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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Our 5th visit to the Stately Home

1000 replies

Nabster · 23/02/2009 10:59

Here we go again.

OP posts:
Sakura · 23/04/2009 09:14

Yes, it gets easier. I feel like the selfishest person on here now because I just write whatever I like . Everytime I see a good point I think "Oh, thats so true" and I want to reply to it, but get so overwhelmed by the thread that I just end up turning the computer off and not replying to anyone.

roseability · 23/04/2009 09:15

BoptheAlien - please don't worry about responding to everyone's posts or saying the wrong thing. I think when we feel anxious we do feel like this. This thread is about getting things off your chest and responding to things that trigger you. I have never been offended when my posts aren't directly responded to. There is so much to discuss on here, that it is impossible to respond to all things. We have children to look after and busy lives

As long as you feel the thread is helping you, that is the main thing. It has struck me on this thread how giving everyone is. How everyone thinks about other posters and considers their feelings. I wonder if this lovely personality trait is why you have become easy targets for abusive and manipulative parents?

PinkyMinxy · 23/04/2009 13:05

Bop I know what you mean. I feel as though I don't resond enough to people, generally, not just on here.

But you shouldn't worry. Your posts are very insightful and hopefully they are helping you.

I feel really crummy at the moment.

oneplusone · 23/04/2009 13:28

Bop don't worry about not responding to everyone; for me just reading about other people's experiences is so helpful even if my own posts are not directly responded to every time. And I find it so helpful and theraputic to offload and get things off my chest on here, I don't mind at all if others don't/can't respond.

Have to go now, DS is calling.

ActingNormal · 23/04/2009 16:32

I agree with OnePlusOne re the responding thing. Some people respond a lot and some don't and both are ok. I respond quite a lot but it is as much to help myself as to help anyone else. Things other people say help me to look at things from different angles and when I'm replying loads of my own stuff seems to become clearer as I write. If I just think about my own stuff on its own I often don't know which bit to start with. When I'm responding to things others have said I have some kind of structure for my gibber writing.

ActingNormal · 23/04/2009 17:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

roseability · 23/04/2009 21:27

Bop - It is very sad that your niece may be losing touch with you. When you have a close relationship with someone you want to hold onto it, especially if you don't have good relationships with the rest of the family. All you can do is stay availiable to her as best you can.

As words of encouragement, in the past I have not had a close relationship with my aunty, due in part to my parents trying to poison me against her. She is my birth mother's sister and adoptive mother's daughter. She has also had a strained relationship with my adoptive mother. They didn't speak for 6 months and my mother did the whole 'how could she do that?'. My father (her step father) has said some awful things, even accusing her of trying to poison him!

I took all this in growing up. However now that I have matured and realised how toxic my parents are, I am building bridges with her. I realise this has been tough for her as well and we talk openly about my parents for the first time. She is coming up to visit with her father (my grandfather, who I have never met) when my baby is born.

I really don't want to waffle about myself again but I suppose I am in a similar position to your niece and I have seen the light and want to be closer to my aunt. I also think she saw me as a potential substitute daughter as she only has sons. Your niece will see that you are a nice person and want to have a relationship with you I am sure.

AN - Your way of breaking down your issues is really helpful and I am going to do this. I have also ordered a book about the adopted child, so will let you know what it is like

PM - I am sorry to hear you are having a bad patch. It is horrible when all these issues just overwhelm you.

BopTheAlien · 23/04/2009 23:42

Thanks everyone so much for your lovely replies to my question/anxieties about posting. It's really helped. Sakura, I shall aim for your level of selfishness ! actually, fwiw, in therapy we have often had this discussion about how selfishness is actually a positive trait in many ways - and that those of us who have been used as doormats by others can actually benefit a lot from being more selfish, and that it's a positive survival tool and a sign of healthy self esteem, in the right context... It's the ones who hurt us and used us for their own ends who need to be less selfish, not us the victims.

Rose, you could be right about the personality trait thing - maybe it's also that the ones who care about others are the ones most likely to try and heal and be on a thread like this? Because lots of abusers are themselves victims and targets to start with, but they identify with the abuser to the point of becoming one themselves when they grow up, and completely suppress whatever caring side they have. Anyway, thank you for your comments about my niece and your own situation and I hope your aunt can become an ally for you. With my niece, it does hurt because in the past, I've been the one to defend her and my nephew when they were being unfairly picked on and hurt by their own parents (my bro and sil), I was the one who told them it wasn't their fault when they were being yelled at and treated like burglars in their own home; my niece used to be on the phone to me for up to 2 hours at a time, talking about bullying at school, boyfriend stuff, all sorts - and I was almost providing free counselling in a way, and always walking a tightrope between trying to bolster her self esteem and trying to help her see her issues weren't her fault, but never actually pointing the finger at her mum and dad, even though I really wanted to! - cause obviuosly that's not helpful when you're still living at home and can't do a damn thing about them. So it was all often very difficult. But I wanted them to have an auntie who was a real auntie, not just a biological one like all the ones I had.

Anyway, que sera, sera.

Pinky, what happened this week with your therapist must have really set you back - our therapists are replacement parent figures and authority figures, so if/when they let us down in any way it triggers all the abandonment and unsafety as if we were children being let down by our parenst again, so it's not surprising you're feeling so rough. And when you anticipate a session and then don't get it - or only half (how much can you do with half a session?) that kind of leaves you hanging. It would trigger "I don't matter" and being ignored, I think, and I know for me those things are really, really painful. If this is the case for you, maybe you can discuss the feelings you've been having with yr therapist next session?

One more thing - saw osteopath again today, as back has flared up again recently, and she said that with me she always works on connecting the top and bottom halves of me, because it's as if there's a line round my middle and the two parts are completely separated. And that made so much sense. I have a lot of pain in my lower back and it's in that whole area that I store a lot of the damage - and that area is the base, the centre, all the sense of support. As well as the feminine and reproductive centre. No wonder I've often felt so completely incapacitated.

PinkyMinxy · 24/04/2009 00:11

I have been trying to write a coherent post for a few days now.

Lists. I love lists.They are good. Great idea AN.
Re births, don't know if this ir relevent or helpful, but here are my experiences:

I had crash section with DS. Felt I had failed him horribly. But was blissfully happy after he arrived.

Had hyperemesis with both him and DD1. Especially bad with DD1. Got quite depressed. Parents really got their feet under the table at this point, though they only did the bare minimum to help. Some of my father's behaviour with DS I found questionable.

Had DD1 by elcs, very calm. Cried more for trauma of DS's birth when I went to theatre.

Wanted VBA2C for DD2. Had problems with her growth and not emptying her bladder, so had emcs. Mother was quite horrid through this Pg, and was awful before and after birth, then pulled a perfect granny/mother routine in front of her friend. Bizarre.

I cried and cried during DD2's delivery. Felt very low at this point. Very pressured into early elcs, mainly because of pressure from my parenbts.

Feel like I have not given birth to any of my children. I feel like a complete failure in this regard.

Also lost my job with main client whilst PG with DD1 due largely to hyperemesis.

My mother just turned up at my house today, completely unannounced.

Clearly to show me that she can.

But she can't get in anymore because we changed the locks.

Regarding my therapist changing my days and double booking me this week. I feel like I should cancel next week and not see him again. But I know this is my defensive reaction- my fear of rejection. He doesn't want me to come back- he is trying to send me this message so I will prempt the rejection in the hope of not getting to badly hurt. I do this all the time. But logically this cannot be right. I should take it at face value as a mistake. But I am struggling with this.

When I was a child and saw psychiatrist, at behest of my teacher, I have always felt that he abandonned me before I had chance to trust him. It was a chance of being saved from my situation, but he neverr got through my defensive barriers, and he did not see through my parents. He is another adult that I feel I was let down by as a child. And again I was left feeling that it was all my fault.

PinkyMinxy · 24/04/2009 09:49

Psychologist,not psychiatrist. Ws a bit drunk last nigth. Sorry.

smithfield · 24/04/2009 11:19

pinky - You said;

Regarding my therapist changing my days and double booking me this week. I feel like I should cancel next week and not see him again. But I know this is my defensive reaction- my fear of rejection. He doesn't want me to come back- he is trying to send me this message so I will prempt the rejection in the hope of not getting to badly hurt. I do this all the time. But logically this cannot be right. I should take it at face value as a mistake. But I am struggling with this.

At least you are recognising your reaction and trying to change your response. Trust is a huge issue for all of us on here because our parents failed us so miserably.
Go and see your therapist next week and talk over how the whole incident made you feel, with the mix up and all.
It will take a leap of faith to do this but a leap of faith is required when 'learning' to build your trust in human kind again.

bop - I just wanted to eho what everyone else said on here. For me I find it strangely therapeutic writing responses to others. Maybe in some way I am tricking myself into writing about myself, because as you saw from my post to you I was working through things for myself by writing it.
I relate about the anxiety about jumping in, and find it extremely difficult to download without responding, but I am planning to work on that...so maybe we should take the plunge together
I also empathise with regard to your neice, I had a very similar experience with my sister. There is a ten year gap between us and I do hope one day if and when she has children we will be able to re-connect somehow. But I accept she is her own person and I cant 'make' her have a relationship with me. it still hurts but I have to keep telling myself; this is not my fault or because I am intrinsically bad or deserve such treatment. In the past I would have told myself these things because my self belief was such that I looked consantly for the negative to back up my own feeling toward myself. I dont want to think like this anymore. As Ally used to say I am only 50% responsible for any relationship.

AN- Feel bad for triggering you with my post. I dont like to think of upsetting someone with my own memories, especially as I know how dreadful it al was for yiou and how anxious it must make you.
I felt terrible after writing it actually. It was done with a sense of fun (i think), the wrestling that is. I just took it at the time as a bit of harmless wrestling with dad, but i realise now that perhaps it 'was' more about him overpowering me and getting me to submit to him in some way.
Would you think it appropriate with your DH and dd, if she was older? I was 8/9.
I think the reason I felt terrible for writing it is that I still have strong feelings for my father. I still feel a lot of love toward him, so I felt very guilty and disloyal for writing it. Sadly I haven't had those feelings toward my mother for many, many years. Any feelings I have for her have always been bound up in guilt, anger, resentment, frustration...never love. How awful is that. But my dad, that's a different story. I have and still do feel a lot of love for him. That is why it is harder to let go. Much harder to detach.

smithfield · 24/04/2009 11:59

I also wanted to add that it is now Friday (my day off work) and today is the first day my shoulders have not been up around my ears.
So clearly this is more about my current situation.
Something you wrote Bop really helped. You talked about people supressing their caring side.
A while back I wrote about a period in my life where I felt I had changed and become harder.
I think part of the issue for me currently is that for an awful long time I have suppressed a huge part of myself. I've read about people cutting off certain aspects of their personality as part of a need to survive.
I belive that there is a side to me that is very caring and nurturing but that I began to supress that side of my nature once I began to head toward my teens.
As I reached that age my mother got worse toward me and I went to a terrible school where it was more about survival than anything else. I was bullied constantly.
So I began to develop a hardened shell, to toughen up. I supressed my caring side because I believed that side of me left me an open target for abuse. I also began to act differently, to change into soemone else.

I related a lot to your post oneplusone, where you talked about being always on the defensive, I think this is me also. I defend myself because I too was always being attacked. I never knew when the next hit was coming or where it was coming from.
Often with my mother even as an adult it would catch me by surprise and I would feel shocked and then angry at letting my defences down and not being ready for it.
I remember seeing a picture a while back it was of me holding my brother when he was a baby. I looked so caring and happy. That is what struck me about the picture I looked very loving.
I dont see myself as loving, although I am loving mother. I wouldnt say I am a loving wife. I 'can' be a loving friend but I find it hard to trust people and let them in.
So how does this link with work and the stress it is causing me?

I think I chose a job/career that was fitting to what I had became as a result of my upbringing and nothing to do with my 'authentic' self.
I feel there is so much competing and hardness around work and that is applauded, but that is not my 'natural' instinct. Yet this behaviour is applauded and I hate it.

What I desire more than anything is to be true to myself now, my authentic self that is.

I dont want to be seeking my parents approval subconciously anymore.

I dont want to be doing a job because it gives me money or status, because that is adhering to my parents needs, not to mine.

Supressing my needs to keep up a pretence, or to keep people impressed by me is what is triggering such strong emotions atm, because while I still tolerate all of this it is like sending myself the same message as my parents did. It is NOT OK to just be who I am.
Another issue at the base of all of this though is my fear of getting things wrong. Of screwing up.

My FEAR of making a mistake is so strong that despite realising all of this now, Im also AFRAID to set the wheels in motions to change anything. I feel paralysed by fear of making a wrong decision.

I do believe my children have been responsible for pulling this side of me back to the surface. I am so grateful to them for that.

I think that is why more than anything I would love to be at home with them. It feels so good just to admit that, instead of pretending to be something I am not. Being a mum is without a shadow of a doubt the most rewarding job I could ever have had. I feel blessed and privelaged that I got to play the role of 'mum' at all.

oneplusone · 24/04/2009 12:12

Hi all, have not been able to log on for longer than 30 secs in the last few days. I'm glad others have mentioned feeling overwhelmed by all the new posts and being unable to respond as you would like, I feel like that quite a lot. I feel bad for not responding to everyone, especially as so many points that are made i feel i can relate to and post about. But i just feel paralysed sometimes, i can read but not post or respond.

PM I just wanted to say 'Bravo!' for changing your locks! What a simple but brilliant thing to do. Well done.

I can relate to the thing about feeling like your psychotherapist is 'trying to get rid of you'. I feel exactly the same way about mine especially since she suddenly announed one day that she could no longer see me on the day i had been going for the past year. She did apologise but didn't seem overly concerned that unless i could re-arrange my childcare i would not be able to see her anymore. I think she doesn't feel a connection with me, she often seems to forget what i've told her and i feel she just doesn't 'get' me and my story. I haven't seen her since she changed the day, even though i could have as she has another slot free when i do have childcare. But something is holding me back and i guess i should trust my gut feeling. I suppose i have known she was not quite right for me for ages but i have not had the energy to try and find a new therapist and to try and tell them my story all over again. I have been managing by myself til now but I do feel i still need to see a therapist, if only every few weeks rather than once a week.

I have had an emotional couple of days. All the issues to do with my MIL are still swirling around. I had a talk with DH about it all, this time it was a proper talk not a row. He said that although he agreed his mother had greatly overstepped the mark and had gone about things in a terrible way, ultimately all she had been doing was looking out for him as she could see, even without him saying anything to her, that he was unhappy and things were not right at home. This is all going back a number of years, after DD was born, not now as apparently now, according to DH, MIL now feels she has no real concerns about the way I am looking after DH.

It was not news to me that behind MIL's vileness to me was her concern for her son, DH, but I felt so upset whilst we were talking about it; all I could think in my mind was "Where were my parents throughout all this time?", "Why didn't they notice, like DH's mother did, that I was not happy?", "Why didn't they speak to DH, like his mother spoke to me, because they were concerned about me?"

But then i know the answers to my questions already, why would my parents suddenly now change the habit of a lifetime? They had never ever been concerned about me, not since I was a child, so why on earth would they suddenly develop concern for me now that i was an adult? And they would certainly never notice that i was unhappy like DH's mother noticed about him even without him saying anything to her; my parents didn't want to know even when i specifically told them i was unhappy about something so they would hardly come running to my aid when i hadn't mentioned anything to them.

The bottom line is neither of my parents could care less whether i was unhappy or not, perhaps my dad had a little bit of concern for me once or twice, years after he had largely recovered from his mental breakdown, but by then he had so alienated and distanced me that i was completely unable and unwilling to open up to him and talk to him because of his past betrayal and pain he had caused me over the years without any sort of apology or attempts at reparation on his part. My mother had never even once shown any concern for me. Even once i remember i was crying alone in my bedroom one night, from the sheer lonliness and exclusion i felt within the family and she heard me and came into my room and asked what was wrong, i told her i felt like an outsider, like i wasn't part of the family and she completely dismissed my feelings and told me i was upset about something else which simply was not the case. If she had taken my feelings seriously and allowed me to talk about them and really listened to me, things could have been so different for me. But I remember the look on her face when i told her how i felt excluded and lonely, it was almost as if she knew all along that was how i felt but she didn't want to change things because it was in her interests to keep the status quo. Because it meant that i would continue to be the scapegoat for my dad and i would continue to be his target for when he needed to vent his anger, i would be his target instead of my mother. And also if I was suddenly to be included as part of the family it would probably mean she would be excluded, or that she would then take up my position within the family and she would then be the scapegoat and punchbag for my dad. I would take my mother's place in the little group she had formed with my sisters, from which i had always been excluded and she was unwilling to allow that to happen as she would be the loser.

She would rather one of her own children should suffer than herself. That's what it boils down to. She exploited the power she had, as she did have the power to change things within the family so i wasn't excluded and so that i was included within the group that included my sisters and her but she knew that if me and my sisters became a unit, she would then be forced back into a role as target for my dad and she was unwilling to do that. I remember when i was very young, before my dad's breakdown, that he used to argue a lot with my mother, but was always nice to me and after his breakdown he started targetting me as well and to a certain extent i think he started attacking me in place of attacking my mother, possibly because i was 'triggering' him although he totally unaware he was being triggered, and also by that time and having been married for 12 years, my mother had learnt to keep her mouth shut in the face of my dad's attacks. So he got more 'satisfaction' out of attacking me as i would not simply keep my mouth shut, i would verbally fight back, and my dad got whatever it was he wanted out of the attack. So of course it was in my mother's interests to keep me in my place as the target because it simultaneously meant she was no longer the target. So she and my sisters got away relatively easily with only some stray bullets heading their way, whilst i bore the brunt, taking most of the flak and not only defending myself but also defending my mother and sisters a lot of the time.

When i fully realise just how much my mother used me to protect herself and how she never once stood up for me, whether against my dad or MIL or anyone else, how she was so completely not interested in any problems i told her about and blatantly ignored problems that i didn't tell her about but which to even a complete stranger would have been blindingly obvious, i feel furious all over again. I thought i had by now 'purged' a lot of the rage i felt towards my mother, but it seems like there is still more anger buried inside me and i only realise it and feel it when i really sit down and think very deeply about just how selfish and cowardly my mother has been and how she callously put her own needs and feelings before that of me as a 10 year old little girl.

To those of you who have expressed a desire to seek revenge on their parents I can only say I absolutely 100% know how you feel. And if only i could get away with it without any consequences, I would get in my car, take my baseball bat and go and beat my mother into the ground and leave her snivelling on the street for people to step over. However much I dislike my MIL, I do have some respect for her as a mother, she has stuck her neck out for her son and tried to look out for him and protect him and for that I simply cannot fault her. Whereas my own mother has never once done anything like that and yet she seems to think she deserves gratitude and loyalty and respect from me for supposedly looking after me as a child. She did not look after me. She fed me to the lions. And for that I most certainly am not grateful.

And the way she has got my sisters and most of her family feeling sorry her her right now make me so mad. I really thought i was 'over' feeling angry towards her but right now I feel it all again, as strongly as ever. I just wish I could act on my feelings towards her, but unfortunately society will not allow me to go and kill my mother as she deserves.

And I am very sorry for the extreme nature of my post, i don't want to upset anyone on here. I didn't even realise I was feeling so angry until i started posting. I feel better now for having got it all out. Thanks to anyone for reading this far.

oneplusone · 24/04/2009 12:36

Sorry a few more things that your posts have triggered. Somebody mentioned (Bop possibly)about suddenly realising they were anxious all the time. I think I am too and I have only just realised it. I did realise a very high level of anxiety at certain situations but i have only just realised that i am anxious, a lower level all the time. I think being anxious may be the opposite of being 'playful' and relaxed. I have noticed that other parents are able to connect with their children at their level, ie join in unreservedly with their silly games, pulling faces, and just being funny and playful as children are. I find this so difficult if not impossible. When my children are being funny and silly eg. when i am making the beds they love playing in the sheets and me putting the sheets over them and rolling round with the pillows etc and I feel I want to let myself go completely and giggle and play with them but I just can't seem to do it. There is always something stopping me. Sometimes I manage to awkwardly join in a bit and i can see how much they love it when i do, but i always feel a part of me is holding back, perhaps my anxious side.

I read somewhere that you know therapy has been successful when you are able 'to play again'. I can't remember where i read that, or anything else that was written but i just remember reading that line and knowing the truth in it. I think being able to let yourself go and be completely childlike again, to totally connect with your children at their level, means you have let go of your childhood ghosts and cast off your constant anxiety and purged all your anger, meaning you can just be you, you can completely let go of all your fears and inhibitions and giggle and laugh and play just like a child. I think i stopped being a child when i was 10. I became wary and anxious and inhibited and hid my true self and my true feelings; i had to suppress my childlike self and become more adult as i had to try and survive in a hostile adult environment and to stay as a child in that atmosphere would have meant I wouldn't have survived. To remain completely trusting of the adults in my life, to laugh and play uninhibitedly when i was hurting and betrayed inside, would have been impossible.

My journey is to try and recover the child that had to hide away when she was 10 and to try and coax her out again, persuade her it is safe now, that there is nobody at home who is going to hurt her or attack her, that she can laugh and play again; that she is in a safe place where she is loved and wanted. I know this on a rational level, but emotionally i think i still feel scared and mistrusting even of DH which is mad as I know he has my best interests at heart.

I so want to be able to giggle and laugh and play with my children instead of always being in my stern, anxious, cross, adult self. But it is so hard. I feel trapped in a place i don't want to be anymore but i don't know how to get out.

oneplusone · 24/04/2009 12:51

smithfield, i can relate to feeling I am suppressing my caring side. I know i have a caring, generous, giving side but like you, i think it started hiding away and not coming out after it got trampled on and used and abused and unappreciated too many times. Partly of course by my old family and also by having made the wrong sort of friends who i have now realised are toxic and who i no longer see. Of course i didn't realise at the time that the people i was surrounding myself with were toxic and that they would just abuse my kindness and generosity and like you I too became hard and stopped being generous and giving and kind as i would have actually liked to be and was true to my real nature. I have now eliminated most of the toxic people that were previously in my life, apart from my 2 sisters. I can't seem to bring myself to cut them off, I suppose there is a teeny tiny amount of real feeling there which must be why i cannot cut them off. Althogh i think things are heading that way with my youngest sister who does not seem able to find the time or inclination to even send me a short text. I called her last around a month ago and i haven't contacted her since as i feel it's up to her now and she hasn't contacted me at all.

oneplusone · 24/04/2009 13:02

And another thing people talked about recently was their dads making them feel creepy. Well I can relate to that as well. My dad was never sexually abusive but he just always gave me the creeps, even when he was being 'nice'. And DH from the first moment he met him felt he was creepy and so did my middle sister's DH. He is a creep. But I hate him a little tiny bit less than my mother because there were 2 moments in my life that i can remember when he really seemed to show care and concern for me, i felt he was seeing me, the real me, and also he was a good father until I was around 10. I can't even say that much about my mother.

roseability · 24/04/2009 14:06

Oneplusone - I too sometimes feel violent rage towards my parents. When I see my mother, I feel repulsed by her physically and mentally. I do look like her as she is my grandmother, and I dread that. Not because of vanity or because she is ugly but just because of she she is. Any time she has given me one of her cold, fake hugs it makes me shudder.

I have recurring dreams where this violent hatred pours out and sometimes I physically attack them. Beat them into nothing and annihilate them. I would never do this in real life, so my subconscious is processng these taboo feelings that have to be supressed.

This shocks me. I am not a violent person and I don't feel that way towards anyone else in my life. When I was suffering extreme anxiety after DS was born, I did have urges to lash out at him. Whilst this is wrong, it is not to do with my nature but how desperate I was feeling at times.

So why do we feel this way? I think to feel that depth of hatred, you have to of loved someone deeply. We have suffered the ultimate betrayal from the people we loved most as children. Thus the depths of our feelings at the other end of the spectrum. I want to get to a place of complete indifference. No hatred or desire for revenge but complete indifference.

I feel this would signify my lack of feelings for them more

PinkyMinxy · 24/04/2009 21:10

Smithfield I think I should talk to him about it.My friend said the same last night when we were out. She is one of the few people I have confided in, and obne of the few people I don't feel utterly paranoid about. When I go out socially I worry so much about what I have said/done/my general demeanour. It makes me feel guilty becuae I feel so self absorbed- but I am not, I care a great deal about people-I just live in constant fear of offending someone.

My mother often says to me 'you used to be such a kind, caring person, I don't know what happened'.

Well I think I am still kind and caring. It's just that I have been taken advantage of so many times, it is hard, as you say, to have any trust.I feel that my parents and my siblings abused this aspect of my nature horribly. It made me quite cold at times.

RE changing the locks- yes we changed the locks, but I let her in. I was cleaning the front room window st the time so couldn't really pretend I wasn't home. She offers me her cheek. This is deliberate. She has always complained about one of my Aunties doing this to her, and how it offends her, so she does it to me. Then she is all over my children. Pawing them, trying to make them cuddle her. Scrutinising them, if they are grubby or have any kind of blemish, so she can say 'does your mummy not wash you/brush your hair/take care of you. She nitpicks at my DD1 constantly. She hates interacting with her- it is all too much effort- it is my DS she wants her new 'golden boy'. But she just invites herself to my house and acts as if I am barely there. She thinks she can do as she pleases with my children- as if she has a right to by virtue of being my mother. I can't stand her, but I cannot ask her to leave. She came to my house to show me that she can. She said on leaving thta she won't do it again- not in a apologetic way, just as a statement- as if to say, "I have proved my point, I won't need to do it again'

Oneplusone your comment about your sister's lack of contact made me feel guilty. Not that you are anything like my siblings, but I have made vey little contaCT with them, and I feel guilty. But thye are not good for me.

BopTheAlien · 24/04/2009 22:47

Have had a bit of a breakthrough tonight. Something in me feels safe, or at least safe enough to say to my "family" (in my head, I don't feel the need to say it to them in RL) that they will never win: it doesn't matter how hard my life can be at times (and though it is hard in many ways still, already it's not hard all the time any more, not like it used to be), I will never capitulate and become like them. I think I've had this underlying fear since DS was born that the not being able to cope aspect of things would overtake me completely and I'd end up so ragged and desperate that I would become like them - child hating and child blaming and making him feel as bad as they made me feel. But however much I sometimes lose the plot, I'm not like them, and I will never go over to their side. My DS has a place deep, deep in my heart that I never had in theirs. I don't have anything to prove to them, because I reject them at a profound and fundamental level. I think this is what my mother is now intuiting a bit, if a woman like her can intuit anything, and it's why she's upping the ante a bit and trying a little tiny bit harder to reach me. She wants to win me back over to their side. But although in the past I had to be on their side because I was their "creature" for such a long time, in my heart I was never, ever one of them. I've always said that when I met my DH it was like I finally met someone from the same planet, from my tribe - having always felt such an alien with my own family, all three of them. They made me feel I was the one who was wrong to be different from them, that they were the normal ones - but by God, I know that I amd my DH have something, have a kind of love they will never even guess at, they don't even know this kind of real love exists. Poor sad miserable bastards. This may well read as a rather surreal, incomprehensible bit of a rant - but I know there's truth in it, however weird the expression of it is.

OPO, your posts today have really moved me, I really feel for you. I think we felt a very similar way - being fed to the lions, yes, exactly. And about your mother standing by and allowing you to suffer because it suited her agenda and got her off the hook - yes, yes and yes. It is so very, very cold and cruel, the very opposite of how a mother should behave. They are not mothers in their hearts if they can act like that. I am really sorry too about the stuff you're going through with your therapist. I would love to find some words that would be of some use to you in this situation but I suspect it's a process you need to go through and somehow find your own way through - I know how exhausting it is to have to pick yourself up and start over again when you thought you'd got somewhere; but maybe it's also about deserving (one of my favourite words/themes) - you need to get to a point of really feeling you deserve a caring, compassionate therapist who will make you feel like you really matter to her/him. (If that is the kind of relationship with a therapist you want. I know it's special for each of us.) Anyway, it's obvious to me you deserve to have the support and caring you need to move forward, and you are so committed to trying to make sense of things and coming through to the other side that I hope it's not too long before you can move on this, whether you keep working with your existing therapist and try and resolve things with her, or try to find another one.

Smithfield - don't know if I should still be making reference to the thing with your father - but it still sounds dodgy to me. As well as the power thing, the physical domination which is very worrying (why would a man need to prove his physical prowess against a little girl, his own daughter? actually I might be talking about my own father there, though more in a mental domination sense...) - but it also seems worrying in a sexual sense if you were at that pre-pubescent stage. I just know it made me feel uneasy when I first read your account; I suppose 8/9 is better than 10/11 in a way, in terms of sexual development not being as advanced, but.. well, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn as it were. I do realise it's a lot to do with my own relationship with my father. For me it was similar to what others have talked about - no real sexual abuse as such, but something very, very wrong, all the same.

Pinky - your mother just doesn't see you, does she? Totally wrapped up in herself. It's awful not to exist as a real person to your own mother/parents (I speak from experience there too....). Just feel so sad thinking about all the emotional blackmail, the way they make us feel we're the cruel, hurtful, neglectful ones, the love they deprive us of that we need.... but it's better to be able to see this stuff and fight against it at least, rather than still being stuck in it.

ActingNormal · 25/04/2009 15:11

Feel like shite today and don't know why. Don't feel capable of much. Can't get words into the right order to reply to anyone. Feel like lashing out at DH and the kids. Feel like blaming DH for things although he has done nothing different. Feel useless and pointless. Feel like people think I am crap and don't do anything worthwhile. DS going to school in Sep so no 'babies' left at home. People will think I'm even more pointless then.

What is the point in trying hard to be any good at being a SAHM if I still won't feel respected and valued. It's only really 2 people in my life who give the impression they look down on SAHMs but my brain translates that to meaning everyone thinks I am crap.

My negative feelings towards DD have flared up again and I hate myself for that. I was thinking about who she represents symbolically from the past and at the moment I think she represents all the 'cool' kids who had everything and behaved 'entitled' and bratty and ungrateful and didn't realise what they had and they scorned kids who seemed a bit 'sad' because they had no comprehension that the 'sad' kids didn't have the same advantages as them - nice loving, safe feeling homes where they were listened to and noticed and valued and treated as really special and unique.

I want my children to have everything they should have so I shouldn't feel bitter. I look after/entertain them all day and as soon as they go to bed the cat starts climbing all over me and clawing at me (she doesn't do it to DH) and DH wants me to spend time with him which is understandable instead of going on the laptop but I feel like I have to entertain the kids in the day and then DH in the evening and what about me!

I know I am being utterly childish as I have 2 child free days in the week. I do stuff with them in the week but DH wants us to take them to places at the weekends as a family, understandable because he wants to spend quality time with us, but again I feel like I have to entertain the kids during the week and DH at weekends and it is still hard work taking them out even with DH there, I still feel like I'm doing most of the childcare stuff. I KNOW I am being childish and irrational because DH has just taken them both to Tesco with him to give me time on my own and I am STILL whinging!

It's got to be hormones hasn't it if I'm being this irrational? Even though it is wrong time of month for 'hormones'.

I want 'time off' but I don't relax when I get it because I feel guilty and feel that certain people think I'm lazy and don't deserve it. I think I should be able to do what I do without needing more time off. Other people have to work much harder than me.

I know I can do everything and I can work hard but I often feel like my brain feels paralysed and I'm moving through thick treacle and can't make myself feel like doing anything. I don't want to do anything.

I want to be on my own in the quiet and not have to be responsible for anything. I don't want to feel on my own in my responsibilities with all the pressure I feel from it. Most people handle it and don't feel it as pressure. Why am I such a drip sometimes!

I think it has something to do with feeling too responsible for every little thing when I don't need to feel I have to do something about every little thing. I wear myself out by feeling more responsibility than is necessary for my 'job'.

God this post is more gibberish-like even than normal! Sorry.

ActingNormal · 25/04/2009 17:07

Feel a bit better already, my moods can change so fast!

My friend texted me about how, before she had children, she had a high ideal of what sort of parent she would be, but feels disappointed with what she has become.

I feel she has hit a key point! And it probably applies to lots of us on here! We feel that our parents let us down so we are going to do a much better job and 'show them' and the world how it should be done. BUT maybe we take it too far and think we have got to be perfect otherwise we can't justify complaining about our own parents' failings. When we don't turn out to be perfect (because nobody is) we think we are crap.

Eg my DD makes so many demands all day and I refuse some of them because I just can't cope with it all! Part of the reason I feel so angry with her could be that I feel she is making me feel like a crap parent because I feel I have to do EVERYTHING to be any good but I'm having to sometimes say no.

I said to my friend that maybe we need to make a very short list of minimum requirements for the job of parent: take care of their practical needs for survival, teach them right and wrong, and do a few cuddles and make them feel like at least one person thinks they are great just for being themselves. And who cares if we do a load of 'educational' activities with them all day which require loads of effort! I'm going to buy that new book "The Idle Parent".

MuffinBaker · 26/04/2009 11:09

I need someone to talk to who will understand without a lecture or negative comments.

I am feeling calm as I know I want to die.

Sakura · 26/04/2009 13:24

MuffinBAker,
I haven't felt the calmness of wanting to die that you describe since my childhood.
In adulthood I have only ever felt the crazy, out of control wanting to die emotions. So I'm not sure I'm the best person to advise you.
But is there anything that you can think of doing to give yourself some perspective? You don't need to die. Your children need you so much, they really do, even though its sometimes difficult to believe that others are able to love you. Can you do something mundane that might help you think more clearly? Cup of tea, run a bath?

Sakura · 26/04/2009 13:26

Sorry, I've really have to go. Its really late at night here in Japan. I will log on first thing tomorrow morning.

smithfield · 26/04/2009 15:30

Muffin- are you still logged on?

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