Help me do the right thing - Friend is planning an abortion. I think she's doing the wrong thing but, somehow, I need to be supportive of her decision <glup>

[NorktasticNinja]

OK, so maybe she's not really a friend in the strictest sense of the word, (she's DPs business partner's wife) but our lives are totally and utterly intertwined and we like each other a lot.

She already has one DD who's 18 months, wants more children and wasn't using contraception. Now she's pregnant and will be having an abortion on Friday . I find her actions and choices really hard to swallow, but obviously it's not about me and what I think or feel about the situation or her choices.

I haven't actually spoken to her myself yet, her DH told my DP this afternoon. DP's the type who can be frank and open about his feelings (the same as mine) without upsetting or hurting anyone's feelings. That's not something I could pull off.

She's made her decision, it can't have been easy and I know I have to be supportive. It's going to be farkin hard. I'm pregnant with DC2 myself ATM (24 weeks) and although I'd always stand up for a woman's right to choose I could never have an abortion myself, whatever the circumstances.

I just can't understand WHY she wasn't using contraception when she's this against have a second child now.

So, help me do the right thing. Please. How can I go about being supportive of her? What can I say?

I'm just so horribly shocked and sad about the whole thing.

This is really helping, thanks. My hormones are all over the place...

You are right, I do disapprove (well, kind of, or something like that) but it's not my place to have those feelings. Or is it? Maybe it's worse not to be honest if I'm asked to be.

veryembarrassedmummy - I don't know why I feel the need to protect her either, I need to think about that. It just seems like the only fair thing to do.

I'll talk to DP about all of this when he gets home. I don't think he'll understand though, he just asked the questions he wanted to ask when he was told. That's his way and he getts away with it too

Oh, and DP has offered my Persona machine and I am to take it with me tomorrow. FFS.

Maybe if they want to avoid pregnancy something more than a persona would be useful? OBviously know nothing of them and their contraceptive choices but if they are in a position where an unwanted pregnancy leads to abortion, perhaps they should be using more effective contraception.

Well exactly! But what do I say, "sorry, no, you can't have it. It's time you started using serious contraception if you don't want to be pregnant". Seems a bit harsh to me, even if it is true.

You don't judge women who feel the need to have an abortion - by showing your negative feelings you obviously are judging her!

Why don't you tell your DH to tell his friend, the father, that you would rather not discuss it being pregnant yourself?

They were just counting BTW, no form of ovulation spotting (CM, temp, tests etc), no condoms, nothing. That's one of the reasons I'm finding this so hard.

Agreed.

Think you are in seriously difficult position. I know you have to let people get on with their lives, but I personally would not be relying on a persona if an unplanned pregnancy would lead to abortion

x - I have no intention of showing her my negative feelings. Only MN and DP.

Like I already said, refusing to discuss it is basically showing my negative feeling (IMO)...

I'm interested to know what her reasons are - it might help us formulate something you could say to her I think, maybe?

Thanks Pooka.

I can see why they don't want to have another child now, even though they have a lot more support than us and are older too. I regularly have attacks of terror at doing it myself in our current situation, even though this baby way planned. DD will be 18 months when DC2 comes, the business is new and it's going well but things are really uncertain and I have no support other than DP who works really long hours. TBH it's madness, for either myself or her to have another child!

Fark, now I'm worrying that she'd have kept it if I wasn't pregnant.

Sorry Flight. She (I say she but I assume it's a totally joint decision) doesn't want to have this child because she wants to wait until the situation with the business is more stable and there is more financial security.

We don't have to agree with everything other people do - and your feelings are valid, negative or otherwise.

However, as an adult, you can choose whether to express the feelings in a neutral way, in an aggressive or disapproving way, or not at all.

Likewise, she can choose to interpret your reaction or lack of it as negative, neutral or positive.

All you can do is respond as you think a decent human being should and know you've done the right thing.

Oh what a shame

I very much doubt it's because you are pregnant...not many people are that altruistic! (if that's what you meant)

You could maybe approach it from some common ground...how you are also worried about the financial side of it but think God will provide (if you're religious) or that things will somehow work out - and that you will help her in any way you can if she decides to go ahead and have the baby after all.

That way you let her know she has support if she wants to change her mind. I'm not sure how well it would work though.

I totally understand how you feel btw xx

If I were you and she does bring it up and you really have to, say something something along the lines of "are you absolutely sure this is what you want, I know your worried about money but it will be ok - I just want you to know that I support you whatever you decide to do but you can change your mind if you want to. It isnt set in stone until its done."

Your comment about her being older just flagged something for me. Has she had an amnio done.

maybe you should talk to her before Friday.

who knows, maybe she could use a different perspective.

you could reach out and ask if she wants to talk it through at all. (since she sounds quite open to frank discussion.)

maybe she has made up her mind but how could she not have a few doubts ...

to me those don't sound like great reasons not to have a child now.

i had an abortion several years ago for insanely stupid reasons (and then went on to have miscarriages and fertility problems) and i really wish someone had given me a good shake and asked if i had really thought through what i was doing.

no one questioned my conviction that it wasn't "the right time," not even my good friend who was pg with number one herself at the time. DH left it to me because he thought i knew what i was doing.

it sounds like she is being very short-sighted.

Blimey, I'm not religious, that probably would be helpful though. I wish I did think God would provide! I am worried about the financial side of things but I was brought up with very very little money (most of which my father drunk), and I've done my fair share of budget stretching in my own right too. I know I'd always make ends meet. It's the practical stuff that scares me...

With suddenly worrying if she'd have kept it if I wasn't PG I meant more for pragmatic than altruistic reasons. There's a certain workload related to the business that we share (office stuff, financial admin, looking efficient for clients, 'y know that sort of thing) and maybe she was worried about leaving that in the lurch whilst I can't do much either. It can't be that though, surely, she's quite a cold type, but certainly not inhuman. It must just be hormonal worrying.

Cripes, I just can't help wondering WHY they let it happen when they really really didn't want it to.

I am also frighted of the frankness of Dutch discussions, I can't hide from this one.

x's again. It's still really really early, less than 6 weeks, so no, no amnio.

goodnightmoon - I'm sorry you've had a tough time Thank you for your perspective, I'd not thought of it like that. Would you not have been hurt and offended if someone had questioned your decision at the time?

I'm seeing her tomorrow now. Maybe I should just be honest (not too honest, just genuine), I am frightened that they'll regret it. I just want her to do the right thing for herself and her family, whatever that is. I'd hate to think that by going against my feelings to do 'the right thing' I'd helped her make a decision she'd come to regret.

YOu can't live her life and you can't prevent her making a mistake - if that is what it is. They are adults - repect their choices. It is the hardest thing to do, to let someone go ahead with what they think is right and you think is wrong - but in this case it's not your concern, it's not your lot to worry about and it's not your pregnancy that we're talking about.

That said in your shoes I would find this very hard too. I think it's very unlikely that she will ask you what you think - but I think it's very likely that she will be looking to you for warmth and care - so hug her and be normal. I know you don't feel it - but you can fake it. In terms of right and wrong - do you honestly think there is anything you can say that they haven't already thought of? I don't think so.

Just seen this NorktasticNinja (great name!)

What I say say might sound a little blunt andI do understand you feel very strongly about this but you absolutely must keep your opinion to yourself on this one.

She could have all sorts of deeply personal reasons for making this decision that you don't even know about.

At the end of the day, it is no-one's decision but hers and you can't force your morality on to her.

I think it is possible to say most things if they are said in the right way. You are entitled to your opinion. Anyone having a termination must know it is an emotional topic.

Is she considering YOUR feelings at all, I wonder? Maybe she does feel guilty and is aware of how you might feel as you are PG?

I am sure she will have had counselling pre the termination- it is mandatory isn't it?

I think it all dpeends on how close you are- if she was my close friend, then I would be honest- if she is just a work-mate of kinds, then I'd not say too much, but I would still stand by what I believed- is it the fact that they were careless that is upsetting you- or is it abortion per se?

I think everyone concerned needs to acknowledge this is an emotional situation, and there can be a fall-out. her actions have consequences and if people find fault with her, then that's life really.

"I think everyone concerned needs to acknowledge this is an emotional situation, and there can be a fall-out."

Actually, no. This is precisely why people who are not directly involved need to keep their opnions to themselves!

OP is absolutely entitled to be upset and have her own opnions/feelings on the matter but she mustn't express them to her friend.

I can imagine how hard this is for you, being pregnant right now. A friend's grandbaby died during its birth when I was pregnant with DS. We were very close at the time and so I was the one she turned to for comfort - a terrible situation for both of us because she was grieving and I, being pregnant, couldn't handle what had happened. But also couldn't bring myself to say "I can't help you right now".

What a mess. You can't or don't want to say how you truly feel, but if you keep your mouth shut everyone may sense how you feel anyway. Your lives are so intertwined that there is no getting away from the situation.

Sorry, I just realized I'm doing nothing but stating the obvious, so perhaps should just delete this, but wanted to say I have an idea how you feel and hoping it'll be ok. Apologies if this is completely unhelpful.

"OP is absolutely entitled to be upset and have her own opnions/feelings on the matter but she mustn't express them to her friend."

Unless asked for her opinion, perhaps?

Actully, she might not need that much support. If she is v clear in her decision she may just get on with it.

Stop yourself projecting or speculating how she might feel, how you feel, etc. There is only one issue - how SHE is feeling. if she is upset then forget the reason, just deal with the fact that your friend is upset, listen, and sympathise. She may be feeling all sorts of things - from relief, to anger at herself and partnmer for being so...impetuous, to sadness, to not much. Stop working yourself up about what might be and how one ought and should feel, and just sit back and listen if requied.

I don't man this to be as harsh / critical of you as it probably sounds, I don't mean to be critical of you, I just can't think of another way to say tit.

Hope it all sorts itself out with everyone secure in their decision making and friendships.

Oh, and SO many MNers have posted that they always thought they could NEVER consider a termination for themselves until they found themselves considering one.

I don't know Janos. I have been told, before the fact and apart for their parents (and all of MN) DP are the only ones. Our lives are totally intertwined and all four of us understand the gravity of our choices to do what we do together. In that sense I am very much directly involved.

When someone who's been through abortions takes the time to say to me 'i really wish someone had given me a good shake and asked if i had really thought through what i was doing' it shakes my conviction that I should keep my feelings entirely away from her on this one.

It's really tough, I want to do the right thing. I thought I knew what that was when I started this thread. I'm not so sure anymore.

Thanks everyone, for all your thoughts. It make's it harder to know what to do, but I think with your help I'll be able to do 'the right thing' (once I work out what it is).