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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Our 5th visit to the Stately Home

1000 replies

Nabster · 23/02/2009 10:59

Here we go again.

OP posts:
MuffinBaker · 26/04/2009 15:34

Hi

smithfield · 26/04/2009 16:12

Just been reading your other thread- This all seems still tied up with 'you know who'-
Do you still feel like you can start a-fresh tommorrow?
I do understand the feeling of being in a very very dark tunnel, unable to see the light at the end of it all and feeling that everything is pointless. I really do.
The only thing I can say is that things 'can' get better.

MuffinBaker · 26/04/2009 16:21

It totally is.

They are as mixed up as me and I have to be the one to stop it.

ActingNormal · 26/04/2009 18:04

Muffin, Please please don't hurt yourself, we don't want you to.

Is there anything really small you can do which you would feel some pleasure from for just a few moments to give your mind a little break as you are probably exhausted.

I sometimes think I wonder if it would be a happier, more contented, more relaxed life to just say "fuck it, I'm not going to think in any depth about anything, just do really shallow little things that seem a bit enjoyable and not care what anyone wants from me, what anyone thinks about me or even what I think of myself". Maybe it is impossible to be like this all the time but maybe it would be healthy to do it for 10 mins or an hour or a day every so often to give our brains a rest! Maybe the 'answers' would come to us on their own if our brains got a bit of rest.

I feel that if it is possible to get the tiniest bit of enjoyment out of anything, even something really stupid, then it is worth living.

Getting a bit of anger on your side might help as well - don't let the bastards who have made you feel crap in the first place and contributed to your depression beat you so much that you feel you have to die!

MuffinBaker · 26/04/2009 18:11

OK, here we go.

I have been in bed for 3 days and all day I have been looking forward to a bath. Small things count, right?

i HAVE REMINDED MYSELF THAT i CAN GET THINGS BACK TO HOW THEY WERE AND I WANT TO BE A gRanny so will not make myself die

you know who has been deleted from my phone

small steps but huge for me

MuffinBaker · 26/04/2009 18:14

The space to think is crucial and i don't get it

smithfield · 26/04/2009 18:23

Muffin- I think deleting 'you know who' from your phone is a HUGE step. Well done. I know how difficult this must be for you. You have proved a level of self belief just by doing that.

MuffinBaker · 26/04/2009 20:16

I don't fully get you mean about the self belief, but thank you.

He is away on holday for another week which will also help me.

smithfield · 26/04/2009 20:47

self belief-because you are taking control of the situation.

smithfield · 26/04/2009 20:58

Finding this site here quite helpful with regard to dealing with stress levels. Thought I'd share it in case somone else does too.

BopTheAlien · 26/04/2009 22:35

muffin/nabs, I totally agree with smithfield - deleting him from yr phone is a huge step, and I hope you can feel proud of yourself for doing it. Well done! It's a real commitment to moving on, even though it seems a small step.

oneplusone · 27/04/2009 12:01

Hello all. Again, haven't been able to log on for a few days and so many new posts, I feel overwhelmed.

Thank you to Bop and Rose for your comments. Bop I know what you are saying in your post, all of it, fri 22:47, and I appreciate your comments to me. It is very hard to find a good therapist and I agree that as I go along on this journey I have become much more aware as to the kind of therapist I need. My biggest problem is that I have so many restrictions on when I can see a therapist, it really narrows my options.

Muffin, I wish I could give you a hug. Hugs are good for the soul. From what I've read, your DH sounds lovely and supportive can you talk to him, just a little? I talk to DH now and then, not very much, he doesn't really understand, but it helps sometimes. But I know the feeling of wanting to die. Because every which way you turn there seems no way out of the nightmare and so the only option does seem to die. I can only speak for myself but the only thing that has kept me going at times are my DC's. In the sense that I know how utterly devasted they would be to lose their mother (not that I am a great mother by any means but I'm the only one they've got and I love them with all my heart) and I cannot leave them like that. But that really is my only reason for carrying on sometimes if i totally honest.

I met a friend at the weekend and she said some things to upset me, entirely unintentionally. I realise now it was partly my own fault in a way. I had let my guard down, because she has been very supportive and understanding about what I'm going through and she actually seemed to understand me. But the reality is she doesn't understand at all really and that was obvious by the sort of questions she was asking me. What I am annoyed about though is my own response to her questions.

She was asking me things like why were my sisters continuing to have a relationship with my parents and how far would I take cutting off my parents in the situation if one of my aunts/uncles died for example, would I go to the funeral knowing my parents would be there? And the worst thing she came up with was effectively trying to understand my mother's pov as to why she did nothing to stop my dad when he was abusive. She knows my mother was abused as well by my dad and she was trying to imply that my mother was unable to stand up for me because her own self confidence and self esteem had been destroyed by my dad as in the classic marital domestic violence, And perhaps to some extent I think my friend was right, my mother's self confidence had also been destroyed by my dad by the time he started abusing me. But did my friend then mean that I should forgive my mother because she was effectively too damaged herself by my dad to be able to stand up for me?

I know my friend was asking all these questions out of ignorance really, she has no experience of abuse herself, her parents are clearly very kind and loving, I have known this friend for around 25 years and so know her parents a little as well.

I felt like I was having to justify myself to her ie why I had cut off my parents and my sisters hadn't. I felt like she thought maybe I was lying/being oversensetive about what my parents had done/was exaggerating how bad it was etc simply because it is only me that has cut off my parents and not my sisters. I did tell her that me and my sisters were all treated very differently but I could see that she couldn't really understand how this could be. She has no knowledge or understanding of the concept of one child being the parent(s) poison container/scapegoat whilst the other children are not so obviously targetted etc.

And she also knows my mother quite well, or to be more accurate, she knows the public face of my mother. And I can see she simply cannot reconcile my story about my mother and the fact that I feel she has completely failed me as a mother, and her own perception of her based on her own interactions with my mother. I can completely understand her dilemma as i know how my mother appears in public. It is ironic really as she portrays herself in public as almost the exact opposite of who she is in private.

I have a dilemma now as to what to do about this friend. I know she means well and is certainly not out to hurt me in any way, but she simply doesn't understand the complexity of the situation. How can she? It has taken me nearly 3 years to understand and become aware of all the nuances and subtleties of it all. I don't want to stop seeing this friend and nor do I actually want to stop talking about the situation with her as, besides some of her upsetting questions, she has shown me some care and compassion. In email communication she seems to show a lot of understanding, it's only when we meet and speak face to face about it all that there are problems. Or perhaps when we are emailing if she does say/ask something upsetting I am much more able to respond as I would like whereas in face to face communication i find it virtually impossible to express my true feelings especially is she has upset me by a particular comment/question. When we were chatting at the weekend and she asked me some of the things that upset me, I remember almost physically 'pushing down' my true feelings of hurt and covering them up with a false happy/ok expression and answering her upsetting questions as if i wasn't in the least bit hurt or upset or bothered about what she had said/asked me.

And this is one of my biggest problems. That when somebody/anybody says something hurtful/upsetting to me in real time ie face to face or perhaps on the phone, i simply do not know how to respond in the moment. I seem to automatically cover up how I really feel and act and respond normally/as if i am not hurt or upset. But then later on I go away and at a later stage I realise how much I have in fact been hurt by the other person's words but I still cannot seem to feel the pain emotionally. Instead I find my eczema worsens or i notice some other physical symptom eg a new spot or something.

I need to learn how to respond to hurtful comments in the moment. But it is very hard as I don't actually even notice or realise that I have been hurt at the time. All I feel is a little tiny bit of 'discomfort' and that is my only sign to myself that my feelings have been hurt. It is always much later, when i am able to go away and have a bit of time to myself, that i start realising what things were said that hurt me and how i was hurt by them.

I remember reading quite recently about somebody else who seemed to be having a 'delayed reaction' to i think it was contact with her family. I wonder how common it is amongst us to have delayed reactions like this?

It doesn't take much thought on my part to work out how i came to develop this habit. I clearly remember many many many many occasions at home with my family when hurtful things would be said to me and I never ever showed I was hurt or responded with my true feelings. I would always always always hide the hurt/pain i must have felt at my dad's/mother's/sisters actions/words and respond usually with anger. I don't think I have ever, not even once, shown my true feelings of hurt to anybody in my family.

I have a feeling that this will be one of the hardest habits to break from my childhood. I wonder whether it is even possible to break it at all. Right now it seems impossible for me to consciously realise that I have been hurt and know how I have been hurt, and to feel and show my hurt, at the moment when it occurs as a result of another person's words/actions.

The only time I seem to be able to do that is when I have time to think about what the other person has said and to think about my own response and that only happens with emails or texts. In any 'real time' situation I'm hopeless, I just revert to my old childhood habitual ways.

ActingNormal · 27/04/2009 12:44

I've got really bad 'stitch'. I'm in physical pain after my second EMDR session, can you believe it! It all seemed quite normal and I felt like I was talking about normal things, just with the left and right hand buzzers in my hands. I was getting ready to leave and I realised I had stitch and felt winded. I only realised it hurt when Therapist asked me something and I could hardly speak. Then I felt a sudden feeling that I was about to cry but it was beyond the point of being able to control it. I feel so self conscious crying in front of him over what seems like nothing to me. I don't look at him, I cover my face, I fight to control myself and get a grip. I said "but I've only been talking about normal things" and he said "Have we?" in a surprised voice. Then he said "I know what we've been talking about" (even if you don't, sort of thing). I feel ill. I feel like I've injured myself (I haven't) by forcing myself not to express too much, like I've pushed something down into my stomach but pushed it to hard and too far.

IveLostThatMuffinFeeling · 27/04/2009 12:47

I feel that is similar to me.

My body reacts when I am hurting emotionally or mentally.

I guess that is why I feel like my body is falling to pieces right now.

I hope you are okay.

Someone I fell out with 3 years ago spoke to me today and when I drove off I nearly cried. I told her and she said it was all a long time ago. Nearly wept again.

PinkyMinxy · 27/04/2009 21:05

AN i gte migraine when I push things down. OPO I push things down all the time. I don't really know of a situation other than with DH where I have actually told someone they have upset me with their words or actions. How pathetic am I?

I feel paranoid at the moment. I feel that people are being friendly with my children to make up for what they see as a crap mummy who has spread herself too thin with too many small DC she can't cope with.

I feel that I am a complete let down to my children. I love them so much, and I am trying really hard but as ever my best is just not good enough. I am such a WASTE OF SPACE.

People talk to me and I cannot take any of it in I must come acroos as a fool.

Muffin I understand that calm feeling. When I am really low I calm myself down by planning how I will do it and how I will disappear, cease to exist, and how everyone will be much better off and all my family's problems will be solved because I am the root cause of them. It is ALL MY FAULT. All of it. And I don't know what to do.

I have 3 beautiful children and I am a failure. I know I have talents, I do. I am a very creative person and I can make and draw beautiful things, but I have no self belief. I know I will mess it all up. I feel sinful for enjoying making things, I feel like it s vanity. I feel arrogant now for saying that I can make beautiful things. How conceited am I?

I have been saying 'no' to my mother but she turns up anyway and I let her walk all over me. My sister will not stop calling/texting me and I don't know what to do. I have been saying no because my therrapist says I should. I am doing my homework- good girl tick tick but I have no idea what to do next becuase I can't actually tell anyone how I feel.

BopTheAlien · 27/04/2009 22:39

OPO I totally know what you mean about shutting down when people say/do hurtful things, and only realising later. I had a dream once, years ago, before I started going into things, and in the dream there was a girl who had a wooden mask covering her face, and everyone was laughing at her because she looked so weird - but "I" could see her eyes behind the mask and see that she was real and she was feeling everything, everything you couldn't see because of the mask, and I so desperately wanted to protect her, to tell everyone she was real and not a wooden puppet. It was clear to me even at the time that the girl in the mask was me, and that this was a very strong message, although I really didn't know what to do with that information at the time. But yes - a lifetime of suppressing feelings, of having to bite back tears, pretend that the cruel comments and hurtful jibes don't hurt, don't get to you, pretend that having to live as a pariah, a freak that everyone laughs at, someone who just isn't normal, doesn't have a normal life - pretend it's all OK - WHEN IT'S NOT. That pretending it's ok when it's not, that's a killer. That's what makes me still hate my mother. (Pinky, it's not just you!!) How do you change that? It takes years and years for this stuff to get fixed in place; how can we reverse it in a short space of time? Don't think we can, sadly.

When I bump into someone I've had problems with in the past, I am sometimes paralysed with the locked in emotion, so that I can't even think or speak, my head just goes into whiteout mode, heart pounding, helplessness. And I know that even though this person is triggering it, the real feelings always, always come back to my family.

I always fear that people will think I am making it up/exaggerating when i try and talk about childhood/family relationships now. Sometimes people have as good as said it was no big deal, and i still try and talk to that person, against all my conscious will and intention. I think it comes from the denial inside me - when I really and truly get it, deep, deep down inside, I think the people around me will get it too. Or there will be different people around me. I am actually seeing a slight difference in the way people respond to stuff I say about my family, a little bit more understanding than I used to get, and i think the experience of being on here and being understood is helping like that, also makes me not so desperate to have other people in RL understand.

Pinky - can i say I'm good at stuff too?? Would it make you feel any less arrogant or conceited to know there are other people who think they're talented too? Cause I know, theoretically, I am talented in a few areas, and have had some objective confirmation of this - but i know what you mean about it being really hard to say so.

FabulousBakerGirl · 28/04/2009 08:06

Just thinking out loud -

Can't get this guy out of my head.

Can't work out what it is I feel for him.

Makes it worse when I think and talk about him.

How to do the first without the second?

FabulousBakerGirl · 28/04/2009 08:07

It's NAB/Muffin btw.

BopTheAlien · 28/04/2009 13:45

muffin - would it be of any help at all if you believed that all the feelings you have for him are actually related directly to your parents/family? ie that it's not really about him, it's about them, so if you can deal with the issues around them, he will stop being an issue. Cause from the little I know of your back story, your parents weren't emotionally available - is that right? or maybe even physically available? - so that programmes you to feel massively connected to someone else who isn't available, because that's what you know from earliest times, so it feels normal. It even feels safe in a weird way so that maybe even the thought of not having him in your life is scary and painful, even though you have so many reasons for wanting it to be over.

Anyway, that's my take on it - i do firmly believe everything goes back to parents/childhood, but of course I don't expect everyone slse to feel the same, but if it helps...

PinkyMinxy · 28/04/2009 14:07

Bop has a very good point there, Nab. I have come to the realisation that I'm like a badly imprinted animal when it comes to friends. What I'm really looking for is someone to fulfill the gaps left by my mother's awful parenting. The feeling of rejection and abandonment are all there, just like they were when I was a child. I also panic if my friends seem to be spending time with other people, or say they are too busy to see me.I think they don't want me around.

I have been feeling so low this last week or so, but actually I can also see how I am starting to process some of this stuff. So I am still feeling all the same things, but I can see now a bit better where they come from- as Bop says- they are from my childhood.

I am very early in this process, Nab. It is hard and verry painful, but it needs to be done.

Had a very strange thing last night. I was in quite a bad way when DH came home. We had a chat, but at one point he looked at me a certain way (not anything weird,just a glance) but for a split second I didn't see him, I saw someone else- my Father (?) and I nearly jumped out of my skin in terror. It was something from way way back- that was how it felt, anyway.

PinkyMinxy · 28/04/2009 14:10

And my goodness I have repeated the toxic relationships- my mother, my sister, so many times. The recent one- a 'mummy friend' is so much like my mother it is scary, and I felt beholden to her in the same way as I do my mother. Truly strange.

oneplusone · 28/04/2009 14:24

PM, I can relate to how you are feeling. I feel the same although I try and ignore it a lot of the time. I feel so useless. I dropped off DS at nursery today and felt so awful. I'm not even working. I just need time alone to deal with my 'stuff'. But it just seems endless and my DC's and DH are having to pay the price for my parent's cr*p, not just me, and that makes me feel so much worse. By getting married and having DC's I have dragged more people into my mess and it makes me feel so bad. But the people who caused it all, my parents, don't feel any guilt at all. They, I'm sure feel aggrieved and hard done by, they think I owe them something because they think did so much for me when i was growing up. They have completely deleted all the abuse and neglect and deprivation from their memories and choose to remember only the good moments. Even the good moments did not really involve me, they may have had genuinely good moments with my sisters, and their memories wrongly inlcude me in those moments when i was never involved at all in anything good, only the bad stuff.

I am so fed up of all of this. I am fed up of the physical symptoms I am suffering because of my emotional stuff. My eczema always gets worse when repressed feelings are triggered because I cannot experience those feelings emotionally as I am sure the emotional pathways in my brain for processing such feelings were blocked/damaged in childhood. I thought I had made some progress in ublocking those pathways as I seemed to be able to feel more and more emotions but I'm not so sure now. The experience with my friend at the weekend has shown me that I still can't process my painful feelings properly ie feel my pain or even anger emotionally, my feelings still seem to be finding a 'release' via my body. But it is a downward spiral as my physical symptoms get me down in themselves and I feel like I am never going to get better.

It doesn't help that DH said some hurtful things to me a while ago, and I realise I am now having my usual delayed reaction to what he said. He said that if he met me now, in the physical, emotional and mental state I am currently in, he wouldn't have found me attractive and wouldn't be interested in me. I feel so hurt by him. Rationally I know he is just stating the cold hard truth, the fact is if anyone met me today, they would probably run a mile. But I just don't need to hear that sort of thing from DH. I am painfully aware of it myself anyway. He says he said it to me as he felt he was being pushed to his limits by me, that I took him for granted when he did so much for me and by wanting still more from him.

He is right in that I think I have been taking him for granted and I have been 'taking' from him for the last few years as opposed to 'giving' him anything of myself. That is of course because I have had nothing left in me to give after I have cared for the children and also spent time and energy on sorting my own issues out. On a purely rational and logical level I know he is right and he is normally very kind and caring and considerate, he would normally never say anything harsh intentionally to hurt me, but I do still feel very hurt inside by what he said. I feel like giving up to be honest. I am clearly failing in all areas, as a wife, mother and individual.

I find it so hard to make friends. I lack confidence anyway because of my looks and I lack confidence in being able to say the right things to people and I am so used to being ignored or not respected that often i just say nothing as i feel nobody wants to listen to me anway.

I feel so useless. I see other mums doing so many activities with their children. I haven't even managed to teach DD to ride a bike, or taken her swimming or lots of other things. I can just about manage to feed and do the bare essentials for my DC's at times anything else is too much for me. One of the mums in DD's class is head of the PSA at school and I know loads of the other mums do loads to help out at school. But I can't do it, any time I have without the DC's I feel I need to spend sorting out my issues. Perhaps I would be better off just getting on with other things. But I feel I can't commit to anything in case i have a really 'bad day' and on those days I feel it would kill me to have to go and help out in the school or something. I just don't know what to do for the best anymore. Perhaps the fact I have no counsellor at the moment is causing more of a problem than I realised. But i haven't got the energy to search for a new one. It all feels hopeless, like i am never going to get better and reach a point where i can just get on with my life and put all this stuff in a tiny box in my mind where it doesn't get in the way of everything.

I am really sorry for such a long boring ramble. I don't even really feel i have said what i wanted to either. What is wrong with me?

oneplusone · 28/04/2009 14:47

Bop, I agree with you that everything somehow goes back to childhood. It's trying to figure out how it does that can be tricky at times.

And like you said having to pretend that everything is ok when it's not is a killer. In an almost literal sense, not just metaphorically.

Today I can't seem to shake off the horrible feeling it gives me to leave DS at nursery. Even though he is generally settled and happy there yesterday he was crying and clinging to me when i left him and although was apparently fine and happily playing within a minute of me leaving, I felt so bad about leaving him. He's so young, not yet 3 and I know he just needs and wants to be with his mummy all the time. I know leaving him at nursery is the only way I get a bit of a break, and that reason doesn't make me feel bad as I am much better with the DC's if I have regular breaks, just like in any job I suppose, but DS is at nursery for longer than I need to just have a break, he is there so i can spend time sorting out my issues and it is that reason that makes me feel so awful and guilty.

I feel he must think I don't care about him because I am able to leave him and walk away when he is crying and clinging to me. His face yesterday is ingrained in my mind, his eyes were pleading with me not to go and leave him there but I did. I walked away from him when he wanted me and was crying for me not to leave him. What sort of mother does that? I feel like I am no better than my own mother. She walked away many a time when i needed her, I don't remember crying when being left at nursery like DS, but there are so many many times when I have needed her and she has literally turned her back on me and walked away. Perhaps that's why leaving DS at nursery is getting to me so much, it may be triggering feelings for me of being abandoned by my mother whilst pleading for to stay with me, not to leave me. The more i think about it the more this seems right. Many times when I am upset I have this voice in my head crying "I want my mummy" and I know that voice is me as a child, and I think I have been saying and crying "I want my mummy" all my life, but always only in my head, never out loud, and perhaps only subconsciously as well. But that one line sums up how I have felt all my life, that "I want my mummy" to look after me and take care of me and take away my fears and worries and anxieties and cuddle me and be there, by my side when i need her. But that is what I have never had, she has never been there for me, and I can feel so acutely the gaping hole inside me where she should have been all my life.

I am sorry for going on so much, there is no need to respond, just writing things on here is so helpful for me.

FabulousBakerGirl · 28/04/2009 16:04

I am too tired to do anything anymore.

Weirdly I have a side stitch like pain too now.

ActingNormal · 28/04/2009 17:17

When I wrote about stomach pains because of suppressing feelings in my last post I wasn't writing it in reply to anyone but coincidentally other people are writing about suppressing their feelings and trying to act normal at the moment - it's amazing that we are all so similar I thought, then I thought, no it's not amazing it is a horrible sad thing that people treated badly during childhood have similar 'symptoms' as adults. This is what makes me believe you all, because you describe things that seem so familiar to how I feel and nobody could guess at these feelings and describe them so well if they didn't feel it the same. Maybe I should also believe myself then (take my own feelings seriously). Little things keep making me doubt myself again - about whether I am making a big deal out of nothing much.

Pinky, it was NOT your fault and you are NOT a waste of space. You didn't start anything bad - you were a CHILD. The adults are the responsible ones (or supposed to be) not the child! The parents are supposed to teach the child how to be a good and happy person into adulthood. If you feel you can't cope with life it is because they didn't teach you how. It is not your fault. You take care of your children's practical needs and you feel your love for them. I believe that if you feel it strongly, it will come accross in your body language, mannerisms, voice, hormonal signals etc. You don't have to do a million 'educational' activities with them or never get cross with them to be an ok parent. If you take care of their practical needs for survival and health and they know that you love them that is enough.

It is really good that you have talents and I think it is great if you let people see them and I think even showing off is good, we should celebrate to show our appreciation of what nature has given us. It is only not fine if you are trying to make other people feel inferior to you (which you are not). What natural parent would want their children to hide their talents! They should be proud and happy for you. They should want you to do the things you love and get pleasure from what you are good at as much as possible and live the happiest life you can. I'm sure this is what you would want for your own children and you deserve it just as much as them.

You haven't yet been able to stop your mother and sister doing things you don't want, you are still developing your ways of doing it. This doesn't make you a failure. They are the bad ones for doing what they are doing. It might just take longer than you had thought to find a good way of doing things that suits you and works for you.

Bop, you are one of the people whose words are so familiar to how I feel that I would never not believe you and never think you were exaggerating. Your words, "Pretending it's ok when it's NOT" really hit me. I know it is different words for "acting normal" but your words make it clearer to me how bad it is to have to do this. Bop and OnePlusOne, If we controlled ourselves so strongly as children and did it for a long time it is not surprising if now, our first instinctive and inbuilt reaction to upset is to pretend everything is ok, and then, when we need to express our feelings, we have been locking up our 'expressive muscles' for so long that we don't know how to unlock them, they have 'siezed up' from lack of use! It is not our faults.

Muffin, what Bop said really seems like it makes sense, do you think so?

Pinky, it sounds like you are starting to be aware of your past feelings being triggered by present events. Being drawn to the 'wrong' types of people, I wonder if it is like the brain's way of recreating a past situation so that you can fix it in the present and feel some satisfaction from that.

OnePlusOne, about your parents attitude that you owe them something for what they did for you - you don't owe them anything. A child doesn't ask to be born or decide who will be its parents. The parents make a decision to bring a baby into the world and they choose the job of looking after it. Their 'payment' should be the privilege of sharing your life with a child.

I went through this thing you describe with your DH where he just couldn't take any more of my stuff impacting on him. Like you, I had nothing much left for him after putting all my energies into the children, the house and my problems. There just wasn't much 'in it' for him anymore. He felt unloved and lonely because I didn't focus on him at all. I didn't treat him as though he was special, just expected him to listen to all my negativity and help me with things. He had been living with my stuff for years and years. I made a decision to give him a break from it and not talk to him very much about any of it anymore. I use Therapist and women friends for that instead. I redefined our relationship in my mind and decided it was for having someone as pleasant company and for having the occasional laugh with and someone to be 'lovey' towards and receive affection from. I know this is quite shallow, but it is simple and relaxing and nice. The things I wanted him to make me feel - special and wanted, I made more effort to make him feel, and the more I did it, the more he did it back. It seems like he has felt better and better and then I've started to talk a bit more about my stuff to him again but being careful not to overload him and reminding myself I have other people for that. I think things are mostly ok with us now.

Like Pinky, you seem to be really feeling crap about your abilities as a mother at the moment. This is my 'pet subject' at the moment, probably because I''ve just bought that book, "The Idle Parent". You don't have to do all these 'commendable' [sneer] and 'self righteous-making' bloody goody goody, up their own arses, poncey, Miss Perfect, 'Oh don't I work so hard' activities to be a good mother! If you keep them fed and watered, clothed, warm enough, sheltered enough, get their jabs done at the doctors etc and feel your love for them and focus on enjoying being with them, then your loving feelings will show and I really think this is enough! Think about when you pay loads of money to take your kids on a 'proper' trip out to a proper place and they don't seem as 'grateful' or happy as you imagined they would be, then you watch how happy and fulfilled they seem playing with a stick and some mud in the back garden! They would probably be much happier with their day if they just messed about with their stick and their mud and you paid some attention to what they were doing and commented on it in an interested way every now and then. Simple things are best I reckon!

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