why some people don't like to discipline their children in front of others

[thinkofanewname]

There have lots of threads about OPs who don't discipline their children and I just want to say why I feel so sensitive about it.

I split up from my partner when pregnant and then moved cities when 8 months pregnant. Consequently was really worried about meeting people, feeling isolated etc.

But found the opposite was true and made some great friends. One woman I became best mates with and our babies were always together. At 15 months I returned to work part time through obvious necessity. But around this time my son became very difficult. He started waking at 5, fussy eating and worst being aggressive to other children.

He was badly behaved, I totally accept that but I did EVERYTHING in my power to try to stop this behaviour and had sleepless nights over it. I even consulted a specialist. Fortunately it was just the terrible twos come very early and he outgrew it but not before I had been judged horribly by this 'friend' and others.

She said that he was this way because he didn't see his father (not that that was any choice on my behalf), because he went to nursery three days a week, etc She made me feel that he was a terrible child and I was a terrible mother. Anyway, she dropped me and I was really hurt. She also did this to two other people whose children became badly behaved which helped make me feel better.

But I developed my own way of discipling my son, I would take him off and speak to him and decided what I felt was acceptable and not acceptable behaviour.

Now he is a lovely well behaved 5 year old but I felt for a long time really judged and a bit damaged by that period. I felt really defensive on behalf of myself and my son. I wish at the time I had stood up to her and said 'he is only 18 months old and it is normal behaviour' but at the time I didn't know if it was normal as all my friend's children had yet to reach that stage.

Anyway even to this day, I bristle when someone tells off my son. I like to do it myself and feel this is the case with many parents. One of my friends who was also very judged by this woman and others because of her son's behaviour (and is also now a lovely 5 year old) is equally and more so defensive.

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you see the issue to me, the extremely large issue is "I bristle when someone tells off my son. I like to do it myself and feel this is the case with many parents."

I really don't like this attitude that comes across on here (ie MN not just this thread).

Because it makes your child an island, only responsible to you. It does not accept your child as part of a community or society.

I love community parenting. I am extremely happy for other people to tell my child off, in the way they see fit (I don't know any monsters / freaks / weirdos). It does my child good to appreciate there are values that are common across all grown-ups .. respect, manners, decent behaviour. And even if I'm there, if another adult speaks up to my child I am grateful.

Those people who hold themselves apart with their 'don't you dare correct my child / talk to my child' sadden me

A tricky one!

I have to confess that I stopped seeing a friend because her children were so badly behaved (culminating in one of hers biting one of mine). What got me wasn't the biting, but the fact that she didn't take any kind of action. I don't mean that your child is badly behaved or that you didn't take any action - I just mean that bringing up children is hideously difficult for everyone, and sometimes it's easier to avoid other children and their parents, especially if they have different ways of dealing with "bad" behaviour.

It sounds as if this woman was making unnecessary judgements if she was also passing comment on nursery/your child's relationship with his father, in which case there was no future in the friendship. Whatever she felt about those things, it's none of her business to say it to you.

But as to whether other people should discipline my children: yes they jolly well should. IMO, the only way children really learn what's okay and what isn't is by everyone getting at them and telling them what they should/shouldn't be doing. Sometimes other people get it wrong, but that's life. If you are the only one telling your son off, he will soon get the idea that it's just you being difficult ("nobody else tells me off if I do x, y or z, so it's just Mum going on at me again", seems to be my 6-y-o DS's understanding of this). I positively seek out other people to tell my DCs off, and I do not shrink from telling their DCs off either!!!

but the thing is sometimes there are issues that I regard as more important than others. I don't say anything if it is something I agree with or do it myself but feel there are some things I feel differently about.

I am just trying to explain why I and other people I know don't like to interfere with other people's parenting or for them to interfere with mine

Twiglett - I like the idea of "community parenting". This is what I was trying to say, only you said it better!!

I usually have a kind of agreement about what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't amonst my friends and then we will step in.

But I am trying to explain why some people are sensitive about things. My friend whose son's bad behaviour continued until he was about 4 got very defensive. If someone told him off in any way she would totally lose it with the other person. I could see this in her and although I never did this I could see why she behaved the way she did. She also felt damaged by the judging and felt that she was doing all that she could.

What twig and dottoressa said - I feel strongly about this, too.

At our pre-school we have a child who basically does not like ANYONE telling him what to do.
If you ask him to do something he will ignore it or tell you to F* off!
Today he did get really stroppy and was getting a bit violent, not good when you have little 2yr olds there as well.
The SN helper came to the rescue and scooped him up and held him asking him to calm down, calm down.
Then once he had calmed down then we gave positive praise to him.
He is "passive aggressive" and seems to want attention by being trouble.
I'm sure in time he will become a lovely member of the pre-school.
But it all stems from him NEVER being told off by anyone apart from his mum.

Dott .. I actually thought you'd said that last paragraph more eloquently than I had, and agree with you

I agree with you twig

I think much of what is wrong in our society today is due to the fact that decent people don't feel able to intervene or speak out when they witness wrong-doing.

newname, I understand you had a rough time and were shunned by somebody you thought was your friend. That is unfortunate and much more to do with her than you and your son. She sounds horrible, but you do need to get over that. Are you the kind of parent who will storm up to the school if your son gets reprimanded? Will you defend him to the end, even if you secretly feel he is in the wrong about something, because there is only you who can discipline him?

I would hope if a responsible other saw my kids eg. tormenting an animal, bullying others, throwing stones etc they would stop them. I would be happy with that.

thinkofanewname .. none of us are islands .. neither are your children .. I think your friend is wrong

many children, even mid-tantrum, will listen to a stranger's voice over and above their own parents

I remember when DS was wailing in a supermarket queue at about 2 years old, old woman behind me said quite sternly "Stop that noise, right now!" .. he did .. I was grateful .. good for her

I must admit I do agree with the OP. I think within reason the person should let the parent step in if they are there and deal with it in the best way they see fit.

Of course when there is no alternative it is a different matter.

the other day a mother was telling my son (6) off for not lifting the toilet seat up. I was a bit taken aback and didn't say anything for a bit but then explained to her that not long ago the toilet seat had fallen on his willy which was really painful for him and we decided that for the time being he should lift it up until he felt more confident. Of course she hadn't known that but if she had just minded her own business...

i think if you see other people speaking to your child in anything other than doting tones as a criticism of yourself, then you prob need a bit more support and perspective.

I dont like to 'discipline' my kids in front of others. i think its coz i dont like to 'make a scene' nor do i feel i want to have an audience when i speak to my kids about unnacceptable behaviour. its possibly insecurity on my part that i'll be judged for my values, or for my ability to transmit those.
dunno.
i do find myself removing me and my dc from a situation rather that attempting to have any kind of battle in 'public' tho.
so i kinda see what you mean.

I mean NOT lift it up

I agree NappiesGalore and it is easy to be over sensitive. But my son is now 5 and generally really good and I have no problem with others speaking to him if he is badly behaved.

But for example I have another friend whose 6 year old has always been really wild, bordering on Adhd. I think he has behavioural problems linked to hearing problems. They really struggle with him and he frequently does things like push over children and laugh etc.

When he does it to my son though, if they are there, I let them speak to him as this is what they do. I wouldn't drop them as friends because of it nor would I speak to him if they were there as I would feel that they would think that this was their job.

Maybe you could aask her if that is actually how she would feel? It could be interesting to talk it over with her, I think.

I think that it does depend on who is doing the telling. If it was someone I felt had a knowledge of my child, and had a good approach - no problem.

But recently someone at a party told off my 2 year old for what she later admitted was a pure accident, and I was in the room at the time. I stamped on that like I was putting out a forest fire. There is no way someone is going to tell off my toddler in a rude and mean way when she knows full well that what occurred was a pure accident.

I didn't get irate, but I was very firm, and said "Excuse me, x, I'll deal with DD. What is the problem?" She told me that DD kicked her DD (the birthday girl) as she got off the bouncy castle (erected in the corner of their small lounge in her flat ). When I asked if she thought it was a deliberate act, she said no, she thought it was an accident.

So, why did she shout at DD and tell her that kicking her DD was very mean and nasty? It was an accident. I still asked DD to say sorry to the little girl, but felt that it was my place to do so, not this other woman who does not share the same parenting views as me.

I do also believe in karma of sorts. Those people who judge have to experience the same.

Don't judge until you have walked in someone else's shoes as they say.

agree with grammaticus.
i think communication is vitally important.
no-=one can guess what anyone lese is thinking... not even people the love and live with. you just canbt. you have to ask.

dss has always had behavioural ishoos. and i think they stem almost entirely from him being a loving and deliciously curious and boistrous little boy and never being gioven any boundaries. i know his mother would be extremely defensive about him, but truth be told, she could have served his needs better. shes not thick, and her defesiveness would stem from her knowing that to be the case, no doubt. but the upshot of giving him everything he ever asked for and never giving him any boludaries to live within was that he was percieved to be an obnoxious little shit and widely rejected. for such a sociable and loving little boy that was almost unbearable...and the cycle continues...

its hard to stand back and say nothing if you think something liek that is going on.

where does respect for the child and respect for the parent divide?

I won't associate with people who express these types of attitudes in RL .. it isn't worth it!

which ones twig?

I think that it is a great shame that people don't feel that they can correct wrong doing. It is much better for society in general to have a collective responsibility IMO.

the attitude that screams "don't treat my children the way you'd treat your own children .. don't tell them off .. don't correct them, that's my job and not anyone else's"

the attitude that says "my child is different from yours, more sensitive, more precious. My child behaves like this because of good reasons and only I can deal with it"

I don't mind badly behaved children, I have a number of friends with children with SN and am happy to take care of children with diagnosed severe behavioural issues. But their parents know that I will do my best for them within my understanding and listen to the parent in terms of what works best. if I fuck up they will laugh it off, because guess what no child will break because of a misplaced telling-off.

It is censorious and makes me uncomfortable

OP I think you bristle because it makes you jumpy and insecure about your parenting. You think it is you and your ability to parent that is being told off. I think you know this, because you as good as said it in your OP.

If you see as that, and accept that nobody is attacking you they are just telling your son to sit up and stop putting baked beans on their chair then it should all be fine.

I like community parenting too. I tell off other children, though I usually call them 'darling' whist doing so, either because I can't remember their name or because I don't want them to cry.

As for mine, it's open house. So long as nobody is being shouty and mad.