holiday - so not really one for going on my own.On the flip side of that we are in a shared chalet so there wouldn't be too much awkward or isolated 1:1 time.

I think Sparky has met my DH too describes him perfectly!!

Okay, as someone who has been through something similar... at the moment he has got it all. Ties with you and you waiting for him, but this woman feeding his ego also, plus god knows what he is telling her about you (probably 'I don't know what I want because I love you but I don't want to hurt my family - just wait for me while I sort this out' and all sorts of other angsty rubbish which pushes the emotion buttons that don't really get pressed in a proper stable relationship ie he's keeping his options open, whether he means to do this in a hurtful way or not - he probaby thinks he just wants to be sure that he makes the right choice rather than moving in with one of you only to flee in a couple of weeks).

The situation is intolerable for all of you, so someone needs to force his hand. As you are the strong one, this has to be you (believe me it is awful, though, and I know how crappy it feels). My H was living at a friends, emailing the OW (thankfully she lived miles away) but trying to spend as much time with me as possible and act as a normal family owing to guilt (I miss you so much but how can I love you enough to spend my life with you if I could do this and feel this for someone else was a common theme) and indecisiveness. So finally I'd had enough, just wanted to get on with my life and packed up every little bit of his stuff, took it to his new 'home' and told him he could see the kids for 2 hours a day or for visits at weekends by prior arrangement.

This gave him a real glimpse of his future - I honestly don't think he'd considered that leaving would mean little contact with us before - and within a week this had concentrated his mind and she was gone. I wish I'd done it sooner and been a lot harsher. Let him know that if he comes back he will also need to change jobs - absolutely no contact allowed. Again, within 2 weeks of no contact with the OW the scales fell from my H's eyes and he finally saw her for the manipulative, lying madam she was... But think carefully about what you want, it is not an easy road and in fact it gets worse once the 'battle' bit is over - you suddenly think why the hell did I waste time and energy trying to regain this lying, cheating scumbag as you have time to dwell on the issues.

As for the holiday - we had a christening to go to abroad 2 weeks after it all came out. We still went and had a good time, and I actually think it helped as he saw me in my best light and it reminded him of why we'd been together. Plus she couldn't reach us there... Do what you think is best and good luck, it is awful and I really feel for you.

No girls, haven't met your DHs but was married to a Peter Pan so know the type!

abedelia, although its aimed at the OP I find a lot of your post rings very true with my situation too. DH been spending lots of time with us in fact far more then he previously did when he lived here!

There is some great advice in there. Can I ask though are you back together now? Sorry fairly new to MN so dont know your story.

Yes we are - and doing well outwardly, though i have serious issues with the fact that H would rather not talk about anything to do with it ever again whereas I really need to discuss and get reassurance on stuff from time to time, particularly things I know he is still keeping from me - it's not that I want every detail, I just know when he is lying and want him to get it all out so we can start again with no more revelations.

But when I bring it up (or he catches me after I have randomly burst into tears as happens occasionally if something triggers me) he flies into a rage as he hates himself for doing it all. So far we have had a broken fist (no damage to wall, thankfully! and broken cooker door owing to this). tried Relate but had awful experience so that's out, we will just have to keep on with it. I still think about leaving every day though (4 months on from him telling her no more contact) and still resent him a lot and what he did to me/dcs. But he is trying hard, is a lot more affectionate than he was and spends more time with us, not at work now.

Not to hijack thread but to briefly recap on my situ for whatdoyouall - H had a 6 week emotional text/email/phone affair with his old assistant last year. He'd fancied her for a while before (and he had told me, though said her personality was dull and she was very self centred - we used to joke about these things as we were very close, no problems in relationship etc) but at his leaving do (we moved across the country) he admitted he found her attractive and she then texted, emailed him hinty stuff for a couple of days before he then mailed 'feelings mutual' back and it all sparked off. After the 6 weeks (during which time he was a shit to me - I thought he was depressed and she was cheerig him up with her calls, trusting idiot I am) he had to go back on business and they met and quickly shagged in his hotel (she had to get home as she's married) then he came home looking guilty and it all came out - I found emails. Then he found out she'd lied about loads of stuff (they bonded over her tale of nursing someone as they died - except turns out they aren't dead at all, plus her love of things he loved, again all culled mistakes and all from Wikipedia it turned out. Basically she'd invented lots of her personality for him)

So, I kicked him out but he hung around despite telling me he thought he loved her / if he came back it would only be for the kids but really missed me, wasn't sure if he loved me enough etc etc (while apologising and us sleeping together lots - though didn't let him stay over as punishment). That went on for 3 weeks, then she started emailing him again to explain her lies and why she'd gone back to her H (threats of violence, wrecking her career etc, supposedly) but it turned into her emailing love notes and demands for my H to stay in touch for a year till she got her visa and had finished some job training so could get a divorce, at which point I snapped as he was telling me about their content but suddenly got the lying look on him again. So there we go, another happy tale!

Thanks for going over it for me! My DH has told me none of the details and everything that I do know ive found out from other people or pure guess work on my part. Im the same as you in that I want the details not to punish myself with but so it doesnt come out so many weeks or months down the line. Also it feels like he is protecting some kind of special memories of her-silly I know!

My DH also says if he came back it would only be for the kids but then follows up with I love you/still find you attractive etc and its confusing. Ive just got a little harder on him and told him all the i dont know business has to stop he has till the end of the month to decide what he wants or im starting divorce proceedings.

If he says he wants to come back I dont actually know what I will say now. Guess I have a lot of thinking to do.

It is actually possible to love more than one person at a time: unfortunately there is massive cultural pressure not to do so.
What is worse, though, is the awful passive position the primary partner is put in when this happens: waiting and hanging on while the other partner 'decides what he/she wants.'
THe decision the primary partner has to make is more along the lines of 'can I live with an open relationship/can I set acceptable boundaries on it?' If the answer is no, then you have to say to the other partner, I am not waiting for your decision, here;s mine. You're moving out. Talk to me again in 6 months (or similar). THough make sure you have got all your legal info in place before you do that.

i agree with solidgold. And surely, after the first time, and with going to Relate etc, he's had time to think already? He sounds like he's using your forgiveness and stringing it out now. And if wanted 'time alone without distraction' he could have engineered that without insisting you still go on holidays together.

The cultural pressure not to love more than one person at a time is because to BE in the position of being loved alongside someone else is unbearable. If you don't want to have to be the passive person yourself at some point then you have to make the choice. Solidgold's right - as I found, you need to seize control or it will drag on and make it worse. The longer it is all up in the air the more broken it all becomes as there is more to get over... I remember a post from a bloke on another thread who said he actually eventually had some sort of breakdown when placed in this position as the stress was so great, so sooner sorted the better. I took my H back as I did love him and felt I owed it to my kids to at least try. Sometimes though in darker moments I do feel I may be off with the first decent person who asks, just because everything has been dirtied and it will never be the good thing it was - it wasn't eben like anything was wrong, just lust+opportunity = bit of a change and the chance to feel like an idiot teenager, even though this crapped all over his kids.

PS Whatdoyouall, interesting about the 'keeping their little secret / special memories' thing, as that's what I have been thinking but couldn't quite put into words, and hopefully will now do so to him next time it all gears up.

Also - beware of going to relate too early, i think - I can't see how it could help much unless he is actually committed to the relationship and so this is part of working to make it better?

I don't think I could forgive him if it were me. I wouldn't want to be with someone who was dithering over loving me or someone else. I'd take the decision into my own hands. I'm faithful and I expect the same in return. If someone doesn't want to be faithful, then simply they are not the person for me and I am not the person for them. That's just me though, everyone's different.

He didn't have to have an affair, he could have came to you at any point and discussed with you how he was feeling. A partnership/marriage is meant to be equal. When someone takes away your equality by making their own choices behind your back, you have to make your own selfish choices regardless of what he thinks.

There's no way I'd be going on holiday with him. You buckled down and adapted to look after your family, you didn't go and find solace in another person to escape from your daily life.

TBH it sounds like you do want to try and make it work and I wish you luck in that. If you are going to do that, don't make it easy for him until you are 100% sure that he is with you in the way that you want him to be with you. Do not accept half measures and if he is dithering, let him go because you will never be happy with him.

a couple more points - i do think it is possible to love more than one person at a time and i am not without my own temptations in the past (never carried out though), so i do understand the strong feelings that can develop. But it is not a cultural thing it is the lying that wrecks the marriage not the sex or whatever. The fact that it is 'forbidden' also helps to keep the magic spark going.

With regards to the anger outbusts when the subject is raised - this is not accecptable and although he may be feeling imense guilt it is nothing to the hurt you felt only a few short months ago.
It is a fact that the affair happened and he needs to now focus on your needs to talk and not his own to 'forget' it.
It is hard but i do believe that after time you will become bored with it too but until then please do what feels right for you.
He needs to get some help for the anger anyway.

Like i said my h is a changed man and even though it is hard will even now talk about it.

I also agree with the poster who said give him a taste of what life will be like and that too was the main turning point for my h.

Until I made the decision to go it alone he was able to dip in and out of our lives when he wanted on his terms - when he realised what he was really going to have to live with.

But he also had to stop all contact and if you are open and honest he will be able to tell you when he is finding it tough too.

I would certainly chuck out a bloke who is punching walls and baying at the moon. ALl that kind of self-flagellating is inherently selfish: not only is it ignoring the fact that you have as much right if not more to be angry and anguished, it can be a bit consciously intimidating ie dont keep bringing up my bad behaviour or I wont be responsible for what I do next, bwaaaaah, look, you drove me to it...

Yes, and in the long run pushing things down and not dealing with them isn't exactly healthy... problem is that I really hated relate, which would otherwise be a good place to go to discuss it all neutrally. At the moment he is behaving like it's life as normal once again whereas I am repressing a lot of stuff and having nightmares / generally resenting him.

Back to the OP, I only gave my H another chance as the 'thinking' stage was relatively short. If it came to dithering for months I'd never have let him back.

Abedelia you have had a very similar experience to me ? I am a year on from it all, still together. It takes a long time to get over it (and in our case the relationship with the OW lasted only about 3 weeks in total) but it can be done ? our relationship is good and better than it has ever been now.

My Dh was similarly reluctant to discuss the affair with me and I wanted every detail. At first it was because he didn?t want me to shine a spotlight on the fantasy world he had created for them ? he had convinced himself that this was a grand passion when in fact it was more like a teenage crush. He wanted to keep his special thing special. Then he began to resent me for bringing it up and being upset ? dismissing my feelings and justifying his behaviour by saying I wasn?t allowing us to move on. Sometimes he would close the discussion down by getting angry and storming off. All the tricks. Be in no doubt ? this nehaviour is destructive and means that you haven?t started the rebuilding process yet.

I read a lot of the affairs threads and there really is a pattern to all of them. OP you are at the tipping point ? this is the moment where you have faced up to being on your own without DH. You know you can be alone ? you may not want to but you know you can do it and it will be OK. So you are in a position where you can make a CHOICE, rather than being focused on trying to fix something which is broken.

I had got to the stage where I asked DH to leave. In our case, DH realised what a total fool he had been and asked for another chance. He convinced me by his ACTIONS that he was serious about making things work ? not by telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. This meant that DH went to a counsellor to sort his head out, told me everything about the affair, ?took? my anger without making excuses or getting angry himself and broke off contact with the OW in my presence.

Agree about Relate - we went to Relate too early and it was disastrous. If I am honest I just wanted someone objective to tell him what a total shit he was. What I found helped was seeing a counsellor on my own ? it helped me make sense of what happened and also helped me to see that I couldn?t fix things alone, nor could I fix them quickly.

Holyguacamole re: not wanting to be with someone who was unfaithful - I would have said the same before it happened to me. It?s not as simple as that though ? you?re in a state of shock and grief when you find out and it takes a while to find yourself again and locate how you really feel.

God Iris, that makes total sense to me. He is actually being good today - I am a bit off as I was kept up all night be screaming nightmares about them and he picked up on it, told me off for trying to hide it and then said we will talk later. So perhaps things are getting better? I have also made a conscious decision to be a bit less miserable about it after we had a heart to heart last month, meaning he is getting more 'reward' from being about and working on it than there was at first when things were really hard. The stuff you say about Relate is absolutely spot on, as is the 'not allowing us to move on' nonsense / avoidance.

In our case I did ask him to leave also about 3 weeks ago because he was behaving badly about other things (just being a bit snappy with me), it escalated to a big row, he said he was starting to regret having done what he did less and less so I suddenly went dead calm and said 'just leave then, that's it, I'm not taking this'. I didn't back down, he cried, and after this things have been slowly better. i think I sometimes expect too much from how long it will all take.

Back from lunchtime chit chat with DH and I laid down the law. No contact what so ever with OW or there is no point going forwards. He seems to think there is a definitive answer somewhere that will come like a bolt from the blue. It is obvious that DH is incredibly confused, as well as selfish/ immature etc.. His naivety throughout this whole period is quite unbelievable at times.

It is interesting what some people are saying about going to relate too early - maybe that was the case with us. I have suggested to DH that he considers going on his own as at present he seems to want me to counsel him.

Still feeling quite strong and positive. No decisions made on going away but obviously would not even vaguely consider it unless all my conditions met. The alternative I have suggested to him is a complete time out for him next week holing up somewhere on his own or with friends he can talk to.

Watch this space.....

Iris, that is a good insight into all the phases we go through in something like this. I have had the he dont want to talk about it ive had the anger when we have talked about it. Finally I have the I will talk to you 100% honestly and answer all questions from him(only took me 2 months!) whether he will answer them all honestly or clam up I dont know. We are having our talk tommorow.

Also agree with Iris on the you dont actually know what you would do in these circumstances till you face it.

Abedelia, I hope you and your DH can move on from it and is good that your DH is going to talk to you later and noticed that you was hurting.

OP, How did your lunchtime talk with your DH go?