why some people don't like to discipline their children in front of others

[thinkofanewname]

There have lots of threads about OPs who don't discipline their children and I just want to say why I feel so sensitive about it.

I split up from my partner when pregnant and then moved cities when 8 months pregnant. Consequently was really worried about meeting people, feeling isolated etc.

But found the opposite was true and made some great friends. One woman I became best mates with and our babies were always together. At 15 months I returned to work part time through obvious necessity. But around this time my son became very difficult. He started waking at 5, fussy eating and worst being aggressive to other children.

He was badly behaved, I totally accept that but I did EVERYTHING in my power to try to stop this behaviour and had sleepless nights over it. I even consulted a specialist. Fortunately it was just the terrible twos come very early and he outgrew it but not before I had been judged horribly by this 'friend' and others.

She said that he was this way because he didn't see his father (not that that was any choice on my behalf), because he went to nursery three days a week, etc She made me feel that he was a terrible child and I was a terrible mother. Anyway, she dropped me and I was really hurt. She also did this to two other people whose children became badly behaved which helped make me feel better.

But I developed my own way of discipling my son, I would take him off and speak to him and decided what I felt was acceptable and not acceptable behaviour.

Now he is a lovely well behaved 5 year old but I felt for a long time really judged and a bit damaged by that period. I felt really defensive on behalf of myself and my son. I wish at the time I had stood up to her and said 'he is only 18 months old and it is normal behaviour' but at the time I didn't know if it was normal as all my friend's children had yet to reach that stage.

Anyway even to this day, I bristle when someone tells off my son. I like to do it myself and feel this is the case with many parents. One of my friends who was also very judged by this woman and others because of her son's behaviour (and is also now a lovely 5 year old) is equally and more so defensive.

As a single parent, I too am a fan of community parenting. If there are 2 people saying - no, this is not acceptable behaviour - thats twice as powerful as just me.

The theory of only the parent telling the child off doesn't work in the long run.

It is not helpful to the child, and it makes the parent feel resentful towards others who offer suggestions re appropriate behaviour.

Perhaps the parent thinks it is appropriate for their child to jump on the sofa, for example.

Another person may not find that acceptable, and may correct the child.

It is good for that child to find out that some people don't approve of jumping on the sofa; that Mum/Dad think it is OK, but other don't.

Because that's what life is like - you have to negotiate through it, adjusting your behaviour according to where you are and who you are with, and working out what is expected of you.

A parent is there to explain these differences, and help guide the child.

Not to criticise the other adult, and cosset the child into thinking that they have been hard done to if everyone else fails to provide a myriad of sofas, purely for the purpose of being jumped on.

I will always tell dd's friends off if they are doing something I think is inappropriate, as otherwise dd does get upset that it is ok for so and so to do it, and not her, and so then she becomes pretty unmanageable. But by the same token I am happy for dd to be told off by another mum. Most of the time it is not a "telling off" as such, it is in a nice, jolly tone along the lines of "please don't do that, it isn't nice/kind/you could get hurt." I would never assert table manners on them or anything, but by the same token I will not let them jump on dd's head (has been known to happen!). It teaches children that the boundaries and rules apply to all of them.

I would get cross if dd was being told off for something like "being soft" (same parent who's dd jumped on my dd's head), while head jumper gets no disciplinary action at all, or if she got screamed at for a very small thing, but thankfully the parents we know would not scream at another person's child, and she has only been told off by another when it is reasonable to do so. They get told off at school (all the time according to my dd! [grin), I don't see why another parent is any different really.

I think it is VITAL that children see other adults as figures of authority.
Picture the scene in a secondary school classroom:
Teacher trying to tell a child not to graffiti the wall/bully another child or whatever and the teenager says, "You can't tell me what to do, you aren't my Dad" or something along those lines ...
Fast forward to young adult who has no regard for laws or police etc because no one can tell him what to do ...
etc etc

I agree with Twig. Children need to learn they are part of a community and we all have responsibilities in that community.

My children usually behave impeccably in public because the thought of being told off in public or worse, being told off by another adult, will keep them in line.

At home they run rings around me but that's a whole other thread

Oh yes, dd is petrified of being told off in public in case the police are called by someone who saw her being naughty and then the policeperson taking her to jail! . Disclaimer: this info has not come to her from me!

It takes a village to raise a child.....trite but true.

thinkofanewname, I think your friend sounded like she was out to cause trouble and make you feel guilty about going back to work. I would not have like her telling off my children, by the sound of it.

I am a bit fifty fifty on other people telling off children tbh. It all depends on context and approach. If it is done firmly but with kindness that's one thing - a bit of practical support for the parent. But I don't always think the motives are so nice. Sometimes if a friend steps in to give her judgement tell off another friend's child, it can be a wind up, an unnecessary interference and not so supportive. I have experienced both scenarios, especially when my boys were toddlers.

tbh, I made a decision to avoid being with one or two of my friends and their children when my sons were younger because I did not find their attitudes helpful. I came to the realisation that I could have a better time with my sons if we were not part of large groups. And my sons were calmer too. I think you can get this competitive discipline thing going if you are amongst lots of other parents and sometimes you end up telling off your child for minor things, mainly to please other parents.

I also think that some parents (and their children) enjoy the drama of seeing another child get a good telling off from their parent in public and like the feeling of superiority. If I suspected this, I'd prefer to do most of the telling off/discipline in private - if my son was bad, I'd remove him from the situation, say sorry to the parent/child and tell them I would be sorting this alone with with my son. Especially relevant if the so called wrong-doing was possibly accidental.

I am fine about professionals - teachers, playworkers - telling off my sons and usually support their viewpoint as I trust their judgement and realise it is part of their job.

I like the phrase 'it takes a village to raise a child'. I think it is much healthier than everyone being an island and afraid to interact. It is very sad when you get a 4 year old saying 'you can't tell me off-you are not my mum' and thinking it is true.

I totally agree in general, but as I said before, I do think that we need to make sure that isn't a carte blanche for our children to be bawled out by anyone who sees fit.

In the example I gave, the young lady in question is quite unstable, and has an interesting parenting style, to put it mildly. I don't want her telling my child off.

99% of the people I know, I wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. I know them, I trust them, I see their parenting and know that even if I don't necessarily do things quite the same, they are acting in the best interest of my children.

I was helping at a church group on Sunday, and my friend was leading it, and her 5 year old was there. I asked her to do something, and she said she didn't want to. After asking her firmly twice, I said "X, I am not asking you as mummy's friend, I am asking you as your teacher, and if you don't put x away, I will look after it until the end for you. What would you like to do?" I felt completely at ease doing so, because I knew my friend trusted my judgement of her child's behaviour.

Out of respect, if I didn't know someone well, and I saw something I thought was either very inappropriate or dangerous, I would bring it to the attention of the parent. It is simply recognising that they are responsible for the upbringing of their child.

To the OP who doesn't tell her child off in front of others:
If your child hits another child and you don't respond by telling your child off immediately in front of the victim, then what message does that send to the child who has been hit and presumably knows that he/ she would be in big trouble if roles were reversed?

I would like to know what 'misbehaving' OP's DS was doing, which led to her good friend breaking contact with her, and what OP's reaction to her DS was at times of such behavior.

You can tell them off in a quiet way, there is no need to be aggressive.

I avoid contact with one mum because she won't tolerate anyone else telling off her child.
He is pretty awful, lots of hitting and biting, shouts shut up at adults if he is asked to do/not do something.

Her normal response is either "he's only a baby" (he is 5 1/2) or "aww you're tired aren't you pickle".

I'm pretty protective of my dd's. I don't like others telling them off if i am there and dealing with a situation, however, if i was not in earshot or simply not there for whatever reason, i would have no issue with another adult telling off one of mine if they were misbehaving.

the premis that other adults should be able to tell your children off should not be affected by the fact that there are rude adults out there.
If someone is aggressive and inappropriate to my child that is not acceptable - regardless of what my child has done. So examples of some twit wandering up and shouting randomly at your child is not an example of what is being discussed here

If another adult admonishes my child for poor behaviour I have no problem with that. Most times it will be done nicely and appropriately. It rarely happens but the times it did when they were small were helping to build a picture of what society expects - which is a good thing.

I also find it useful when DD is exposed to other peoples rules in their house. Why should that annoy me. One of my friends is a self confessed nut about table manners. MY DD has great table manners but this friend is a bit obsessed . She would constantly remind DD ( who is also much younger than hers) about how she holds her cutlery , uses her napkin etc etc.

I thought it was a great learning tool. DD learnt early that different people have different priorities and customs and they should be respected. I always told her that when she is in other situations she should be aware of how to behave accordingly.

All good life lessons.

( it was equally useful to the mum that when she is at my house she has to cope with her DD being allowed to help herself and get down when she is finished )

The thing I am grateful for is the strangers who intervene when DS is having a noisy tantrum and actually get him to shut up

likewise the nice people who manage to distract him when he is doign his best to drive me insane

Fascinating thread. I have been reading this with interest. DD is only 17 months and thus far has not made any public displays of naughtiness but I presume they are not too far around the corner. Being that she is my first child I assumed at the start of this thread that I would be sensitive if someone other than my husband or I told her off. Having read through peoples comments I see the importance of community parenting and hope I will be receptive to this should the occasion arise. Thanks ladies.

I think there are two groups of people.

There are the people who broadly share the same parenting outlook as you and have a similar idea of what kind of behaviour is acceptable and how it should be dealt with.

There are random people who may come into contact with your child at playgroup/at soft play/in the supermarket. You may or may not share their views on parenting, but being human they many comment on how your child behaves. I think you just have to use this as a learning experience. They might say something that finally makes the penny drop for your child that people don't like being pushed around/having their toys taken, or they might just be a good example of why its not nice to shout.

Both groups of people are useful, but your life will probably be more pleasant of you can engineer things so that you spend more time with the first group of people when you have young children.

Re: disciplining children in front of others, I think thats fair enough. I sometimes forget this, but you wouldn't discipline a 35 year old in the middle of the office, so why do it to a 3 year old?

Re "you wouldn't discipline a 35 year old in the middle of the office, so why do it to a 3 year old?"

Because 3 yr olds are not 35 yr old

More specifically, because 3 yr olds have the memory of a goldfish when it comes to discipline and "Remember when you pushed James down the stairs yesterday? No? Well, that wasn't a good thing." won't be effective.

And also because a 3 yr old needs to see the boundaries. Now. It is not OK to hurt other children, for example, and if he goes out of his way to do so, mummy will tell him so in front of all other kids.

I think the OP was saying that she prefers to do the discipline rather than others if she is there. Not that she wouldn't discipline her child.

Now I wouldnt mind someone telling DS off if I wasnt there and he had done something he shouldnt have.
If I was there too, then I would probably feel as though they had jumped in because they didnt expect I would deal with it and I would feel a bit funny about it (but can totaly see that this is me being sensitive rather than the truth!)

Where I do disagree with the community parenting theory is the fact that every parent has different rules and different boundaries and I would be very cross if someone told my DS off for something that I dont see as unacceptable.

Others wouldn't have to discipline her child if she did it herself.

I'm not saying don't discipline your child. I'm just saying, that as suggested by the OP, (and also referring to the thread title) its better to take them off to one side and deal with the problem quietly, as you would with an adult. We will have to agree to disagree, but I think its best to keep things as low key as possible. I can't say I always follow my own advice, but I find that making an example of a young child in front of other children just gives them a big fat 'naughty' label, whereas its more likely that they just didn't understand the rules. I don't believe 3 year olds understand all the ins and outs of social engagement.

Re "every parent has different rules and different boundaries"

Given that OP's good friend broke contact with her over her DS' behaviour, I think we can safely assume that the misbehaviour in question is not a minor case of 'different rules' like table manners.