crisis talks last night - think it is over

[regularlyoverwhelmed]

he wants to have sex with other people, he feels he didn't experience enough sexual partners when he was younger
he says he hasn't had an affair, but in an unconvincing way, with just too much of a delay between question and answer
he doesn't know if he wants to stick together and sort it out
he says he is still attracted to me, after a lengthy pause between question and answer
he says he "appreciates" all my efforts to spice up our sex life
he wonders whether we should talk again "next week"
I think I will ask him to leave, I think I've had enough, after 16 years of trying to support him and thinking we had something good together this is what he comes up with
fucking men!

I dont think you are being a fool, fwiw!

Kids put a whole different slant on things. I know for a fact that me and h wouldn't be together today if there were no kids involved.

Maybe it is a good thing that they make you try that bit harder to save/rebuild the relationship. If it still fails then you know that you have tried.

I think the anger is normal. I felt so much anger (and still do sometimes) and I channelled it all into my keep fit. I cant believe how fit I am now, and all thanks to h's affair!

Losing weight is normal also. Could give your self-confidence a boost and make you feel better about yourself! Just think about yourself for a change and do what you want to do.

Well I'm sorry for both of you. Because wanting an open relationship doesn't necessarily make someone the personification of wickedness: monogamy simply doesn't suit everyone, but too many people are pushed into thinking that only monogamous relationships are 'Real@ so they have a monogamous relationship for a while, get bored and stifled, have affairs behind partners;' backs etc while believing that the next partner will be The One.

But you do need to end this relationship as it is not working for either of you and you will both be much better when you are no longer trying to be a couple. Hopefully you will be able to become amicable co-parents.

thanks stirlingmum - I went to pilates for the first time in ages last night. I am determined to tone up and lose some weight now. I am looking a bit podgey in places and I need to feel good about myself now more than ever.

sgb - the man doesn't want an "open relationship" necessarily...I am not going to end this one just because he said some out of character stuff while drunk - do you think every man going through a mid life crisis and trying to deal with the issues that that throws up wants one? I don't think so. I've read a fair amount about male mid-life crisis in the last few days and I think what he is going through is not uncommon. I wouldn't want him to chuck me out for emotional turmoil I may or may not experience around the menopause for example. As long as he is willing to deal with it head on and try to sort out his feelings/needs/emotions with some externally qualified help I am going to sit it out. It's been 16 years and we have 2 kids. He is trying to do something that comes very unnaturally to him by facing up to all these emotions and if he will do that I will wait a while more.

If at the end of that he comes back and says, no, I've been through it and I know I want more partners then that's fine (well, obviously totally devastating - I've only had a taste of how devastating that might be yet, I know that now) he will be free to go and do it and I will pick up the pieces. I am not demonising those for whom open-relationships work. But one isn't for me.

i really need to remember not to make excuses for him though, and not to try to fix everything myself and let him off the hook

in the end it all comes down to taking responsibility, for himself, for us, for the kids. I won't do it all anymore

this is very confusing though

I have just found your thread after you looking after me.

I wish I could give you choc, a decent meal,a wine,whatever mat make you chill.

Chill and re read your story. Of course,ONE is one sided, that is our right, however re read yours, you are balanced.

Good luck, let me hep you like you did me x

thanks LiO - I hope I am managing to be balanced, and I hope I don't let myself get lost in the woods and not be able to see them for the trees

yes, he has said some good things, he seems to be willing to try, but only time and actions will tell

I need to be very careful not to get sucked in by it and start imagining he is doing things that are not actually happening, or that he is more comitted to change than he actually is (this would be my pattern)

he needs to start doing some proving, if he wants to continue, but that is the first thing he acytively needs to address - whether continuing is worth what I am asking of him

an interesting couple of months ahead

this is horrible - I am starting to get suspicious of every little thing

he is off to our home country tomorrow and he left a webpage up on his computer for the rail site there - so looks like he may not be going just to his parents city but planning to travel further. He has also been googling his ex gf (from 20 years ago) who lives in another city there...

there is also another woman around - she did some work for hiim in academic context a while back...he went out to an outdoor opera with her and some friends to celebrate her getting a contract for a novel she has written...I thought 'twas a bit strange at the time as he hadn't even mentioned her but apparantly they see each other quite regularly for drinks and chats about creative writing...he told me a bit about her last night but then seemed to get a bit tongue tied when I asked whether she hada partner...initially he didn't know, then some mutterings about a partner in japan

I hate being suspicious, but the way I see it I need to protect myself now. I don't want to start giving him all the benefit of the doubt only for my trust to be ripped away again

going back to this episode a couple of years ago at the conference - is it a biggie if your OH gets into bed with someone else but apparantly doesn't do anything???

I am also getting dubious as he doesn't have a 9-5 job and so I never really know where he is if he is not at home - he tells me he is going to the library but it turns out last friday when I thought he was there he was bar-flying it all around town, "thinking" he says...I don't have that tell tale sign of him being late from work...and I bet any woman he would hook up with won;t have a 9-5 either, that'll just be left to little old predictable wifey

oh I don't know if I can do this...

hang on here, he left all that around on the PC so it would be easy to find?

sorry, but, i think you need to listen to your gut on this.

no, I found it through his history actually the browser was open and I couldn't help it

he has mentioned wantting to talk to his ex about all of this, he has NO confidantes and so I guess he maybe thrashing around for one - I suggested our counsellor

I will ask again, just casually, whether he is planning to talk to her

I am so confused...I don't know what my gut is telling me tbh - one minute get him out it isn't worth the hassle, the other that he is going through some kind of crisis and I owe it to us all to sit tight at least for a few weeks after the shit hit the fan

'he has mentioned wantting to talk to his ex about all of this, he has NO confidantes and so I guess he maybe thrashing around for one - I suggested our counsellor'

WTF?

He knows his marriage is on the rocks and he's suggesting he use an EX as a confidante rather than a professional counsellor?

Are you seeing a counsellor on your own?

Because you need to. You need to figure out what is in all this for your and your family, what is worth working on and what is not.

Because he honestly doesn't seem to give a toss one way or another or he would be watching his every move for fear of losing hte lot of you.

don't bother talking to him about if he's going to talk to her.

it will just cause further upset if he says yes and you can't believe him if he says no.

and tbh from what you've written here you've had quite enough of that.

time to figure out how you can leave all this upset behind for your own peace and sanity by ringing a counsellor and going yourself.

you don't deserve this confusion and a professional can help you sort it out.

I have an appointment with our couples counsellor but not until 18th Sept and I reckon OH should probably use that one himself - I think he needs to satrt talking to someone other than me (or xgf )...I rang to try to get earlier appt for myself this week...she is on the NHS and the clinic is only on a thursday so it is tricky, will try again tomorrow

otherwise I suppose I could try to find a separate counsellor for myself sooner, privately...are they used to stuff like this coming out of blue I wonder

tbh I wouldn't even know what to look for - maybe will go talk to gp, he might be able to advise something, he has been very supportive in the past

[higher dose of meds might be useful]

ps meant to say last night expat - thanks for your advice, it was very helpful and non-hysterical [I NEED non-hysterical right now] - I have looked up a couple of counsellors in my area this morning and emailed them to see if they could see me shortly for some very focussed work - will see if they can

couldn't sleep so up early, OH down on sofa as his brother was staying last night and he didn't want to arouse suspicion by not letting him have spare room ffs why doesn't he try talking to him about it???

thank god for vibrators in the early hours when not able to sleep or stop thinking about relationship problems - they do help distract a girl, albeit only for a short time(TMI? - sorry )

You have already had lots of good support and advice on this thread so I won't repeat that.

I just wanted to say, you seem confused about whether DH sleeping in another womans bed is a "biggie".

Yes it is. Its bloody massive and not the actions of a faithful husband.

Vibrator eh? A girls best friend

ok, thank you - the way he told it you'd swear they were just sharing an umbrella! he takes this totally rational tone with me and I am actually quite liberal so end up thinking "oh, that's NOT so strange then" then I think about it later and go, hang on just one second...

yes, thank the stars for the humble rabbit - I'd be lost without mine

RWO - beware the rational tone, imo designed to headf* when talking about emotions etc

That's exactly what I used to get from my exH. He had a rational explanation for everything.

He was able to explain wanting to buy a bar with a worman he had met on an overseas business trip, (we hadn't been married long then}, taking various women out for dinner one on one, watching football in a hotel room with a male colleague and two girls from the country he was visiting - said girl then sent him photos and I think he may still be in touch with her and the list goes on.

Yes can't believe I waited so many years to get a rabbit

god CityLover your OH sounds totally unbelieveable - you poor thing - how long have you been split now?

mine is starting to make me quite cross now. He was out on a barfly mission all friday, had Sunday all to himself while I took kids out, was out at footie last night and in pub til closing, is going awy tomorrow until Sunday night and has just texted to ask if I want him home for kids bedtime tonight. Wanker! we used to do everything as a team, now he is just acting as though it's all my responsibility and his is just to swan around boozing and sporting. God you really see a different side at times like this don't you? Jumped up fucking teenager

(he does still do early morning shift, but only because I am off to work for 7.30am, this last weekend the early shifts were all me too)

I'm bloody knackered

His actions are telling you something: that he's not in this marriage anymore.

At all. He's left it already, that's why he can take off and not feel any compunction, sleep in bed with someone else, be all rational when he talks to you about confiding in the ex (seems perfectly reasonable to him, he's got no feelings left for this anymore), etc.

Please, please go and get some help on your own with this, no matter how hard you have to bang on the door for it.

You deserve better than this.

I agree with expat. The one (of many) useful perspectives I was able to get from my therapist/counselor during my marriage breakup was that (and I am paraphrasing here) you have to stop paying attention to the "words" coming out of their mouths. It is the actions and behaviors that are significant. If the words match the actions that's one thing. But if a person says one thing to you and then goes off and does the opposite, -that- is what you pay attention to. If the actions don't match the words, the words are meaningless in my experience. Good luck.

well, he came home when I let him know I didn't think that was on, and I went swimming - mmm, was lovely, did about 5 zillion more lengths than usual!!!

bought myself a new watch yesterday which I have needed for ages, have booked haircut for Friday and am looking forward to a few days without him now

it's true - that thing you both said about actions speaking louder than words...I am trying to ingrain that in my psyche so that when we next talk I will ask WHAT he has done rather than listen to his words so closely - he is a writer, and VERY good with words

he claims he is staying out because I told him I needed space...when I speak to him about it he does seem very confused, as though the bottom has/is falling out of his world...but as you say, these are only words

I am being extremely patient at the moment, but it will not go on forever and he is well aware of that, he knows the onus is on him and I've told him I want to talk after the weekend, though I think he'd prefer to wait til after his counselling session next week and that probably makes sense

thanks expat and greycloud so much - I will get through this, I will look after myself, I just feel I need to give him one final chance to wake up and realise what is most important to him. I am aware that may not be me and the kids and I am prepared to deal with that. I'm letting him do it his way at the moment, but he knows there is a timelimit. I've checked out the divorce and maintenance sites and am looking into the other money aspects. I will be going back to DD1's therapist to ask about how best to approach a potential breakup with the kids. I'm looking at property to rent while we either rent our house out or put it on market. I am trying to get an individual therapist for myself.

dwayne dibley - thanks for you message - it sounds like you have got a good 'un there. And thank you for saying that I sound like someone should in a longterm committed relaionship - sometimes I do wonder if I am just a deluded fool...well, only time will tell, and there isn't going to be too much more of that

greyclay sorry!

ROW we have been separated for two years, divorced for eighteen months.

He has moved on to a new victim partner and has just become a father again (he is no spring chicken) LOL

Actually seeing just those few things written down about him gave me a further wake up call!!

And I agree about actions speaking louder than words.

you sound like you are in a very good place now citylover, which is kind of inspiring!

my OH has just emailed me to say he wants to cut short his visit home, in order to come back and help organise things for the kids for the w/e eg taking them swimming, let me do my regular saturday morning things which I would have had to cancel otherwise. He reckons 4 days solo childcare might be too much for me(I guess he saw how tired I was last night) He also says he wants to come back as otherwise he'd be "just drinking myself
stupid in the old haunts while thinking masochistically"

a step in the right direction? shame he has got a marathon's worth to go...

not today ROW but in general yes.

How are things with you?